How Soon Can I Swith To Synthetic
- Thread starter rybraun
- Start date
Geeze
They also use over 630 ppm of overbased magnesium and 250 ppm of sodium for even more detergency , something once again you did not know about and how additives can work synergisticly together. More to that effect below .
Obviously you thinkyou can judge a book by it's cover .
Your not impressed by the Synergyn yet you know nothing about it's base oils , the ashless anti-oxidents , corrosion inhibitors amine/phosphates not seen through analysis and you have never used it ...... just where do you think that virgin analysis you posted came from ? [/QUOTE]
UN-USED Synergyn 5w-30, below, (looks like Exxon Mobil oil). It is a group 4/5 oil as they state. Also there website leaves much to be desired. They do not even state the anti-wear adds, dispersants, rust inhibitors etc. Post the spec’s it was tested too. At around $6.XX per qt it is not bad, not great. If you think these numbers are good, well so be it. I do not .
I also believe their Chief Chemist at Synergyn worked in Amsoils' lab a long time ago.
Iron 1
Silver 2
Aluminum 2
Potassium 1
Moly 74
Boron 111
Magnesium 8
Calcium 2860
Phos 1143
Zinc 1290
Si 2
Vi @ 100c 18.7
ISO 18/13
Ferrous Debris 7
Paricle Volume 2
TBN 9.74
VI: 156
Boron has 4 additives it can be:
1. phosphorilated borates
2. amide ester borates (pure boron in ester base)
3. potassium borates
4. succinimide borates as dispersants
Most leves in oils (as a dispersant) is around 80 to100ppm.
] Also , in playing chemist you say one oil uses too much boron ? How do you know ? Is this your proffesion and does that oil maker know they should reduce the amount of boron in their oil ? [/QUOTE]
I am not a chemist. Only a Mech. Design Eng, but see what I posted above. The ZDDP levels (along with others) is based on the API standards, not the manufactures. It is like ZDDP in the future will not be used as much.
Boron works in the sliding and shearing areas of machines, such as piston rings and pistons, and in the case of gear lubes, the shearing forces from gear teeth. To much is like having too much Moly in the long run or have ash in the oil.
I knew you were not running 30wt in your bike because of the fact you spoke of analysis and brand car . I went to your site and saw where the lab even said your oil thickened out of grade yet you say it's A-OK . Bunk , TBN was 3.3 and time to dump was before the total miles you ran and at your site I saw where you claim Mobil uses TMP Ester in the Supersyn . [/QUOTE]
It (my oil in my Lexus) is 100% FINE based on:
1) The TBN still is 100% fine. You can go down to a TBN below 1 and be ok.
2) The oil thickened yes but if you LOOK it thicken only thickened by 7.8% over 12,200 miles…. shocking how HUGE the value this is.
3) It is ok based on the NOX, OXD and TAN values (and TBN).
4) I removed the oil since it was 1-year old and the oil was drained with 12,200 miles on it.
Wrong again , they are using PAO's and their Synesstic Alkylated Napthalenes which offer better hydrolytical stability and premium seal compatability . Their oils don't thicken out of grade like Amsoil and neither does the 30wt Synergyns . [/QUOTE]
Yes, you are right. Thank god you spotted that error. They use Alkylated Naphthalenes along with Coconut oil esters (in there Tri-Synthetic) oils. I will have to update since I do not follow Mobil anymore since I feel there marketing is a little off. They tried long drains back in the day now they are for round #2. Then there EP oil is lacking in Phos (below 900ppm). But we can save that for another day.
Here is what I know (or some of it).
Trimethylpropane (TMP) esters and pentaerithyritol esters (PE, DiPE) are two most used polyol esters.
The butylate and adipate esters are the most used di-esters.
IN mobil's case, they use the timethylene (TME) tri-esters, but they are still polyol esters
PE's are generally used in small amounts to balance out seal swell characteristics, function as a carrier for oil additives and provide some additional solvency ....
The true, ester based synthetics like Motul use the less expensive, lower viscosity, di-basic acid esters, ie diesters. Amsoil also used diesters from 1972 until about 1980, when they went to the blended PAO/Ester basestocks.
PAO basestocks can use the same additive chemistries developed for petroleum oils, they are more stable in the presence of moisture and their effect on seals is more benign. The advanced PAO's have higher VI's than do almost all esters and their low temp properties are noticeably better.
Here is my last GXSR with Amsoil oil oil.
http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/lexus/oil/oil_test.pdf
There is no one best oil in the world here. But, I or me, like to spend my $$$ wisely too.
I want high Ca along with high ZDDP and LOW moly in my group 4 or 5 oil. Based on the past oil tests from the oils you stated, at least for me, they are average at best; but the price is otherwise. I can buy an oil that perform inline with your "Silkolene Pro4 15w-50 used oil analysis" and still have more Ca, higher TBN, less moly (which is better), less Si, lower TAN (based on your low TBN), and other lower wear numbers.
