MelodicMetalGod
Registered
And if you weigh 500 lbs? How 'bout 10,000 lbs? At some point, the add'l weight will be greater than the available traction, don't ya think?
motorcycle weight vs. stopping distance
- Thread starter kml
- Start date
And if you weigh 500 lbs? How 'bout 10,000 lbs? At some point, the add'l weight will be greater than the available traction, don't ya think?
"The suspension on a motor vehicle transfers the forward momentum into a downward force." It like you to explain how. I can see it changing the distribution and possibly the deflection, not the direction. What your saying goes against Newtons laws.
"Weight can act in another direction other than down?"
Yes, its momentum. Its why you go through a windshield if your not wearing a seatbelt in an accident.
"Weight can act in another direction other than down?"
Yes, its momentum. Its why you go through a windshield if your not wearing a seatbelt in an accident.
That's what I'm getting at...there has to be a tipping point.
1 lb = no diffference, 200 lbs = difference?
I think we should start a new thread on "Who thinks Alsterbator has been smokin just a little to much weed lately"? 
Obviously the Alsterbator has never tested his theory in the brake zone at the track with his busa against the lighter 600's! FAIL!
Obviously the Alsterbator has never tested his theory in the brake zone at the track with his busa against the lighter 600's! FAIL!
I think we should start a new thread on "Who thinks Alsterbator has been smokin just a little to much weed lately"?
Obviously the Alsterbator has never tested his theory in the brake zone at the track with his busa against the lighter 600's! FAIL!
Yeah turn 1 @ Miller and he will have a different idea on how weight effects braking
Alsterbator
Registered
For the added weight to not be a factor in stopping distance, we must assume that tire traction will increase INFINITELY and in EQUAL or GREATER proportion to the added weight. Now I don't know for sure about what proportion tire traction increases (my guess is it's proportionally LESS than the added weight), but I'm pretty sure that every tire has a traction limit.
Tires have enough traction to allow a motorcycle to exceed 100mph in a turn (Side of tire = less contact patch)... Alot of people here are underestimating the available traction and braking force at their disposal.
Tires have enough traction to allow a motorcycle to exceed 100mph in a turn (Side of tire = less contact patch)... Alot of people here are underestimating the available traction and braking force at their disposal.
Actually the side of the tire has a greater contact patch. I'm assuming we are disussing a sport tire we would find on the Busa.
Alsterbator
Registered
Yes it will, thats one reason they have the GVWR and why you should not exceed it.
MelodicMetalGod
Registered
Tires have enough traction to allow a motorcycle to exceed 100mph in a turn (Side of tire = less contact patch)... Alot of people here are underestimating the available traction and braking force at their disposal.
To clarify, are you proposing that there is no limit to the amount of traction available? ???
Alsterbator
Registered
I think we should start a new thread on "Who thinks Alsterbator has been smokin just a little to much weed lately"?
Obviously the Alsterbator has never tested his theory in the brake zone at the track with his busa against the lighter 600's! FAIL!
Again, you are now throwing in multiple factors: 2 different Riders, 2 sets of tires, 2 different braking systems, 2 completely different bikes...:sarcasm:
This is not a comparison between bikes like you are suggesting, it is a comparison between 1 constant rider, 1 constant bike, 1 constant set of tires, 1 constant braking system... the only variable should be the added weight.
Alsterbator
Registered
Absolutely not, I am well aware of what available traction is.
...or an aircraft carrier? ...or a submarine?
HT_USMC
Registered
Same rider, same day, same conditions...
So you're saying that if we take the braking system off of a Busa and dump it onto a 600, take the tires off the Busa and put it on the 600... the 600 now has same braking distance as the busa did before we took the brakes and tires off of it?
Really?
So you're saying that if we take the braking system off of a Busa and dump it onto a 600, take the tires off the Busa and put it on the 600... the 600 now has same braking distance as the busa did before we took the brakes and tires off of it?
