I went to the Darkside - AKA, car tire on the bike

[Audiomaker]

you didnt hydroplane. you may have lost traction due to the wet surface but you wern't hydroplaning. vehicles with round profile tires like bicycles and motorcycles virtually never suffer from hydroplaning in normal road use when the road is wet.

the area of contact with the road is a canoe-shaped patch which effectively squeezes or forces water out of the way. you would have to be going around 200 mph or more to achieve hydroplaning on a narrow round profiled tire.

Ok, well it's not that I'm disagreeing with you, but something was going on. I couldn't ride 40mph in a straight line and I'm 240lbs and was fully loaded with luggage.

The bike would be totally fine, riding normal and the downpour would start (these are a lot of water really fast down there). It would put probably .5" to .75" of water instantly on the highway and suddenly it felt like I was riding a wave runner instead of a motorcycle. It felt like waterskiing literally and I would immediately have to drop my speed from 70 down to about 35mph before the bike would stop fishing around. I'm talking about loss of control to the extent that serious focus was required not to crash.

It's not my intention to argue, but it's about to be rainy season where I live (PNW) and if my Power Pures don't hydroplane, then I'd sure like to know what what going on the last time.

It happened several times down south... each time the sky would open up, and it would go away as soon as the rain lightened or if I got to a part of the road that was draining better.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but man... I thought I had a pretty good explanation why suddenly I'm balancing on a beach ball that no longer makes sense if MC tires don't hydroplane.

If all it takes is a "canoe" shape, then can I get rid of those water grooves they put in the tire?

Thoughts?

 

[black diamond busa]

Yeap - that size car tire is typicall rated for a 5.5 to 7.5 inch rim, so it fits perfectly on the Busa's 6 Inch rim. Speed rating is V (150 mph). It's a performance all season tire.

If your not big into getting low in the corners it seems like a pretty good compromise.

 

[Big Bo]

At least a rounded tire. Rounder profile.
Turned it into a truck, now that was funny.

Good luck to you sir.

Question, when you brake, do you get snaplash?

 

[GNBRETT]

Ok, well it's not that I'm disagreeing with you, but something was going on. I couldn't ride 40mph in a straight line and I'm 240lbs and was fully loaded with luggage.

The bike would be totally fine, riding normal and the downpour would start (these are a lot of water really fast down there). It would put probably .5" to .75" of water instantly on the highway and suddenly it felt like I was riding a wave runner instead of a motorcycle. It felt like waterskiing literally and I would immediately have to drop my speed from 70 down to about 35mph before the bike would stop fishing around. I'm talking about loss of control to the extent that serious focus was required not to crash.

It's not my intention to argue, but it's about to be rainy season where I live (PNW) and if my Power Pures don't hydroplane, then I'd sure like to know what what going on the last time.

It happened several times down south... each time the sky would open up, and it would go away as soon as the rain lightened or if I got to a part of the road that was draining better.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but man... I thought I had a pretty good explanation why suddenly I'm balancing on a beach ball that no longer makes sense if MC tires don't hydroplane.

If all it takes is a "canoe" shape, then can I get rid of those water grooves they put in the tire?

Thoughts?

well, im referring to normal road conditions. you put enough water on the road and ur tire will lose contact with the pavement. remember, hydroplaning or aquaplaning occurs when water on the road accumulates in front of your vehicle's tires faster then the weight of your vehicle can push it way. if ur riding in a river of water in say a down pour like u experience where you live then there is no place for the front tire to displace the water.

speed, tire tread depth, water depth, tread design, weight of vehicle, tire pressure, road surface type and even the consistency of the water are the main contributing factors to hydroplaning. remember, the tire compresses the water out the side and the remaining goes thru the groves in the tire. if the water levels are so high around the tire then there is no where for the water to be compressed. doesnt matter what kinda grooves ur tire has.

water acts as a lubricant with rubber so if u get enough water under ur tire it will be slippery but u wont necessarily hydroplane on a motorcycle tire. it can happen, im not saying its totally impossible but highly unlikely on a motorcycle tire. especially a power pure tire which is a great tire in the rain.

