How many of you know??????

[kml]

"mid corner max transversal grip of rear tire, compressed suspension, rapid acceleration, part of the transversal grip transmits longitudinal acceleration force.

at this point,

chain pull varies between max friction and zero friction provoking fluctuations of rear suspension, in corner variations in attitude provoke variations in trajectory and therefore in radius of curvature, changing rake angle producing discontinuous centrifugal force.

The tire subjected to steep load variations alters slip and drift angles."

Condensed from, Motorcycle Design and Technology by Gaetano Cocco, page 70, paragraphs 3 to 6 under highsiding

I'm assuming no one is going to disagree with Mr. Cocco, so what do I win?

cheers
ken

 

[MPH 200]

I dunno, I run Michellins so I've never had a high side

I run Michelin slicks on my racebike & PP 2CTs on the Busa. No highsides for me, but I have low sided a few times in races.

Had a real close highside once on my RC51, back tire spun up & stepped way out coming out of a corner on the track, I pinned the throttle & dirt tracked through it. If I would have let off, I would have had a free flight.

Good corner drive is when I am lifting the front wheel about 3"-6" w/ the throttle pinned exiting the corner.

 

[GregBob]

"mid corner max transversal grip of rear tire, compressed suspension, rapid acceleration, part of the transversal grip transmits longitudinal acceleration force.

at this point,

chain pull varies between max friction and zero friction provoking fluctuations of rear suspension, in corner variations in attitude provoke variations in trajectory and therefore in radius of curvature, changing rake angle producing discontinuous centrifugal force.

The tire subjected to steep load variations alters slip and drift angles."

Condensed from, Motorcycle Design and Technology by Gaetano Cocco, page 70, paragraphs 3 to 6 under highsiding

I'm assuming no one is going to disagree with Mr. Cocco, so what do I win?

cheers
ken

Mr. Coco is loco!!! "discontinuous centrifugal force"??? I couldn't calculate the difference between "transversal grip" and post nasal drip. Mr. Cocco could buy me a beer because I don't even know the difference between a free bottle in front of me and a pre-frontal lobotomy.

Next time you are at the track, quote all that sci-fi babble to another rider. Since nobody knows what it means, it's really not much good. I can't name a single physicist who could ride worth a crap. From what I've heard, Einstein could barely drag a knee!!

Now back to Tuf's question...A good answer is one you can easily demonstrate to another rider and one that will actually help that rider ride better.

 

[StromBusa]

Available traction and air pressure, inappropriate braking all have an influence on the outcome, I've only categorized turns as "made it, low sided, or high sided" Low side = laydown, Highside=crash. Never highsided on pavement, & don't want to!

 

[kml]

Mr. Coco is loco!!! "discontinuous centrifugal force"??? I couldn't calculate the difference between "transversal grip" and post nasal drip. Mr. Cocco could buy me a beer because I don't even know the difference between a free bottle in front of me and a pre-frontal lobotomy.

Next time you are at the track, quote all that sci-fi babble to another rider. Since nobody knows what it means, it's really not much good. I can't name a single physicist who could ride worth a crap. From what I've heard, Einstein could barely drag a knee!!

Now back to Tuf's question...A good answer is one you can easily demonstrate to another rider and one that will actually help that rider ride better.

Your inability distinguish between, transversal grip and post nasal drip, a lobotomy and a cocktail, and your difficulty in multisyllabic comprehension leads me to the obvious question:

Are you a Kawasaki ZX14 rider?



cheers
ken

 

[skydivr]

Ok, I watched the videos - from the street videos it appeared in both cases the rider broke rear traction by jerking the throttle too hard causing the rear tire to spin, and as soon as he let off, the rear tire regained traction, which caused the bike to flip (highside). In both cases, the front tire was still on the ground which caused the 'snap'. In the other video (successful powerslide), the entire bike, both front and rear were in a powerslide; in that case the rider kept the rear wheel spinning with the front wheel off the ground, so there was no 'snap' when the rear tire regained traction.

From watching the video, it appeared both the highsides happened because the riders did not smoothly roll on the throttle but popped it which caused the rear tire to spin out from under them. Now, how to prevent it? Sheeeeit - I'd never try to take that turn that fast to start with!

Ok Jedei Master, before this Padawan digs himself too deep in a hole, I will shut up the answer will be very interesting.