Really?
Alster, bro, you need to pull yer head outta the book and try and apply real world logic. According to you everyone in the AMA should be riding Busa's. A dump truck shouldnt need any more breaking distance full than when empty. A cement truck has the same breaking performance full or empty. You keep overlooking maximum breaking. Yes I can break in 40 feet from 20 miles an hour alone or 2 up WHEN NOT AT MAX. I can not break in the same distance at max breaking if I am heavier. Remeber that based on your theory the opposite would have to be true as well. Im here to tell you that on the same bike, a lighter rider accelerates faster in the same distance!
I would have to say that stopping distance is directly related to tire loading... so there is not a "true" answer that covers all bikes.. I can change the stopping distance of any bike by changing tires and tire pressures along with tire compounds... adding or removing weight may or may not affect the stopping distance depending on the tires.. I could probably show a bike that stops faster on a given set of tires with more weight on the bike and visa versa.. You are going to need ABS to prove much to most however (has been proven to shorten the stopping distance on almost everything ever used on)
All this relates to the truck comment too18 tires on the ground can stop hard enough to pitch you through a windshield..
kml
Donating Member
Interesting read,
cut and paste from
Motorcycle Safety Site
"Heavier Bike vs. Stopping Distance
You should know this before driving down the mountain
By: James R. Davis
There seems to be a continuing belief amongst many of us that stopping distance increases as a direct function of increased vehicle weight. I would like to try again to put this issue to rest.
While it is true that a heavier vehicle requires more energy to brake to a stop than does a lighter vehicle, (there is, after all, more mass involved), that does NOT mean the heavier vehicle takes more time or more distance to stop.
Let's review how your brakes work. Regardless of type (disk or drum), your brakes work by pressing a non-revolving material against a revolving material and, as a result, converting (via friction) the energy from the revolving material into heat. The harder the materials are pressed together, the greater the friction and, as a result, the greater the rate of conversion - i.e., the more braking force applied, the quicker you slow down the revolutions of the wheels, and the hotter the brakes become.
The brakes are also designed to radiate the resulting heat into the environment and, thus, allow the brakes to cool down quickly after they are no longer being used. This is a very important part of their design because the braking material used loses efficiency (reduced friction) with high heat. Indeed, if the braking material gets too hot it can be permanently damaged (it will glaze.)
Brakes on an 18-wheeler are substantially larger than those on your car or motorcycle. That is, brakes come in lots of different sizes - each with the ability to convert a range of energy conversion demands. The bike designers select brakes appropriate for your most demanding requirements. In other words, your brakes are perfectly adequate to totally stop the revolution of your wheels, regardless of how heavy the bike is (until it is severely over weight) or how fast those wheels are turning. Mind you, you can severely overload your bike with luggage and passenger to the point that your brakes might not be up to the task of handling that demand efficiently.
Since you know that you can lock a wheel while the bike is still moving, you know that the braking energy you apply to your brakes is NOT WHAT LIMITS HOW FAST YOU CAN STOP! That limit is determined by the amount of traction your tires have.
Further, since it takes more braking energy to stop (lock) a spinning wheel than to merely slow it down, and because a sliding tire (the result of locking your brake) has less traction than one that is not sliding, your normally functioning brakes are NOT WHAT LIMITS YOUR STOPPING DISTANCE! That limit is also determined by the traction of your tires.
Traction, as we have discussed before, increases with weight. Thus, adding weight decreases your ability to slide the tire and, as a result, gives you the ability to stop more quickly while at the same time increasing the energy that must be converted to heat by your brakes in order to slow down. In effect, adding weight makes it harder to slow at the same time it makes it more possible to do so.
If you so severely overload your bike that the brakes are no longer powerful enough to cause a skid, then you know that the increase in traction gained by that added weight has finally overwhelmed the ability of your brakes and, thus, your brakes then become what limits your stopping ability (time and distance.)
