Lance Armstrong

[GNBRETT]

No you turn in the empties so they A) know you aren't selling it instead of putting it in your body and B)taking it as prescribed. I can't call 2 weeks early saying I need more, unless the blood test support it. If my levels are lower, the doctor can see this, and then I would get more dosage. I take 2CCs per week intramuscular, with a .6CC time release patch replaced every 24 hours.

Testosterone is a controlled substance, so it doesn't get ABUSED.

I actually have a valid medical reason why I have my blood levels monitored. Due to an internal head injury I sustained in a car wreck about 15 years ago, my Pituitary gland has formed a mass on it. Thereby causing it's output hormones to be diminished. Therefore my body doesn't receive the full signal to make it. If I don't take it, I have lots of other ripple effects. My blood pressure is taken twice weekly, my blood level is monitored monthly, my meds are taken daily and weekly, my refills are issued monthly. If my Pituitary gland output changes, then I would need to make adjustments again.

Now the side effects of too much testosterone are many. I'll start with what I expect will be the most important one to most of you. Your nads shrink and die. They simply stop making it and have no more use to produce. Called Hypogonadism. Past that your red blood cell count is directly related to T levels. So is blood pressure, heart and kidney functions, oxygen transfers, joint lubrication. Ability to concentrate, exert physical activity, recovery from such. Its a long list that I won't bore you with.

They actually have seen elevated T causes more crime, more violence, more spousal abuse etc. Too much can be bad news in many ways. Each of us are unique in what we need. I can tell you I am levels that exceed what bodybuilders use. I am at higher levels of use than a female transgender uses to become and stay male. Yet with my augments, my end levels of T are within normal levels expected for males. I use a lot more than the norm and my body has a dysfunctional Pituitary gland. This is why we have a medical community.

My blood is monitored to ensure that all is in balance. I am adding to my reduced naturally produced levels by supplementing what ISN'T being made naturally. My doctor has given me a closely monitored good quality of life as a result of tweaking these levels over a 3 year period of time. I like the result just fine. I felt like he** for about 5 years before they worked me up. There were days when I considered not getting out of bed as an alternative to what would feel worse by getting up. For a period of time, while we were trying to find the "right" level, I had too high a level. I know what too much did to me. Now I feel great!

Athletes are the ones boosting themselves past anything normal, in order to make a ton of money. And they have to outdo the next guy to make more than him. They have to cheat the system anyway they can, for your entertainment. To me that is retarded. And they can't do what they do unless they have corrupted doctors they can buy off, or they do it on their own by buying it out of the trunk of a guy in the parking lot of the gym.

Go ahead keep taking all you want.

well, that makes a little more sense then someone with simply low "T" levels. TEST is a naturally occurring substance in a mans body. its wat makes us men basically. taking additional amounts of test is hardly cheating.

what I find comical is when ppl like you keep talking about test as being so harmful or "cheating"..... test is a controlled substance yet alcohol and nicotine are not. both are DRUGS! where exactly does alcohol or nicotine occur naturally in ur body????

 

[TallTom]

I never said the test are harmful. Please find where that mis-understanding came from?

And I am not the one who has any clue what they are taking. I simply said, the test enforces rules. Rules are rules.

 

[GNBRETT]

I never said the test are harmful. Please find where that mis-understanding came from?

And I am not the one who has any clue what they are taking. I simply said, the test enforces rules. Rules are rules.

OMG...! test means TESTOSERONE! no one said the testing is harmful. try to stay on point here.

RULES are only enforceable and FAIR when they are applied equally to everyone. they are not.

if the TESTING was so accurate and FAIR.... then why didnt Armstrong ever test positive to Doping? so RULES are not RULES. well, they are when the people in charge have an agenda and say "well, we cant catch you doping so were gonna ignore the numerous tests you have taken and PASSED".

so make up ur mind. either you believe that TESTING is the the deciding factor as to when someone breaks the rules or u dont. Armstrong didnt fail a doping test so in ur opinion he did nothing wrong. let me quote you.... "the test enforces rules. Rules are rules"

 

[m_ridgeway]

Test = testosterone

Look up the leading causes for ER visits, I bet it will take some time to run across something resembling any AAS.

It didn't become illegal to protect people, just like hemp.

You live in the fairy tale, AAS are all around you and alot of the crap you can buy from gnc or wherever thats intent is to resemble AAS is more harmful than the real thing.

You can go into any real gym across the country and find people using them.

