IG I think you're gonna be a millionaire. Are you looking for investors?
Introducing Motorcycle Foot Anchors
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Tony Nitrous
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IG.
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That's exactly why I waited for almost a year before going public, riding and testing, testing, testing... Similar argument could go for the rear brake and the shifter, but we all know that once this becomes automatic, shifting and the use of the rear brake is not an issue. The same thing with foot anchors. There is a learning curve, but once it's automatic, you don't even think about it. Also, keep in mind that foot anchors are strategically located roughly above the shift lever and brake pedal respectfully, and every rider already knows and has a reflex of how to move their feet in such positions. Also, lifting your body up is a lot easier with foot anchors.
You are right that speed, and especially S-transitions present an additional challenge, but I believe it's all doable even at those speeds.
Many years ago, no one was hanging off. When it was first introduced, it was laughed at.
Same story with knee pucks...
IG.
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I wish your statement becomes true one day, because at the moment it's quite the opposite, LOL. But I do believe in this, and my wife is very supportive, and that's what keeps me going.
Not looking for investors at the moment because there isn't anything to invest into. I can pretty much spend about an hour with a bike measuring and taking notes, and come up with a design, refine it a bit later, and after about 20 hours of cutting, machining, filing, drilling, tapping, etc. can produce a prototype. I have a local machine shop who is very supportive of my project, and already gave me pricing for different quantities. If I could get at least 10 people to order I would give it away for cost to me which would be around $220. The shop says they have no upper limits, even if I need to make hundreds per day. So, that's where I am.
Already have designs for Hayabusa, gixxer k1, R6. CBR600RR is a bit challenging because of curved footpeg mounting bracket. S1000RR doesn't seem to be a problem. You get the picture.
IG.
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Can't teach old farts new tricks.
Neither are they willing to try new things. I bet you still have a flip phone.
Don't be too tough on Tuf. It's not easy to accept paradigm shift. Many of us would feel the same way if we were in his shoes. Fundamentals of riding don't change, and everything about riding stays the same - it's important to recognize that, including the many fine points of riding Tuf is teaching his students. Foot anchors simply allow to expand on the same principles: still hanging off in turns - but farther; still holding on to the bike and anchoring your body to the bike - but more reliably.
Tuf was very nice compared to what I went through on WERA forum. My conclusion is that in general, the more knowledgeable a person is in a certain area, the harder it is to be able to have a fresh look at it. And like I said, it affects all of us.
Tony Nitrous
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Have you approached any big names or top end teams ?
MotoGP, World Superbikes or national teams in the EU or US
not just lower level racers.
I'm sure many potential buyers may be swayed but anything a famous name has.
It's a fact motorcycling is very fashion based, riders want what riders see higher up the tree.
I know some pretty tame riders who have leathers with humps, camel packs, double bubble
screens, knee sliders and certain brands of leathers, helmets and exhausts etc etc just because its the
gear they see at the races or on TV.
"AS USED BY............. " would be the key to the door I'd imagine ?
MotoGP, World Superbikes or national teams in the EU or US
not just lower level racers.
I'm sure many potential buyers may be swayed but anything a famous name has.
It's a fact motorcycling is very fashion based, riders want what riders see higher up the tree.
I know some pretty tame riders who have leathers with humps, camel packs, double bubble
screens, knee sliders and certain brands of leathers, helmets and exhausts etc etc just because its the
gear they see at the races or on TV.
"AS USED BY............. " would be the key to the door I'd imagine ?
IG.