 

[Audiomaker]

well, im referring to normal road conditions. you put enough water on the road and ur tire will lose contact with the pavement. remember, hydroplaning or aquaplaning occurs when water on the road accumulates in front of your vehicle's tires faster then the weight of your vehicle can push it way. if ur riding in a river of water in say a down pour like u experience where you live then there is no place for the front tire to displace the water.

speed, tire tread depth, water depth, tread design, weight of vehicle, tire pressure, road surface type and even the consistency of the water are the main contributing factors to hydroplaning. remember, the tire compresses the water out the side and the remaining goes thru the groves in the tire. if the water levels are so high around the tire then there is no where for the water to be compressed. doesnt matter what kinda grooves ur tire has.

water acts as a lubricant with rubber so if u get enough water under ur tire it will be slippery but u wont necessarily hydroplane on a motorcycle tire. it can happen, im not saying its totally impossible but highly unlikely on a motorcycle tire. especially a power pure tire which is a great tire in the rain.

Fair enough, but let me assure you that a Hayabusa...even with over 300lbs of load (rider(s) + luggage) can indeed hydroplane at speeds as low as 40mph.

I don't want any new owners to read this board and think you need to be going 200mph, or even 100mph.

You are right, it is all about how much water is in front of you (depth). There is of course a point where the water could be 12" deep and you wouldn't hydroplane (i.e....going 5mph), but I have had it happen right around 40mph with a water depth of about .5 to .75" (best guess, I didn't get off and measure it).

Yes, that is indeed deep on the highway, but it does happen. 40mph was the lower end cutoff at those depths as well, but it got downright scary above 50mph.

Most highways drain quickly enough that this standing water is not a problem. I've done 70-80 in a pretty good rainstorm, but when you start trying to ride in the 50' tracks the car in front of you is leaving, it's time to watch out.

Humble opinions expressed
Sean

 

[GNBRETT]

the point is..... a car tire will hydroplane far easier then a motorcycle tire will so for a commuter who switches to a car tire its far more dangerous if he/she rides in the rain which most commuters will do sooner or later.

the extra money saved on a car tire vs. a motorcycle tire seems hardly worth it to me but two each his own.....

 

[jphilipson]

the point is..... a car tire will hydroplane far easier then a motorcycle tire will so for a commuter who switches to a car tire its far more dangerous if he/she rides in the rain which most commuters will do sooner or later.

the extra money saved on a car tire vs. a motorcycle tire seems hardly worth it to me but two each his own.....

Funny thing is, a number of darksiders I have talked to prefer the car tire in he rain, and say it grips better - cannot say myself yet, as I haven't ridden it in the rain.

 

[Audiomaker]

Funny thing is, a number of darksiders I have talked to prefer the car tire in he rain, and say it grips better - cannot say myself yet, as I haven't ridden it in the rain.

Be careful finding out.

 

[lankeeyankee]

OK bottom line here...

a passenger tire that is rated for 30K miles gets this by its tire compound mixture. In order to acheive higher mileage the tire compound has to be harder. The sacrafice we make with a harder compound tires is traction.
If you want to sacrifice safety for more mileage from your tire then all power to you as I always say "Aint my ride"
Some things I am not willing to sacrafice in order to save a few bucks on a motorcycle and those are tires and brakes.
You just never know when you have to hard brake and swerve to avoid a collision and I hope you dont ever have to with a passenger tire on your motorcycle.
If you dont ever come into that situation then you have us beat dollar wise.
While your at it maybe you can find some passenger car brake pads that last longer and willing to sacrifce the stopping power..

Thats the joy of being an adult and owning a motorcycle you can make any decisions you want and modify your bike the way you like.


It would be intersting to see 2 of the same motorcycles one with a motorcycle tire and the other with a passsenger tire with stabilty testing equipment used to test each motorcycle in a course with emergency braking and other stopping distance.