As far as using human grade, your jumping through alot of hoops to achieve your goal. Saying you take more than a vet means whoever told you that is a dumbass or your hg gear is horribly underdosed. imho I would talk to a few more endocrine drs.

We have a different looking glass on the world, I would like to think looking forward others get stuck in a rut. I mean seriously what business is it of anyones thats not competing, what they are or are not taking? Wonder why no athletes ever speak out against AAS, could it be its not cheating if everyone is on it?!?! Lets out that dirty cheating lance though. AAS may be responsible for a SMALL percent of performance, the great majority is the man. If there was a compound to make your brain more powerful would it be cheating if you took it to further your career?

I believe the drug testing of athletes is as chicken **** as the laws controlling the drugs.

 

[TallTom]

well, that makes a little more sense then someone with simply low "T" levels. TEST is a naturally occurring substance in a mans body. its wat makes us men basically. taking additional amounts of test is hardly cheating.

what I find comical is when ppl like you keep talking about test as being so harmful or "cheating"..... test is a controlled substance yet alcohol and nicotine are not. both are DRUGS! where exactly does alcohol or nicotine occur naturally in ur body????

Staying on point!! You didn't say you were discussing Testoserone in this. And you believe what you want about anything occurring naturally can't ever be too much. Testosterone is taken by athletes to artificially allow their bodies to do things it would never be able to do on its own naturally. Period. That is why it is frowned upon by the governing body. I actually was letting the argument try and get traction on the belief that if everyone does it, then the governing bodies shouldn't be testing for it, and simply allow its use equally by all. Or if the test are unreliable or the test takers cans be questionable then its a worthy debate.

Speaking of staying on point. None of this was ever about whether Lance Armstrong or athletes drink or smoke. It was about them breaking rules set forth by governing bodies, and making a wad of cash doing so. You were the one well versed in Testosterone use, HGH use etc. What sport do you compete in professionally?

 

[GNBRETT]

Testosterone is taken by athletes to artificially allow their bodies to do things it would never be able to do on its own naturally Period.

artificially? your body makes test NATURALLY so that's absolute non sense! its the primary sex hormone found in men.

men take Test as they age normally to replicate what ur body produced when you were in ur late teens or early 20's where test is at its highest. naturally ur body made plenty of Test at some point. as you age it lowers considerable. just like HGH. and some men produce less test then other while others produce a chit load of test naturally. you and just about any other man can get a script of Serostem (HGH) from ur doctor. its expensive but available if you have the loot. its considered the HOLY GRAIL of supplements.

being in ur 30's, 40's, 50's etc... and injecting test to give you the test levels you had when you were younger is hardly harmful. as you age your body produces less test so therefore you need more of it as you age.

so again, what is harmful about Test?

your on Testoserone treatment. what sport do you compete in professionally?

you dont have to be a professional athlete to benifit from test, HGH, Anavar, etc....

the point is the tests that the governing bodies emplore are not accurate so the BREAKING of rules as you say may be broken by some and not by others. THAT is why they have no place in cycling or any other sport for that matter. it is a known FACT that professional athletes use drugs to enhance their performance and health. yes HEALTH.

but like you said RULES are RULES. show me where Armstrong violated the doping rules???? that is what they are hanging their hat on and why they took his titles away from him. if the testing procedures are not accurate then they should not use them.

do you think those that conducted this long and expensive investigation against Armstrong would have done so if he had happen to fail a drug test and test positive to doping? not a chance! but when he passes the drug test it now becomes a he said-she said....

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Lance is King of the Hill and always will be.
Haters hate. Don't care what he's on let's see anyone hump it up a 17 degree French hill for an hour then do 70mph on the down slope! No drug would make me do that

 

[captain]

So to me it's still all speculation.. The witnesses are not credible and they have deals for their testimony.. What ever happened to the real scientific information about Lance armstrong, his lung capacity, his larger heart, there were discovery channel specials on all the research that was done on him and why he was so excellent in this sport.. Is it possible that they guy was just that good and poeple will tear him down at any cost? Not a shred of physical evidence against him... hmmmmm

 

[TallTom]

So this is all a witch hunt then? I'll even go along with, they find ways to get around rules like any other sport. What I don't follow is the argument that everyone uses it, and the test are invalid. They wouldn't be testing for excessive Test if it is a naturally occurring, harmless hormone that everyone makes naturally. No doubt Lance is a gifted athlete in many physical ways. Every one of these guys are gifted athletes, so I will even go along with he had to, to win.