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Thank you for your suggestion. I did try to approach some pretty well known names, but their reaction was similar to what Tuf said. I don't want to mention names because those were private communications. However, I will mention one which I believe would not create any issues. I called Suzuki in Japan, found someone in Testing Dept. who spoke English, got their email, and then explained the whole thing in email, gave link to the website, and said that being a big Suzuki fan I wanted Suzuki MotoGP team to win in 2015, and said that although I did apply for a patent, I give Suzuki MotoGP team all the rights to use foot anchors on their MotoGP bikes. Asked them to put me in touch with Davide Brivio (Suzuki MotoGP Test Team Manager). They got back to me asking for patent information. I responded explaining that the paperwork is in pending state and the patent hasn't been issued yet and it may take many months if not years, however I had no problem providing to them any details they needed although most everything could be found on the website. No response. I emailed again after a while. No response. End of story.
IG.
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I know what you mean, but it's not something I can just take off the shelf and ship. I need pictures of the foot control area, some basic measurements, and overall cooperation, then go to one of the three dealerships which allow me to measure/test fitment, come up with a design for that specific bike model if I don't have it, then sweat on it for about 20 hours, then go back and test fitment, possibly tweak a bit. Also, as I mentioned the rider should be willing to change probably 20 out of 100 things cornering consists of, and this is some serious commitment. Also, our interaction was deeper than "Do you want to try those?". They really didn't believe in it, and that would kill the whole thing. Unfortunately, it's not like installing a better footpeg or a more functional brake lever. That's why there is such a great level of detail on the website, and in the format almost like you are talking to a person - all of that, in order to provide as much feel and detail as possible. Also, sometimes communication occurs through a third party, which also complicates things.
They are pretty smart and savvy people, and get the approach quickly. But their preconceived notions push their thinking in the opposite direction, creating a serious psychological barrier, and making them very non-receptive to the idea. That's quite a challenge to overcome. I am sure many of them would be like "Holy Cow!" if they really gave it a chance.
Tiller
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My concern with these is where your feet SHOULD be on the pegs when you ride. You should be riding (especially at the track) with the balls of your feet on the pegs except for when shifting or braking is needed.
This is most important when in turns so you don't drag boots or hard parts. So, when I hit a RH corner, the balls of my feet are on the pegs. This allows maximum leg length to lean off the bike. Not only that, but my feet actually tend to "hang off" the outside peg by pointing outward, giving evem more leg length to lean across the bike.
My biggest concern with the anchors is the need to put the center of your feet on the peg and hook your foot close to the bike to get under the anchor. I realize that you hook under the outside peg so dragging a boot or something is not an issue, but having to physically take your foot in and out of a small space between the shifter/brake and the anchor cause potentially be dangerous if you missed once.
I also honestly think that hooking my foot under the anchor would provide me LESS leg length to lean off the bike. Sure it would give me something to hook to so I can pull myself back up, but I would probably lose available body distance to lean. Take this pic (of me at Barber Motorsports Park). If you compare where my foot is on the peg and where it would have to be under a foot anchor, I feel the amount of left leg I have to lean would become less... Could be wrong tho.
But then again, I am also 6'2" so I have excess body length to lean further off the bike.
This is most important when in turns so you don't drag boots or hard parts. So, when I hit a RH corner, the balls of my feet are on the pegs. This allows maximum leg length to lean off the bike. Not only that, but my feet actually tend to "hang off" the outside peg by pointing outward, giving evem more leg length to lean across the bike.
My biggest concern with the anchors is the need to put the center of your feet on the peg and hook your foot close to the bike to get under the anchor. I realize that you hook under the outside peg so dragging a boot or something is not an issue, but having to physically take your foot in and out of a small space between the shifter/brake and the anchor cause potentially be dangerous if you missed once.
I also honestly think that hooking my foot under the anchor would provide me LESS leg length to lean off the bike. Sure it would give me something to hook to so I can pull myself back up, but I would probably lose available body distance to lean. Take this pic (of me at Barber Motorsports Park). If you compare where my foot is on the peg and where it would have to be under a foot anchor, I feel the amount of left leg I have to lean would become less... Could be wrong tho.
But then again, I am also 6'2" so I have excess body length to lean further off the bike.
IG.
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Tiller, you have valid concerns, and let me address them one at a time.