 

[raydog]

OK, now that I'm done laughing at KML's response....great question to ask Tuf. Without getting too complex, a highside for me means after a loss of rear traction, a sudden gain of traction/grip. That action of the motorcycle usually has a catapulting effect on the rider. It does not necessarily occur exclusively in a corner enter/exit situation either. Oil, water, avoiding another bike, etc. can also provide a potential highside environment.
Could go on but I want to hear others' input. Doyle

 

[raydog]

I read your question again so I gotta add the corner context.....as you arrive at the corner...off throttle, braking, body adjustment prior to direction change, ID of corner exit(look out past where you are), gentle on throttle transition, cross apex, increase throttle gently but assertively, then full throttle as bike approaches near vertical. Repeat 5000 times until competent.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

It even happens to the best of them, about 55 seconds into this,

- Mat Mladin AMA motorcycle racing[/url]

 

[Busa1166]

Shows I don't know squat (as suspected), so please enlighten with your wisdom.

I was following someone yesterday (with video) who went into a turn faster than he could handle; the moment he grabbed brakes (front and back), his bike started heading for the outside and for a sec didn't think he was going to be able to pull it off. I was behind him - my entry speed was a little slower, but I had a better lean and cracked throttle to increase once IN the turn...my bike turned inside his at a higher speed, and mine was heavier (Busa vs. Katana 750). Was interesting learning point as I had my video camera on him the whole time.

you ghosted Katana in a turn an filmed it???


where is the vid

 

[Busa1166]

Is this the way to take it ??????

 

[Tufbusa]

OMG GregBob, you and ken are both as goofy as pet coons!

I'm still giggling and I know not why!

You guys are all making this mutch to complicated. I can give you a hint, what makes the diffenence in a good corner drive and a highside has nothing to do with what happens prior to the apex.

We'll play with this a little more and I'll share "MY" answer tomorrow!

 

[skydivr]

you ghosted Katana in a turn an filmed it???


where is the vid

Let me see if I can figure out how to convert it. The guy riding the Katana was not very skillful (I'm certainly not). Believe me, nothing that impressive. We certainly wern't going THAT fast just a sharper turn than expecting.

On top of it, I KNOW I twitched when I saw him head for the yellow line (I was pretty close to his tail and it spooked me).

Me likey these kinda threads much better than some of the others I've been posting in lately.

 

[Pardini]

Okay you throttle twisters, things have been a little quiet on here for the past few days so I have a question for you?

How many of you know the difference between a good corner drive and a highside?

Let's see a discussion here!

The question is do I know the difference. My answer is I do.

 

[mjn]

My answer would be smooth (ie; not hamfisted) throttle application starting just prior to the apex and continued smooth application throughout the corner..... on nicely warmed up skins, of course...

 

[dadofthree]

It's tomorrow here ...

 

[mike1180]

How many of you know the difference between a good corner drive and a highside?

The answer to the question as asked is:
In a good corner drive, you make the corner, smooth and precise.
In a highside, you most likely crash, or in the least get bent out of shape.
That is the difference.

As to the cause of of each, which might be what you are looking for:
A good corner drive is caused by having, and applying the proper skill and judgment to make the corner.
A highside is when the rear wheel loses traction and drifts out of the line of travel of the motorcycle.
When the slipping rear tire suddenly regains traction it is not moving in the same plane as the rest of the bike.
This causes the motorcycle to straighten up so quickly the rider is almost always thrown off, (on the high side) even at low speed.
The initial traction loss may be caused by a rear locked wheel due to excessive braking or by applying too much throttle when exiting a corner.

 

[Busascreemer]

Isnt "high side"....when you loose tire grip......and then get it back as fast as you lost it??...and at an "instant"...so there is basically no time to react?

 

[mike1180]

Isnt "high side"....when you loose tire grip......and then get it back as fast as you lost it??...and at an "instant"...so there is basically no time to react?

A highside describes the bike and rider pitching upwards, as opposed to a lowside which is having the bike slide out from under you.
Both are usually used to describe a crash.
If you don’t crash it is just getting bent out of shape, or a wobble or whatever you want to call it.

BTW: High speed wobbles are caused by using 90W gear oil in the steering stabilizer, eh Tuf?

 

[Tufbusa]

The question is do I know the difference. My answer is I do.

Well don't be shy, share your knowledge base with your friends!

The answer is so simple (But oh so true) it's going to make you all go "Damn, why didn't I think of it that way"!