So Lance did nothing wrong, and all the circumstances for his titles being stripped is because everyone in the cycling community has said he was and they believe them over him? I admit there is a lot I don't know about what the Cycling police know or don't know. Or the testing methods used etc. If it is all about faulty enforcement, I can so relate to that. So let's move the big money toward the governing body. Come on big money sponsors. Support Lance, take the light off of him and focus on the governing bodies flawed system, instead of hanging Lance out to dry. Take the governing body to task and clean up the problem. Use Lance as your example of how its a witch hunt, and force the light on them so they are forced to change the way they govern.

Mark McGuire, etc. didn't do it either. They never failed any test. So why was he lying before the Senate and later convicted for that? Why not just say, we all use it and show them why the system is flawed?

You guys that take this stuff for non medical, non professional athlete reasons. How do you get it? Walk right up to your doc and say" Hey I want Test please issue me 4000 units?" Walk in the drugstore and buy it like a Cold capsule? I see plenty of its affects at the gym. And in sports. Everyone is doing it.

So how do you get it? Legally. Nobody except the governing body is doing anything wrong here.

 

[jellyrug]

In the US, most of these are controlled substances, so they need perscriptions, but not in most parts of Europe. If you have a team doctor though, he can write perscripions.
Blood doping is not drugs, they draw 500ml blood, keep it in the refrigerator and re-administer it before a race, more red blood cells cary more oxygen, major oxygen boost to the muscles.
EPO, is injected, it also increases red blood cells. Lance's team doctor (others also) actually had a test machine, similar to that of UCI and if they detect, which is very difficult to do reliably, they inject saline solution, to make the tests negative.
The anabolic steroids and growth hormone, has a window, so they now when to administer so not to test positive.

I can probably say this without getting anyone into trouble, as it was a long time ago, in the 70's and some of these folks have passed away. I rode as juvenile, Junior, turned pro and after turning pro, my whole team doped with the help of a physician. I quit, went back to amature and college to finish an Engineering degree, but I remained friends with these folks. Before the doping started, I was one of the top riders. Three months after the doping started, these guys would leave me in the dust during a training ride.

This sport is unfortunately very dirty and if one competes against an unfair advantage, it is unlikely races will be won. EPO and blood doping adds almost a 20% advantage, the rest aids in faster recovery, which is very important in cyling, as it is mega endurance.

There is a lot of belief, that Lance originally got cancer from hGH and after his recovery, he stopped using it.

 

[GNBRETT]

You guys that take this stuff for non medical, non professional athlete reasons. How do you get it? Walk right up to your doc and say" Hey I want Test please issue me 4000 units?" Walk in the drugstore and buy it like a Cold capsule? I see plenty of its affects at the gym. And in sports. Everyone is doing it.

So how do you get it? Legally. Nobody except the governing body is doing anything wrong here.

just about every man in his late 20's or early 30's starts to drop their Test levels so getting a script for it is easy and what makes you think its non-medical? its a vital aspect of every man. you have to take a blood test and when ur Test levels are low a script is written. pretty simple.

havnt u seen the "Low T" commercials? Is It Low T

there is also topical agents many are prescribed called Androgel and Testim.

you dont need a serious medical condition to get a script for Test. we all lose it as we age.

 

[GNBRETT]

There is a lot of belief, that Lance originally got cancer from hGH and after his recovery, he stopped using it.

well, if you HAVE cancer and use HGH is will surely speed up the growth. I have heard of what you are saying but there is no real evidence to support that.

I think some are just gettn cancer either way and if ur on GH and u get cancer its automatically associated with GIVING someone cancer. maybe it has but no real evidence to show one way or the other.

some people are turning to Egrifta vs. HGH. most getting HGH on the street are getting it from HIV/AIDS patients who are prescribed it when their T-cells go below 200 and an HIV patient is now defined as having AIDS.

same holds true for Egrifta but it doesnt have the same benifits as Serostem. their both so expensive that unless ur makn serious money ud never be able to afford a script from ones doctor anyway which is why many turn to the black market. neither has been known to be counterfieted.

there are plenty of underground labs they sell HGH but not as Serostem.

smeone like Armstrong would surely come off GH if he had cancer tho. even if he was cured cause if a small mass come back the GH would make it grow rapidly.

