Help Me Understand - Killing vs. Hunting

[Vonderbach]

Has anyone here ever witnessed a sad deer or a sad squirrel? Can anyone sit here and tell me that a dog is no more emotional than a wild deer? Dogs have feelings, they can be sad, happy, jealous, etc. We assign value to these traits. We also show empathy towards similairites to our own condition. We have no feeling of remorse when crushing an ant because we cannot relate to its existence. Some will show regret when killing a cow, yet we still eat them for dinner. But I know of very few that could watch a dog die without tearing up, because dogs connect to us in numerous emotional ways.

 

[Southside Playa]

Also, I hope you all know what happens to Race Horses once they have outlived their usefulness. 20/20 did an expose on it a while back. Most them end up getting that same shot in the head that cows get, if they aren't rescued.

They are bred for sport, trained, treat like shid if they don't win, but people still line up and spend big $$$ to watch it. Their owners are usually rich and could give a shid about the horses or the little guys that ride them.

 

[oldschool]

People rationalize a lot of things because most people are filled with mixed premises and couldn't reason if it kicked them in the face.

While dogfighting IS barbaric a dog should NEVER be held to a higher moral standard than a human. It is completely irrational and a double standard to eat meat, whether you know how domestic food is raised or not, or if you hunt, and then on the other hand to throw someone in jail and ruin his life over dog fighting. No one thinks twice before they smash a fly, kill a colony of ants or give a horribly slow and painful death to a mouse in a mouse trap. You're either human or it is a lower life form that humans can use in any way they see fit PERIOD, end of story.

Don't even get me started on puppy mills or people locking dogs in their cars with the windows rolled up on hot days. Those are just as barbaric and cruel as dog fighting but people should not be going to jail for it. Those people should be ostracized by the public but they aren't.

FYI, I do hunt.

You can't tax dog fight. It's not politically viable, hence you shall not profit from it. Examples, prostitution, marijuana, revolution etc.....
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QFT.

 

[StromBusa]

Here is my take on the <hot button> subject.

Killing is when you lead the caged beef cattle through an automated butcher cycle ending their bored to tears existence so some peeps can eat steak "at arms length" by gettin it at the store "where it's made" ???

Hunting is gettin up early, grabbing your tuned up weapon, climbing through the wilderness for hours in the rain & or cold, and catching the glimpse of the deer's tail as he runs off because he heard you, perhaps gaining another year of "dodge car" and whatever else he likes to do. Then thinking what you could do better next time, and maybe you get lucky and use some of your resdsidual H&G genes to good effect.

Dog fighting, on the other hand, should only be arranged by dogs

 

[Vonderbach]

You're either human or it is a lower life form that humans can use in any way they see fit PERIOD, end of story.

Am I to assume from this that you consider dogs and dolphins to be no more valued than a common rodent or insect? If so, do you honestly believe that humans have no cognitive rival in the animal kingdom?

 

[teamorion22]

noone can make a dog fight. either they fight or they do not.
they only difference between killing others 'game' animals and dogfighting is that dog fighting is ILLEGAL. end of story. it is illegal and he shouldn't have done it, he got caught and went to jail. i like mike vick and i hope he ride the pine for some team that wins the superbowl just like byron leftwitch did last season.

2 or 3 years ago cockfighting was legal in Oklahoma. when they made it illegal it was a big fuss. it wasn't that long ago when dog fighting was legal.

PITA is a ludicrous group that lacks a grasp with reality

 

[JGoodson]

No its not the end of the story cause when they dont fight guess what happens.... Vick kills them!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LeDauz]

first of all i have to say i like both dogs(my dog holds the same stop in my heart that my busa does) and dolphins(they to sometimes and go kill something for no appearent reason than its possible to do so.)

but to compare hunting to dog fighting is just wrong. first of all because the dogs are breed and raised for fighting and know nothing besides fighting. hunting on the other hand doesnt breed and raised just to find something to kill(unless u count some hunters but still killing isnt the only thing they know).

