I hate violence, but not scared

[Projekt]

Nah. All bogus.

He did have to pull up next to the guy. He's on a public street and has a RIGHT to his lane and to use said public street to get from point A to point B.

He has a right to free speech and this includes cussing and sign-language. Therefore, it's on the other driver to exercise self control.

The other guy got out of his vehicle! A person who feels threatened rolls up the windows and locks the doors. Any more threatened and they drive away. The driver was not threatened. No, he almost killed the biker and then decided to finish the job by hand.

End of story.

Let's hope this is the way the judge see's it.

 

[BrianKesler]

Hmmm.....two guys at a bar. They get into an argument over a sports game. Guy number 1 tells the guy number 2 to f off. Guy number 2 beats the crap out of guy number1. Are you gonna blame guy number 1 for saying f off?

Freedom of speech! It does not matter what was said, gestured, sign languaged, whatever! What matters is that the guy got out of his vehicle, with a weapon, and approached the OP.

As for you people who say he is in trouble for drawing his weapon and not using it....you are wrong. If someone is coming at you with a weapon, you draw, and they stop, the threat is gone, there is no longer a need to take somebodys life. If the guy stopped charging the OP, or decided it was not a good idea, why should the OP still shoot him?

As far as holding the guy at gunpoint to take his picture and his tag (if thats what you did), you might catch some heat for that one.

Good luck!

 

[MO-BUSA]

i hate to say this but you know the Road Rage factor will come into play and the judge will probably yell at you both, because they usually don't care who was right and wrong...now as far as you displaying your weapon i cant see why with witnesses you would have a problem, your life was threatened and that's the facts, just all depends on how the judge sees it, lets hope it goes well for ya....

 

[Projekt]

Hmmm.....two guys at a bar. They get into an argument over a sports game. Guy number 1 tells the guy number 2 to f off. Guy number 2 beats the crap out of guy number1. Are you gonna blame guy number 1 for saying f off?

Freedom of speech! It does not matter what was said, gestured, sign languaged, whatever! What matters is that the guy got out of his vehicle, with a weapon, and approached the OP.

As for you people who say he is in trouble for drawing his weapon and not using it....you are wrong. If someone is coming at you with a weapon, you draw, and they stop, the threat is gone, there is no longer a need to take somebodys life. If the guy stopped charging the OP, or decided it was not a good idea, why should the OP still shoot him?

As far as holding the guy at gunpoint to take his picture and his tag (if thats what you did), you might catch some heat for that one.

Good luck!

Speaking of which... How's your situation panning out? Did you have any luck with the bar association referral?

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

To get my point across imagine this is a courtroom with the attitude of such. Did he have options? He didn't HAVE to pull up beside him and "give him the number one after a few words". What did he say to the other guy to get this reaction from him?? Did the other guy feel threatened by a biker dude with their reputation? When the guy got out of his vehicle he was still on his bike. He could have pulled away. Agreed not the manly thing to do but certainly doable. NOW DO YOU GET MY POINT??????

Point taken. However, what led up to the attack is immaterial. The physical agressor was the big guy that exited his vehicle with a weapon in hand and approached an smaller, presumably unarmed guy on a motorcyle at a red light, presumably making riding away potentially life threatening as well.

I think we all realize that virtually anything can happen in court and that the laws and the courts don't always support right over wrong. Nonetheless, I would expect a favorable outcome for an argument of self defense in this case.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

As far as I know, Hawaii does not have a "stand your ground" law. This means you were obligated to flee (I know, it sucks.) Additionally, with a CCW, it is understood that it should never be used as a deterrent, only as a last resort.

The most likely thing here would be for the state attorney to throw out the case. Otherwise you might just lose in court since you clearly did violate the written law.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Ever tried to dance through a red light in traffic? Ever tried to drop your bike and run on foot, in gear? Neither would be a reasonable strategy in this case when you have a legal firearm at your disposal.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

riccoh,

Sorry it all happened, but glad you didn't get arrested or lose your weapon and glad that the a$5hole got stopped in his tracks - bet he'll think twice before pulling that crap again.