You are absolutely right about being on the balls of your feet, and especially the inside foot - this does not change. However, with foot anchors, your outside foot does not touch the outside footpeg - it is close, but slightly above it hooked under the anchor. So, with your outside foot being slightly higher, you are able to move your upper body on the other side even further away from the bike. Notice how in your avatar your head is somewhat above the tank, although somewhat to the inside.
Imagine if I asked you to move your head a good 4-6 inches farther to the inside, with your upper body following your head, while pushing the bike to the outside away from your head. Wouldn't you agree that shifting your upper body to the inside in such a way would reduce the bike's lean angle by a few degrees? Or you could go faster through the same turn while preserving the same lean angle. Or, you could tighten a line by just moving your upper body to the inside this way, while preserving the bike's lean angle and speed.
The problem is that if you actually attempt to move your upper body that far, you might not be able to hold on to the bike and run the danger of falling on the inside of the bike. That's where foot anchors allow you to accomplish this safely.
Now imagine the bike shakes going over a bumpy curb like on lap 8 or 9 of recent MotoGP in Indy when a rider almost lost it, and his outside leg went up in the air. Or, you got into a slide like it happened to Rossi on lap 8 and his outside leg went up in the air. This would not have happened to a rider with foot anchors. My point is that typically, a rider barely holds on to the bike - enough to go through a turn when everything goes smoothly, but not enough to preserve stability if something iffy starts happening.
Regarding your main concern. A foot anchor is not a footpeg. The indentation on a footpeg is non-biased and is designed to prevent movement of a rider's foot in any direction. No so with foot anchors. A foot anchor has uni-directional bias to prevent movement of rider's foot a) only in the direction away from the bike, and b) only when a rider hooks the foot under the anchor and presses up against it. Also remember that there is enough clearance between the foot anchor and shifter/rear brake pedal that you can easily slide your foot in and out. Once your foot under the anchor and only with upward pressure (which you control) it will hold you. But the moment you relax your foot, not to mention try to move it out - it will go out as if the anchor is lubed with oil - thank to a unique indentation design. So, it is virtually impossible not to be able to move your foot out quickly.
Your concern that you may move your foot into the wrong spot is valid. However, it's like shifting... How often are you unable to find your shifter or brake pedal with your feet when you want to use them? Probably never or extremely rarely. This is because your muscle memory directs your feet exactly where they should be. It's like a musician will always hit the right key without looking at the keyboard. You are looking at it from "today's" perspective, in the same way a new rider thinks how challenging it would be to shift on a motorcycle.
Actually, one not very tall racer indicated that the outside leg was barely touching the peg and more often would simply float in the air. Now think how much effort a rider needs to make in order to tighten the muscles of the outside leg to anchor the body to the bike in a reasonably stable position. All of that goes away with foot anchors - all of a sudden, your entire body is relaxed and can move freely to achieve the most comfortable position, and shakes/slides do not affect you. You gotta experience it to believe it - I mean the relief from a typical riding position.
But you are right, this is different compared to what you are used to. Your outside foot is no longer pointed outward, but rather hooked under the anchor. But hey, that's a small price to pay for going faster and safer. I have a particular high speed turn with lots of bumps in it. Never was too comfortable going faster through this turn as the bike was bouncing a bit. Now, with foot anchors it's amazing how I literally just hang in there doing nothing special, and the bike just goes over bumps and doesn't even slide like before. This is because in the past my body would bounce up and down going over bumps and there was nothing I could do and no amount of suspension changes would address the issue, but now with foot anchors my body acts as an additional suspension device calming the bike's bouncing.
You are absolutely right about being on the balls of your feet, and especially the inside foot - this does not change. However, with foot anchors, your outside foot does not touch the outside footpeg - it is close, but slightly above it hooked under the anchor. So, with your outside foot being slightly higher, you are able to move your upper body on the other side even further away from the bike. Notice how in your avatar your head is somewhat above the tank, although somewhat to the inside.