thought i do like the ufc comment. though in a different way. but what this all boils down to is people are just naturaly drawn to voilence

proof that people are drawn to voilence
1. ufc everyone comes to watch someone get hurt to the point they can no longer continue fighting
2. tv movies there isnt a show, movie, or anything out there that someone isnt enduring pshyical or mental voilence.
3. if you ever hear someone say they are completey 100% agaisnt all forms of voilence ask them if they have kids and what they would do if someone would hurt their kids(i bet they would all fall into the pro volience catagory after that.)

dog fighting=volience; just not an aproved version of volience in some places thus evil and cruel

 

[JGoodson]

All of your proof you listed are things we choose. Dogs dont get that choice somethime. like someone earlier said any dog fight should be arranged by dogs

 

[Dino]

Okay, with all the drama about Michael Vick being released from prison, I am at a crossraods in my own judgment. I look at what happened and YES he violated the law. HOWEVER, since when does it make much of a difference to value a dogs life over other animals???

Yeah, I understand that dogs are typically domesticated & yes most of us have a soft spot in our hearts for them. But, hell there are too many strays running round any dayum way.

What about deer, fish, game birds, squirrels, rabbits, raccoons, & the sort?? Just because you pay for a license (that state governments get the $$ from)to wack them it is okay?? Guys, go out yearly & spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ to hunt. This guy funds an operation to fight dogs of a breed that most people don't like anyway. He loses his freedom & income for a few years, and then the Fed kill the remaing dogs anyway. You have people that kill people & get less time or even fuggin probation.

SOMEHOW THIS SHID JUST SEEMS WRONG IN MY MIND. END OF THE DAY WHAT MAKES DOGS SO SPECIAL.

NOTE: I am not being insensitive to dog lovers. I have had several of my own & I loved them dearly. I am just trying figure out if I am the only one thinking this way.

I don't think it has as much to do with the animal being a dog. Cockfighting is also illegal. Also Vick killed some of these dogs with his bare hands, not for sport, not for food, simply because they did not make the grade. It was a barbaric act that speaks to who he is as a person.

 

[VaBusa]

Dog fighting is considered animal cruelty. There will be arguments for hunting being cruel too, but that can be picked apart and hunting is not nearly as cruel as mass-processing our meat supply, which is mostly ignored by the masses that consume meat, but I digress...

That's the difference, you're allowing dogs to be bred and exist solely to kill other dogs. The things done to these dogs to make them "fight" are cruel as is the suffering fighting dogs undergo in their short lives. Animal cruelty is illegal, as it should be...

 

[ibified]

difference between dog fighting and UFC: the guys who fight in UFC are doing so by CHOICE. they are also being compensated monetarily for doing what they do.

Whoever said something about dogfighting being okay when the dogs were the ones arranging it was dead on.

As for leaving animals in a car on a hot day with the windows up...I do it all the time. I also leave my car running with the A/c wide open when I do.

I have no qualms about killing an animal for the sake of eating it. Its what they're there for. I DO, however, have issues with killing something for their fur, for fun, for sport, etc. Even if it's a mouse in a mouse trap, I think it's cruel. You have a problem with mice in your house? get a cat. Dont like bugs in your house? Get screens for your windows.

The "its only an animal" argument for dog fighting sickens me. We're only animals as well.
And last I checked, I think most animals are FAR better creatures than humans. You dont see dogs or cats screwing one another over for a promotion. Ive been owned by a LOT of pets in my life, and will be owned by many more im sure. I'd give a lot of $$$ to meet and befriend people who have the honesty and compassion of most of those animals.

 

[JGoodson]

difference between dog fighting and ufc: The guys who fight in ufc are doing so by choice. They are also being compensated monetarily for doing what they do.

Whoever said something about dogfighting being okay when the dogs were the ones arranging it was dead on.