I will make this bet, I can stop much quicker from 70 MPH on a Michelin motorcycle tire then you can on ANY passenger tire.

Ive ridden on a motorcycle tire and a passenger tire on the same motorcycle and I can tell you the passenger tire had MUCH less traction.

 

[lankeeyankee]

Funny thing is, a number of darksiders I have talked to prefer the car tire in he rain, and say it grips better - cannot say myself yet, as I haven't ridden it in the rain.

LOL! Serious?

Can you lift the front end during a rain storm by just rolling on the throttle in first gear?
If you can make a video as I will also the next time it rains.

This may be true on a cruiser bike where the weight disturbution is WAY different on a Hayabusa... Ask them cruiser guys also if they use mostly front brakes when they ride.

 

[Poppy]

Funny thing is, a number of darksiders I have talked to prefer the car tire in he rain, and say it grips better - cannot say myself yet, as I haven't ridden it in the rain.

During my last year and a half in Florida, I rode on a CT on my Nomad and had no problem riding in the rain. Palm Beach County gets plenty of rain....just ask Blanca. Now this was on my Nomad, not the Busa....a little bit of weight difference. Real life experiences. I've pulled a trailer with the Nomad from Florida to Kentucky, over to Bryson City, NC; all over the Smokie Mountains, back to Florida, no problems.

When I first thought about the car tire, I admit I was skeptical but after researching the idea it made sense. jphilipson has his bike setup as a long distance tourer and he will see numerous benefits of running a car tire. He will adjust to the characteristics of the larger contact patch and will probably enjoy it. IF you are a canyon carver, which most members on here envision themselves, the CT is not for you. I say to the negative nellys to let people try something different and report back. He may not like it, we will see.

To jphilipson; p.s....I run 28 - 34 psi; you need to experiment and find your sweet spot.

 

[GNBRETT]

This may be true on a cruiser bike where the weight disturbution is WAY different on a Hayabusa...

exactly!

 

[Poppy]

I agree the cruiser/tourer will be different than a sport tourer but again, plenty of folks are using them on sport touring bikes. Again, not for everyone.

 

[880jedi]

The worry is how fast can you react, (ie, approaching stopped traffic, and a need to swerve to avoid a collision)? If turning requires more effort in normal conditions, is it the same in panic mode? ???

 

[jphilipson]

To jphilipson; p.s....I run 28 - 34 psi; you need to experiment and find your sweet spot.

Still working on that - started at 30, which is what the FJR usually run - then dropped to 28. I *think* I need to go even lower due to the Busa being lighter. Gonna have to tinker with it till I get it right.

 

[jphilipson]

The worry is how fast can you react, (ie, approaching stopped traffic, and a need to swerve to avoid a collision)? If turning requires more effort in normal conditions, is it the same in panic mode? ???

It really not that bad that it will effect reaction time - just requires more pressure through a turn to maintain a line. Remember, steering is initiated by your front wheel.

 

[04 limited]

Darkside tire on the highway - YouTube

that not bad

 

[red1100cc]

as much as i tour, i have thought about it.

car tires have 30,000mi warranties too.

 

[jacob123]

When u skid out and total ur bike all the money u saved from ur tire choice can go into rebuilding it. So atleast u have that. I have a nice full stock exhaust u can have for free. Id suggest gathering salvage parts now. Ha ha sorry.

 

[lil charlie]

When u skid out and total ur bike all the money u saved from ur tire choice can go into rebuilding it. So atleast u have that. I have a nice full stock exhaust u can have for free. Id suggest gathering salvage parts now. Ha ha sorry.

Says the guy whos never been on a darkside tire before...... Granted, when I did it, I had a heavy 2002 Honda VTX1800 and not the Busa but I was dragging pegs and foot boards left and right from leaning so much...I even scratched up my pipes. I would be more worried about how that tire holds up when I decided to crack the busa whip and get up to some real speed. I could pound the throttle on the VTX and that tire would take anything the bike could give it but it was dang sure no Hayabusa.