I made a mistake, and now the Cams are way off.

[L8Apex]

I forgot to zip-tie the timing chain. I'm replacing the chain tensioner and I forgot to zip-tie the chain before pulling it out. I suspected it jumped a few teeth, but looking at the marks it looks like it jumped a lot. But nothing is hitting internally.

I just figured I'd re-time it and everything would be fine. What I didn't expect was that the adjustable cams would be welded. (and also welded over one of the cam marks...)

So, do I re-time based on the dots? Because that's where they've been adjusted to?

These are the cams at true TDC on cyl. 1:

 

[LC4CARL]

All I know about cams involves a degree wheel and a micrometer on a stand type of thing. I don't think these are interferance motors, so that's good.

 

[LC4CARL]

Cam Timing Out? | Busa problems

Just in process of removing head, the gasket as gone and pressurising header tank, when headers came off I can see evidence in #3. But on setting timing marks up when the crank pully is on tdc mark this is where the cans are, can't be correct? Engine is in a car so can't get a clear pic of...

www.hayabusa.org

 

[turtlezx]

DONT LISTEN TO CARL!!!

 

[202mphbusa]

that is at TDC?
if so cams are way off
that said I had one of the first Busa's I know of with a intake cam on the exhaust side
I paid someone to press the sprocket on, they said they knew where to press it for the exhaust side.....hahahah wrong

so maybe your cams are correct and sprockets area mile off
throw a degree wheel and dial indicator on it and check them
or pay someone to do it for you

 

[Dnyce]

Check the cams and see if they are intake /exhaust or dual intake. Then u can call ape and get the directions and see if they were pressed on in the right spot for starters.

If so, then u have a good starting spot. If not, u really starting from scratch. And if that scares u, either pay someone or be prepared to take a long time learning and if something fees like it hits, don’t force it. Bcuz you’ll bend something

 

[L8Apex]

They're definitely INT and EXH cams just going off the lobe height measurements.

The centerlines are:
INT - 107.25
EXH - 111

The sprocket has 34 teeth, so that's ~10.5 degrees per tooth. But the chain is also utilizing the empty spaces as well, so each space on the chain for the tooth to fit would be 5.25 degrees. So if the EXH jumped 1 space, it should be ~105.75. That's close enough to the 108/105 I'd expect.

I just don't understand how the markings can be that far off but the cams are in close enough timing. I might just get new cams and sprockets, because I don't like this.

 

[LC4CARL]

DONT LISTEN TO CARL!!!

Now you sound like my wife...

 

[202mphbusa]

They're definitely INT and EXH cams just going off the lobe height measurements.

The centerlines are:
INT - 107.25
EXH - 111

The sprocket has 34 teeth, so that's ~10.5 degrees per tooth. But the chain is also utilizing the empty spaces as well, so each space on the chain for the tooth to fit would be 5.25 degrees. So if the EXH jumped 1 space, it should be ~105.75. That's close enough to the 108/105 I'd expect.

I just don't understand how the markings can be that far off but the cams are in close enough timing. I might just get new cams and sprockets, because I don't like this.

I know a little about degree ing cams. 107.25/111. Should run okay. Some bikes hit an early limiter with odd/extreme cam numbers. Can you post IO IC. EO EC numbers. AND. Depending on exhaust numbers. Math is “Odd”

 

[Dnyce]

Also, are u sure they were 108/105 when u took it apart?

 

[L8Apex]

Timing measurements taken at 0.3mm:
IO - 20 BTDC
IC - 58 ABDC
EO - 56.5 BBDC
EC - 20 ATDC

I don't know for sure what they were set to before. I just know that it's common.

 

[Dnyce]

Oh. Well…. Looks like u need to establish your own baseline. No need for new cams or gears or anything.

Decide where u want to set em, get em close as possible if not dead on and go from there. That’s the whole point of adjustable gears anyway

 

[L8Apex]

Well, the problem with that is that the sprockets are welded, so they're no longer adjustable. I suppose I could grind off the weld, but one of the welds is over the cam marking.

I'm going to contact APE in the next few days. Maybe they've seen something like this.

 

[Dnyce]

Loosen the two bolts and there’s your adjustment.

 

[GIXERHP]

Loosen the two bolts and there’s your adjustment.

Yes but the base may not be pressed on correctly
What year and what cams

 

[Dnyce]

Straight from APE

CSAKS1300 SPROCKET INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS

INSTALLING APE ADJUSTABLE CAM SPROCKETS ON SUZUKI HAYABUSA, GSXR750 2000 & later, GSXR1000 CAMS 1/03 update EXHAUST The camshaft has a single factory line on the sprocket end. The APE sprocket adaptor is to be installed so that this line goes in center of the two lines on the adaptor. Install the sprocket so that the single sprocket dot is in line with the two adaptor lines. INTAKE The camshaft has a single factory line on the sprocket end. Install the APE adaptor is to be installed so that the line on the cam lines up with the single line on the adaptor. Install the sprocket so that the single sprocket dot is 180 degrees from the two lines on the adaptor. HAYABUSA ONLY... Using intake cams on the exhaust side of the motor is a popular mod in the busa. When doing this type of installation, the single dot on the APE adaptor should be inline with the line on the intake cam. We recommend red loctite be used on the adapters to cam surfaces. BE CAREFUL when removing stock sprockets and installing adapters. Support the cam securely or damage can result. Do not remove the bearings unless they need replacement.

APE -

 

[Dnyce]

Don’t bother grinding off the weld. u basically just gotta start from scratch with the gear in the middle of the adjustment range, throw a degree wheel on it and get it close to what u want, then use the adjustment range to fine tune it.

 

[202mphbusa]

Timing measurements taken at 0.3mm:
IO - 20 BTDC
IC - 58 ABDC
EO - 56.5 BBDC
EC - 20 ATDC

I don't know for sure what they were set to before. I just know that it's common.

EC 20ATDC ?

If the Exhaust cam is factory then the cam is WAY off
at .05 lift it will be BEFORE TDC or dam close
that's why I check mine at .04 and .05

Turbo cam timing Discussion/Opinons | Turbo

Have always set them to 105/105 wondering about feedback from people about other numbers and why

www.hayabusa.org

 

[202mphbusa]

56.5+20+180= 256.5 degrees duration
if correct no chance cams are stock
BUT it does not list anything from APE/Web with that much duration

 

[202mphbusa]

Curious why are you checking them at .3 mm
That’s like .0118 thousandths
Usually people do .04 1 mm. Or .05 1.27 mm.