Best of luck in court. May justice be served and all this behind you come this time tomorrow.

 

[Vonderbach]

Ever tried to dance through a red light in traffic? Ever tried to drop your bike and run on foot, in gear? Neither would be a reasonable strategy in this case when you have a legal firearm at your disposal.

It's called a CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) because it's legal to be concealed. I have one, I took the classes and I have more than ample experience with the law in that regard. I'm not just making this stuff up, these are the laws, at least as they appear in Florida. You cannot brandish a weapon as a deterrent, period, it's just not going to fly. He would have been better off shooting the guy and claiming that he was in fear for his life.

Now in Florida, you can shoot a guy just for walking up with intent to cause bodily harm, assuming that the threat was real. However, we also have no retreat laws in place that do not require you to flee. In Hawaii, there is no such law to my knowledge. This means you have to attempt to flee the situation before drawing a weapon and discharging.

Bottom line, the laws may suck, but you can't just pretend they don't exist because they don't seem fair. His best hope is to find a sympathetic SA (state attorney) that is going to find this more trouble than it's worth. Especially since the supposed victim left the scene.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

It's called a CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) because it's legal to be concealed. I have one, I took the classes and I have more than ample experience with the law in that regard. I'm not just making this stuff up, these are the laws, at least as they appear in Florida. You cannot brandish a weapon as a deterrent, period, it's just not going to fly. He would have been better off shooting the guy and claiming that he was in fear for his life.

Now in Florida, you can shoot a guy just for walking up with intent to cause bodily harm, assuming that the threat was real. However, we also have no retreat laws in place that do not require you to flee. In Hawaii, there is no such law to my knowledge. This means you have to attempt to flee the situation before drawing a weapon and discharging.

Bottom line, the laws may suck, but you can't just pretend they don't exist because they don't seem fair. His best hope is to find a sympathetic SA (state attorney) that is going to find this more trouble than it's worth.

Understood. What if there was no viable opportunity to flee?

 

[Vonderbach]

Understood. What if there was no viable opportunity to flee?

At that point you are in fear for your life, blast away. Just....be sure.

Dead men tell no tales though.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

At that point you are in fear for your life, blast away. Just....be sure.

Dead men tell no tales though.

And there is no provision for not pulling the trigger if the assailant stops their attack? No gold star for choosing NOT kill in spite of the fact that you were within your rights and the law to do so?

 

[Vonderbach]

And there is no provision for not pulling the trigger if the assailant stops their attack? No gold star for choosing NOT kill in spite of the fact that you were within your rights and the law to do so?

Most cops I know would sooner tell you to pull the trigger. It's screwed up, but that's how they manage to convince people to "keep it in their pants." Pardon the pun. It's also a pretty reliable measure of exactly how much danger you are in. If you're willing to shoot someone legally, chances are you were in fear for your life.

 

[dewie]

hope it works out for you.. That is crazy stuff, I've been toe to toe with a few of those a-holes on the road but never any weapons.. atleast you where prepared..

 

[Vonderbach]

Now in Florida, you can shoot a guy just for walking up with intent to cause bodily harm, assuming that the threat was real.

Just to clarify, I realized that I posted something that is technically incorrect. The aggressor would need to be intending serious bodily harm, not just a punch in the face. I just wanted to be clear, since I'm sure someone would have caught that eventually.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

Just to clarify, I realized that I posted something that is technically incorrect. The aggressor would need to be intending serious bodily harm, not just a punch in the face. I just wanted to be clear, since I'm sure someone would have caught that eventually.

Um...IMHO, a punch in the face IS serious bodily harm!

Referencing our dialog in previous posts, it would appear that one simply needs to drop the fok to demonstrate self defense. There's something really wrong here. Not that I mind losing someone from the gene pool that's willing to get physical and use a weapon against an unarmed, smaller opponent over a one-finger salute, but some of us don't actually want to kill anyone. Guess the old addage comes in to play...