 

[05 Busa LE]

Ask yourself why the United States Department of Justice, with all of their resources, did not pursue a criminal action against him after an extensive investigation and Grand Jury testimony? You can read all the one-sided reports you want, but until you test them in a court of law (and not arbitration), subject to rules of evidence and cross examination, it's all just a story.

 

[zukracer]

I think its all just a HUGE waste of tax payer money. This foundation built to basically figure this out, the millions of dollars spent to figure out baseball players using drugs and the like. Why does it matter, I mean really. If you make it into that category of player/participant then I guess its something but for the general public does it really matter? I mean if they are all cheating equally as seems to be the suggestion from this half baked witch hunt group would lead you to believe, who cares.

I think its pretty horrible that nothing really that could even be considered as evidence has been presented. The mere suggestion of all of this "huge evidence" seems enough to convict him and cause all manner of issues. Folks are now pulling out of the sport entirely, people that contributed $$ to the Livestrong foundation are asking for their $$ back. One must wonder what the real goal of all of this was and why after all these years they are finally, supposed to be presenting this "evidence".

I am still very much on the fence. I don't believe it until I see the proof and it sure seems the proof isnt coming anytime soon. The collateral damage caused by it all far surpasses the actual one man's possible bad deeds, should they ever be proven.

I still dont think its the right place for the Congress or any govt agency to police private sporting leagues with tax payer money

 

[TallTom]

Well it looks like Ole Lance is gonna come forward and tell the truth for some reason now.

Hmmmmmm. Is this going to be one of those, I did it because everyone else is and the whole sport is dirty kinda stories?

He certainly has lost all credibility by NOW telling the truth. Some argued there had been no real evidence presented and it was all a witch hunt.

There appears to be MOUNTAINS of evidence that pushed him into a corner.

I suspect that he we reveal among other things, massively high levels of testosterone. The little bits I heard thus far seem to show a very raging male with some anger issues. The upside was, he could ride a helluva race.

 

[MO-BUSA]

what's crazy about this whole thing, he tests at the race, didnt test positive, won it, i think that should be end of story, these witch hunts for steroids are just ridiculous.

 

[GNBRETT]

Well it looks like Ole Lance is gonna come forward and tell the truth for some reason now.

Hmmmmmm. Is this going to be one of those, I did it because everyone else is and the whole sport is dirty kinda stories?

He certainly has lost all credibility by NOW telling the truth. Some argued there had been no real evidence presented and it was all a witch hunt.

There appears to be MOUNTAINS of evidence that pushed him into a corner.

I suspect that he we reveal among other things, massively high levels of testosterone. The little bits I heard thus far seem to show a very raging male with some anger issues. The upside was, he could ride a helluva race.

yea im sure testosterone was why lance armstrong won 7 tours.... so I guess professional body builders would likely lap lance armstrong then right? cause I can assure you they certainly use a hell of a lot more testosterone then armstrong did and still do to this day.

are you still living in a fantasy world thinking lance armstrong was the only one using illegal drugs to compete? if he does say he used illegal drugs because everyone else was using them he would be 100% right so whats ur point?

 

[jellyrug]

Hmmmmmm. Is this going to be one of those, I did it because everyone else is and the whole sport is dirty kinda stories?

That's unfortunately where the problem lies, everybody else did it. In fact some of Lance's team mates were very unhappy because they believed Dr. Ferari was way too conservative. In one tour one rider in the entire peleton said the wrong thing about the Imatra (code of silence) and got rejected by the whole peleton. The big issue for Lance now is civil and USPS liability, should he admit, so it will be interesting to see how he plays his cards.

 

[VaBusa]

He comes clean with the truth, he's back on top of the news again, and suddenly he can author books about it all, there will be a movie or 2...it's a money-making decision

 

[TallTom]

yea im sure testosterone was why lance armstrong won 7 tours.... so I guess professional body builders would likely lap lance armstrong then right? cause I can assure you they certainly use a hell of a lot more testosterone then armstrong did and still do to this day.

are you still living in a fantasy world thinking lance armstrong was the only one using illegal drugs to compete? if he does say he used illegal drugs because everyone else was using them he would be 100% right so whats ur point?

No you guys convinced me they all are using. Body Builders have different genetics than cyclist. Football players wouldn't make very good swimmers.

The common theme in testosterone abuse is, if normal levels make me a normal man than 4 times normal will make me 4 times as good a man as I would be normally.

One of the items I heard came out is Armstrong's rage and anger. He apparently went after someone with a baseball bat that crossed him. But as long as he can ride that bike and entertain us..........................