But ha, I am glad you keep Silkolene in business....
PS. I like it when people say I am not posting. The closed door attitude is great.
<!--EDIT|gsxr1100
Reason for Edit: None given...|1123270068 -->
They also use over 630 ppm of overbased magnesium and 250 ppm of sodium for even more detergency , something once again you did not know about and how additives can work synergisticly together. More to that effect below .
Obviously you thinkyou can judge a book by it's cover .
Your not impressed by the Synergyn yet you know nothing about it's base oils , the ashless anti-oxidents , corrosion inhibitors amine/phosphates not seen through analysis and you have never used it ...... just where do you think that virgin analysis you posted came from ? [/QUOTE]
UN-USED Synergyn 5w-30, below, (looks like Exxon Mobil oil). It is a group 4/5 oil as they state. Also there website leaves much to be desired. They do not even state the anti-wear adds, dispersants, rust inhibitors etc. Post the spec’s it was tested too. At around $6.XX per qt it is not bad, not great. If you think these numbers are good, well so be it. I do not .
I also believe their Chief Chemist at Synergyn worked in Amsoils' lab a long time ago.
Iron 1
Silver 2
Aluminum 2
Potassium 1
Moly 74
Boron 111
Magnesium 8
Calcium 2860
Phos 1143
Zinc 1290
Si 2
Vi @ 100c 18.7
ISO 18/13
Ferrous Debris 7
Paricle Volume 2
TBN 9.74
VI: 156
Boron has 4 additives it can be:
1. phosphorilated borates
2. amide ester borates (pure boron in ester base)
3. potassium borates
4. succinimide borates as dispersants
Most leves in oils (as a dispersant) is around 80 to100ppm.
] Also , in playing chemist you say one oil uses too much boron ? How do you know ? Is this your proffesion and does that oil maker know they should reduce the amount of boron in their oil ? [/QUOTE]
I am not a chemist. Only a Mech. Design Eng, but see what I posted above. The ZDDP levels (along with others) is based on the API standards, not the manufactures. It is like ZDDP in the future will not be used as much.
Boron works in the sliding and shearing areas of machines, such as piston rings and pistons, and in the case of gear lubes, the shearing forces from gear teeth. To much is like having too much Moly in the long run or have ash in the oil.
I knew you were not running 30wt in your bike because of the fact you spoke of analysis and brand car . I went to your site and saw where the lab even said your oil thickened out of grade yet you say it's A-OK . Bunk , TBN was 3.3 and time to dump was before the total miles you ran and at your site I saw where you claim Mobil uses TMP Ester in the Supersyn . [/QUOTE]
It (my oil in my Lexus) is 100% FINE based on:
1) The TBN still is 100% fine. You can go down to a TBN below 1 and be ok.
2) The oil thickened yes but if you LOOK it thicken only thickened by 7.8% over 12,200 miles…. shocking how HUGE the value this is.
3) It is ok based on the NOX, OXD and TAN values (and TBN).
4) I removed the oil since it was 1-year old and the oil was drained with 12,200 miles on it.
Wrong again , they are using PAO's and their Synesstic Alkylated Napthalenes which offer better hydrolytical stability and premium seal compatability . Their oils don't thicken out of grade like Amsoil and neither does the 30wt Synergyns . [/QUOTE]
Yes, you are right. Thank god you spotted that error. They use Alkylated Naphthalenes along with Coconut oil esters (in there Tri-Synthetic) oils. I will have to update since I do not follow Mobil anymore since I feel there marketing is a little off. They tried long drains back in the day now they are for round #2. Then there EP oil is lacking in Phos (below 900ppm). But we can save that for another day.
Here is what I know (or some of it).
Trimethylpropane (TMP) esters and pentaerithyritol esters (PE, DiPE) are two most used polyol esters.
The butylate and adipate esters are the most used di-esters.
IN mobil's case, they use the timethylene (TME) tri-esters, but they are still polyol esters
PE's are generally used in small amounts to balance out seal swell characteristics, function as a carrier for oil additives and provide some additional solvency ....
The true, ester based synthetics like Motul use the less expensive, lower viscosity, di-basic acid esters, ie diesters. Amsoil also used diesters from 1972 until about 1980, when they went to the blended PAO/Ester basestocks.
PAO basestocks can use the same additive chemistries developed for petroleum oils, they are more stable in the presence of moisture and their effect on seals is more benign. The advanced PAO's have higher VI's than do almost all esters and their low temp properties are noticeably better.
Here is my last GXSR with Amsoil oil oil.
http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/lexus/oil/oil_test.pdf
There is no one best oil in the world here. But, I or me, like to spend my $$$ wisely too.
But ha, I am glad you keep Silkolene in business....
PS. I like it when people say I am not posting. The closed door attitude is great.
<!--EDIT|gsxr1100
Reason for Edit: None given...|1123270068 -->
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