Imagine if I asked you to move your head a good 4-6 inches farther to the inside, with your upper body following your head, while pushing the bike to the outside away from your head. Wouldn't you agree that shifting your upper body to the inside in such a way would reduce the bike's lean angle by a few degrees? Or you could go faster through the same turn while preserving the same lean angle. Or, you could tighten a line by just moving your upper body to the inside this way, while preserving the bike's lean angle and speed.
The problem is that if you actually attempt to move your upper body that far, you might not be able to hold on to the bike and run the danger of falling on the inside of the bike. That's where foot anchors allow you to accomplish this safely.
Now imagine the bike shakes going over a bumpy curb like on lap 8 or 9 of recent MotoGP in Indy when a rider almost lost it, and his outside leg went up in the air. Or, you got into a slide like it happened to Rossi on lap 8 and his outside leg went up in the air. This would not have happened to a rider with foot anchors. My point is that typically, a rider barely holds on to the bike - enough to go through a turn when everything goes smoothly, but not enough to preserve stability if something iffy starts happening.
Regarding your main concern. A foot anchor is not a footpeg. The indentation on a footpeg is non-biased and is designed to prevent movement of a rider's foot in any direction. No so with foot anchors. A foot anchor has uni-directional bias to prevent movement of rider's foot a) only in the direction away from the bike, and b) only when a rider hooks the foot under the anchor and presses up against it. Also remember that there is enough clearance between the foot anchor and shifter/rear brake pedal that you can easily slide your foot in and out. Once your foot under the anchor and only with upward pressure (which you control) it will hold you. But the moment you relax your foot, not to mention try to move it out - it will go out as if the anchor is lubed with oil - thank to a unique indentation design. So, it is virtually impossible not to be able to move your foot out quickly.
Your concern that you may move your foot into the wrong spot is valid. However, it's like shifting... How often are you unable to find your shifter or brake pedal with your feet when you want to use them? Probably never or extremely rarely. This is because your muscle memory directs your feet exactly where they should be. It's like a musician will always hit the right key without looking at the keyboard. You are looking at it from "today's" perspective, in the same way a new rider thinks how challenging it would be to shift on a motorcycle.
Actually, one not very tall racer indicated that the outside leg was barely touching the peg and more often would simply float in the air. Now think how much effort a rider needs to make in order to tighten the muscles of the outside leg to anchor the body to the bike in a reasonably stable position. All of that goes away with foot anchors - all of a sudden, your entire body is relaxed and can move freely to achieve the most comfortable position, and shakes/slides do not affect you. You gotta experience it to believe it - I mean the relief from a typical riding position.
But you are right, this is different compared to what you are used to. Your outside foot is no longer pointed outward, but rather hooked under the anchor. But hey, that's a small price to pay for going faster and safer. I have a particular high speed turn with lots of bumps in it. Never was too comfortable going faster through this turn as the bike was bouncing a bit. Now, with foot anchors it's amazing how I literally just hang in there doing nothing special, and the bike just goes over bumps and doesn't even slide like before. This is because in the past my body would bounce up and down going over bumps and there was nothing I could do and no amount of suspension changes would address the issue, but now with foot anchors my body acts as an additional suspension device calming the bike's bouncing.
Tiller
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You mention being able to lean another 4-6 inches.. since obviously you use these, have you not run into the fact that you can only lean so far? I mean I don't think I have another 6 inches are outside arm length to give when I'm at full lean.
And even continuing to go further down inside the bike. Eventually, one would think at some point you become a wedge in between the bike and ground, no?
I understand leaning off and trying to keep your head as far down as possible. I've even over compensated this before in an attempt to drag elbow, but have felt that there is a limit with how far you can really lean. I'll over compensate to try and drag and elbow and I'll actually go off my normal line trying to do it.. but I'm sure that's mostly because I'm still too slow :down:
And even continuing to go further down inside the bike. Eventually, one would think at some point you become a wedge in between the bike and ground, no?