As for leaving animals in a car on a hot day with the windows up...i do it all the time. I also leave my car running with the a/c wide open when i do.

i have no qualms about killing an animal for the sake of eating it. Its what they're there for. I do, however, have issues with killing something for their fur, for fun, for sport, etc. Even if it's a mouse in a mouse trap, i think it's cruel. You have a problem with mice in your house? Get a cat. Dont like bugs in your house? Get screens for your windows.

The "its only an animal" argument for dog fighting sickens me. We're only animals as well.
And last i checked, i think most animals are far better creatures than humans. You dont see dogs or cats screwing one another over for a promotion. Ive been owned by a lot of pets in my life, and will be owned by many more im sure. I'd give a lot of $$$ to meet and befriend people who have the honesty and compassion of most of those animals.

+100000

 

[oldschool]

Am I to assume from this that you consider dogs and dolphins to be no more valued than a common rodent or insect?

The only thing you can assume from what I posted is exactly what I posted and nothing else. So, allow me to address your question. Of course some animals have more value to humans than other animals, however, to keep it in perspective, that value is how we can use, consume, or benefit from in some way, shape or form at the expense of the animal, creature, whatever. And something having value does not mean the valued things stature is raised into the realm of human morality.

If so, do you honestly believe that humans have no cognitive rival in the animal kingdom?

I can't speak for other people, especially some I've met in my time on this planet, but I can give a resounding yes for myself.

When flipper comprehends liberty, private property, and freedom give me a call.

 

[WHITEtt]

We are given licenses to hunt deer, birds, squirrel and such. We are not given licenses to beat such animals to death, or make them fight each other, living each moment of their life in "fight mode" because they don't know when their retarded master is going to throw them into a pit and they have to find the energy to survive.

Killing a dog may be a very sensible thing to do though, depending on the situation. If the animal is infected with something bad like rabies, or is dying and in a lot of pain then quickly and with as little pain as possible end the animal's suffering.

 

[Projekt]

A competition where two animals are made to fight until one succumbs to fatal injury (which might take days to happen) and then profit financially from the event as other bet on who's animal is stronger to supplement your already multimillion dollar income... naw... no difference..

One thought.....UFC.
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Another thought: Pro-Boxing

 

[Vonderbach]

The only thing you can assume from what I posted is exactly what I posted and nothing else. So, allow me to address your question. Of course some animals have more value to humans than other animals, however, to keep it in perspective, that value is how we can use, consume, or benefit from in some way, shape or form at the expense of the animal, creature, whatever. And something having value does not mean the valued things stature is raised into the realm of human morality.

How do you discern the difference in the value of a mentally challenged individual and a search/rescue K-9? While the mentally challenged person is indeed human, I would posit that their value to mankind is far less than that of a working K-9. If value is all that matters, what is keeping us from disposing of these people?

When flipper comprehends liberty, private property, and freedom give me a call.

Who is to say that they don't? Obviously they don't interpret human values, but how are we to say that they don't have their own unique and equal set of values? It has been theorized that dolphins and especially some whales may exceed our intellectual capacity. Are their lives any more or less important?

I suppose I should get to the point. What causes you to consider human life more valuable than other animals? What specific trait?

 

[MPH 200]

The difference - I eat what I kill.

Could you kill this face... Michael Vick could & did with his bare hands, electricity, beatings, gunshots ...

 

[Southside Playa]

The difference - I eat what I kill.

Could you kill this face... Michael Vick could & did with his bare hands, electricity, beatings, gunshots ...

Dude, thank you for invoking emotion into my thread. All the women & half the men that see this will be like AWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!

Someone in China maybe thinking ........... MMMMMM Lunch !!

 

[ibified]

The difference - I eat what I kill.

Could you kill this face... Michael Vick could & did with his bare hands, electricity, beatings, gunshots ...

I could kill that face humanely if it was in pain, sick, etc. On more than one occasion I have held one of my animals in my arms while the vet gave it a shot to end its suffering. otherwise...killing it just because it didnt fight well? yeah, I hope folks that do that kind of thing go straight to hell. Furthermore, I hope their first day in hell lasts 10,000 years, and that its the shortest one.