..."No good deed goes unpunished."

Sad.

 

[SANDFLEA85]

long story short,I told this before but its relevent to this...Again???

2001, a guy outside a Bar pointed a gun at me,put it in my face to be exact because my friend got into a fight in the bar and they wanted us to leave (it was in Maryland,Im from Philly,we didnt fit in there)he pointed the gun at me I presume because im 6'3" 290lbs,I had no interest in fighting,it was over. when he showed the gun,something in me clicked instantly and I hit him as hard as I could. he went down and we got the Fk out of there.. Cecli County Sheriff caught us before we got out of state. they arrested me for assault. went to court(had witnesses) described the incident with the guy I supposedly assaulted putting a gun in my face. I got 2 yrs probation and wasnt allowed in Cecil co for 5 yrs. the other guy got held for trial....btw,he was hired security for the bar,I assume he had a permit.he admitted to pointing the gun at me,never cared to find out what happened to him but he left in shackels and I left with my friends.

you need an attorney

 

[Vonderbach]

Um...IMHO, a punch in the face IS serious bodily harm!

In legalese, serious means impending death. A guy with a stick has the ability to kill you, therefore it would be fairly easy to articulate your fear.

Referencing our dialog in previous posts, it would appear that one simply needs to drop the fok to demonstrate self defense. There's something really wrong here. Not that I mind losing someone from the gene pool that's willing to get physical and use a weapon against an unarmed, smaller opponent over a one-finger salute, but some of us don't actually want to kill anyone. Guess the old addage comes in to play...

That is truly why it is best to keep to yourself and not provoke other drivers, especially when you're in town where that guy could say...stop at a light next to you. ???

I'm guilty of the one finger salute many times myself, but this incident actually gives me cause to reconsider such actions in the future. In the heat of the moment, we all make stupid decisions, but the best defense is to go over these types of scenarios in your head so that when the time does come, you'll know when to pull it and when to keep it in the holster.

Good story DEVLDOG, that's actually a great example. Sorry that you suffered legally, but like you said....he did worse. Although I'm confused how you were charged with anything considering that YOUR life was in danger without cause.

 

[SANDFLEA85]

Good story DEVLDOG, that's actually a great example. Sorry that you suffered legally, but like you said....he did worse. Although I'm confused how you were charged with anything considering that YOUR life was in danger without cause.

Cecil Co Maryland is one of those "good ol' boys" places,I really had no business being where I was and the judge took that into consideration.I didnt argue with it,I felt lucky to get off with that.it has since been erased from my record,it was put on a "docket" which means if you co operate with your probation afterwards it is like it never happened but if you get into trouble in the meantime they will hold it against you

I do remember as clear as day him saying to the guy who pulled the gun

" This isnt the wild west son,you just cant going around pointing guns at people"

 

[mofuggahere]

And this is where it all went wrong... Temper lost, not thinking straight, and I understand, but the entire situation was created by ego, attitude, and temper. This complicates things, you instigated a scene that went sideways.
.

Yep! If this went down as stated, you should certainly get an attorney because a big $hit storm is going to brew and it COULD get really bad for you.

Unfortunately people don't look for motorcycles. I doubt that this is the first time you have been cut off and i guarantee it is not going to be the last....it is something you just have to expect when riding on our roads. But to let the finger go and spout some choice words go to the guy only threw gas on the fire.

I seriously would talk to an attorney, hope it all works out for you. It should defenitly ne a learning experience.

 

[Paulie1300]

It's one thing to make gestures at someone, It's another to leave your vehicle with and object in hand with the intent to do bodily harm. Don't get me wrong I understand the gesture is what started this in the first place, but it doesn't give the right for the guy to come after him with a club. That takes it to a whole different level.

Truth- get that witness in court!!!

oh and you should post those pics.......