I understand leaning off and trying to keep your head as far down as possible. I've even over compensated this before in an attempt to drag elbow, but have felt that there is a limit with how far you can really lean. I'll over compensate to try and drag and elbow and I'll actually go off my normal line trying to do it.. but I'm sure that's mostly because I'm still too slow :down:
IG, what if the anchor peg was break away (or folded actually)? As long as the peg holds until you put the kind of force on it you would need to snap a bone it would be safe right? Also this would address another issue is when the bike is on it's side, where are those forces going?
IG.
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No, not lean another 4-6", but move your head away from the bike another 4-6". The elbow of your outside arm is no longer in the air, but rather rests comfortably on the tank, so your entire outside arm rests on the tank. This whole exercise will actually reduce the lean angle of the bike for the same speed, but of course we want to go faster instead while preserving the same lean angle. Essentially, the more upper body mass you can move to the inside, the better. Being only 5'8", I get to the point where my upper body is so far away from the bike that my outside arm is almost straight, resting on the tank. That's my limit.
Otherwise, your overall logic is correct. The ideal way is to get on the inside and below the bike (like Marquez), but you are right that with modern tires and lots of traction you become a wedge between the bike and the road. Then, the only way to get your upper body further away from the bike is in horizontal plane only - visualize how in the wedge mentioned above the bike and the road squeeze your body to the side. Guys with longer legs/arms have a certain advantage.
What's great about such body position is that as long as you preserve it (with the outside arm resting on the tank, and upper body far away from the bike) no matter how far you lean the bike, your knee, elbow and even shoulder will drag before the bike's hard parts. It's the consistency, predictability, and relaxed nature of such body position which makes staying leaned an easy and enjoyable affair.
I also advocate going away from "keeping your eyes with the horizon" notion, but rather following the new proposed body position explained on the website.
IG.
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Break away is the way to go, and foot anchors are designed to break away if they hit the ground: made of more brittle aluminum 7075-T6, and the hole in the anchor goes in by about 30mm. Making it foldable would significantly complicate the design and make it less reliable. Foot anchors are generally shorter than pegs and positioned higher on the bike. As a result, they are a lot less likely to contact the road in the first place - pegs and plastics/engine cases should touch first.
I am hoping that unidirectional indentation works well and if a rider wants to slide the foot out nothing prevents this from happening. However, as with solidly mounted footpegs which practically all racers/track riders (including myself) utilize, if the bike lands on a rider's leg with either such footpeg or a foot anchor, it's not going to be pretty. As one or two guys on WERA forum indicated it has happened. The slight advantage a foot anchor would have in such scenario is that it is shorter than a footpeg, has completely dull end, and sticks out less than the footpeg/case covers.
There was another scenario one of the racers was concerned about. He had an instance when another rider was passing him too close and the other bike's peg or another hard part pulled his leg forward. He says a foot anchor would prevent his foot from moving forward and the leg may sustain a damage from the passing bike.
IG.
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I agree. These guys are crazy, LOL. Trading paint, stuffing each other on the inside, talking about crashing like, well, it's part of racing.
You should print this, because 20 years from now, when you are sitting in your Chalet in Gstaad surrounded by Playboy Bunnies while Bill Gates is holding on the line to get your advice...well, anyway, you get where I'm heading...
I hope it makes you MILLIONS. And while Tiller and I are curious (since we are always trying to figure out ways to outdo the other at the track
), I'd really like to see a rider get out and test it a little first before I throw my faith in it. Some Youtube video...
P.S. When I'm leaning, I've got the ball/toe of the inside foot on the peg, but the outside peg is usually in the bend of my foot and my toe is turned out a little. Would require an entirely different riding style. But sure as God made little green apples, there's SOMEBODY on the race circuit that would be willing to try it if it made him faster...BEFORE you GO ANY FURTHER, IMMEDIATELY PERFECT YOUR PATENT!!! Or somebody's gonna steal your idea...
I hope it makes you MILLIONS. And while Tiller and I are curious (since we are always trying to figure out ways to outdo the other at the track
), I'd really like to see a rider get out and test it a little first before I throw my faith in it. Some Youtube video...P.S. When I'm leaning, I've got the ball/toe of the inside foot on the peg, but the outside peg is usually in the bend of my foot and my toe is turned out a little. Would require an entirely different riding style. But sure as God made little green apples, there's SOMEBODY on the race circuit that would be willing to try it if it made him faster...BEFORE you GO ANY FURTHER, IMMEDIATELY PERFECT YOUR PATENT!!! Or somebody's gonna steal your idea...
IG.
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Hey skydivr, I like the future as you are painting it.
The problem with me - this will lead to more projects, with no time for anything else. Well, I would sure get a few toys, and more track days...
You are absolutely right - this will require a different style of riding. And you are absolutely right, I hope it's just a matter of time before ONE racer figures it out and moves up by half a dozen positions or more. The challenge is that these same racers are not very receptive at the moment. LOL. Psychological barrier. Resistance to paradigm shift.
I feel like a test pilot. Not riding for pleasure only, but to test something - this creates the sense of a purpose. Was riding today, and moved my head by another couple of inches farther from the bike, and almost hit the curb! Takes some getting used to. And I am a pretty conservative rider. I can only imagine what can be accomplished by more capable riders. Everyone will be dragging elbows, and some will be dragging shoulders. ??? I also hope that being so close to the ground, some potential highsides can be turned into lowsides (for the rider only, not for the bike).
Thank you for your suggestion regarding the patent. I am working with a trusted patent attorney, and had all paperwork filed PRIOR to going public. Unlike, for example, a different footpeg design, the patent would cover ANY design of a foot anchor, even if it is quite different - no matter what shape, indentation, material, etc. Not sure what else to perfect. Only other/faster guys could make a suggestion. I think the choice of material was perfect. I compare the indentation on the lower part of foot anchors (where it contacts the boot) with the upper part, and I can't tell the difference - no degradation. That was very important to me. If you look at the typical footpeg made out of 6061-T6 aluminum, there is a clear degradation of the footpeg surface area which comes into contact with the rider's boot.
The problem with me - this will lead to more projects, with no time for anything else. Well, I would sure get a few toys, and more track days... You are absolutely right - this will require a different style of riding. And you are absolutely right, I hope it's just a matter of time before ONE racer figures it out and moves up by half a dozen positions or more. The challenge is that these same racers are not very receptive at the moment. LOL. Psychological barrier. Resistance to paradigm shift.
I feel like a test pilot. Not riding for pleasure only, but to test something - this creates the sense of a purpose. Was riding today, and moved my head by another couple of inches farther from the bike, and almost hit the curb! Takes some getting used to. And I am a pretty conservative rider. I can only imagine what can be accomplished by more capable riders. Everyone will be dragging elbows, and some will be dragging shoulders. ??? I also hope that being so close to the ground, some potential highsides can be turned into lowsides (for the rider only, not for the bike).
Thank you for your suggestion regarding the patent. I am working with a trusted patent attorney, and had all paperwork filed PRIOR to going public. Unlike, for example, a different footpeg design, the patent would cover ANY design of a foot anchor, even if it is quite different - no matter what shape, indentation, material, etc. Not sure what else to perfect. Only other/faster guys could make a suggestion. I think the choice of material was perfect. I compare the indentation on the lower part of foot anchors (where it contacts the boot) with the upper part, and I can't tell the difference - no degradation. That was very important to me. If you look at the typical footpeg made out of 6061-T6 aluminum, there is a clear degradation of the footpeg surface area which comes into contact with the rider's boot.
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