Weight affects your ability to stop in TWO ways:
It takes more energy (braking) to slow a heavier weight
Traction INCREASES as a result of added weight such that more braking can be used without starting a skid.
Thus, adding weight essentially CANCELS itself out as an impact on stopping distance. All that you need to do is apply your brakes harder in order to TOTALLY compensate for added weight.
You know this already, of course. Else, for example, how could a car EVER stop as quickly as a motorcycle? Or, how could a heavy Valkyrie or an Ultra Classic Tour Glide EVER stop as quickly as a little 250 cc street bike? Further, any of you that have taken an MSF class know that there is an exercise (and a skill test) that measures how quickly you can stop your bike while moving in a straight line. Your speed is computed by using a stopwatch and measuring your time through a marked interval. Your stopping distance is read directly from marks on the ground. If, for example, you are traveling at 20 MPH when you begin your braking, then you are expected to stop within 23 feet. NOTE - if you are a 300 pound rider or a 100 pound rider, the results are the same! There is no compensation for weight. Now you know why.
Now, mind you that I have been talking about a panic stop capability - or even normal braking THE FIRST COUPLE OF TIMES. The heavier the bike, however, the more heat is created by using those brakes and braking power diminishes with higher heat. Thus, while on a long mountainside decline, if the time interval between brake usage has not been long enough to let the brakes cool down, then you will find that a heavier bike begins to no longer have the braking power of a lighter bike. THAT is why you use engine braking (a lower gear) when going down a long decline.
But, generally speaking, weight makes no difference in stopping distance because the brakes are more than adequate to handle any normal range of weight for that bike.
Copyright © 1992 - 2008 by The Master Strategy Group, all rights reserved.
Motorcycle Safety Site
(James R. Davis is a recognized expert witness in the fields of Motorcycle Safety/Dynamics.)"
cheers
ken
cut and paste from
Motorcycle Safety Site
"Heavier Bike vs. Stopping Distance
You should know this before driving down the mountain
By: James R. Davis
There seems to be a continuing belief amongst many of us that stopping distance increases as a direct function of increased vehicle weight. I would like to try again to put this issue to rest.
While it is true that a heavier vehicle requires more energy to brake to a stop than does a lighter vehicle, (there is, after all, more mass involved), that does NOT mean the heavier vehicle takes more time or more distance to stop.
Let's review how your brakes work. Regardless of type (disk or drum), your brakes work by pressing a non-revolving material against a revolving material and, as a result, converting (via friction) the energy from the revolving material into heat. The harder the materials are pressed together, the greater the friction and, as a result, the greater the rate of conversion - i.e., the more braking force applied, the quicker you slow down the revolutions of the wheels, and the hotter the brakes become.
The brakes are also designed to radiate the resulting heat into the environment and, thus, allow the brakes to cool down quickly after they are no longer being used. This is a very important part of their design because the braking material used loses efficiency (reduced friction) with high heat. Indeed, if the braking material gets too hot it can be permanently damaged (it will glaze.)
Brakes on an 18-wheeler are substantially larger than those on your car or motorcycle. That is, brakes come in lots of different sizes - each with the ability to convert a range of energy conversion demands. The bike designers select brakes appropriate for your most demanding requirements. In other words, your brakes are perfectly adequate to totally stop the revolution of your wheels, regardless of how heavy the bike is (until it is severely over weight) or how fast those wheels are turning. Mind you, you can severely overload your bike with luggage and passenger to the point that your brakes might not be up to the task of handling that demand efficiently.
Since you know that you can lock a wheel while the bike is still moving, you know that the braking energy you apply to your brakes is NOT WHAT LIMITS HOW FAST YOU CAN STOP! That limit is determined by the amount of traction your tires have.
Further, since it takes more braking energy to stop (lock) a spinning wheel than to merely slow it down, and because a sliding tire (the result of locking your brake) has less traction than one that is not sliding, your normally functioning brakes are NOT WHAT LIMITS YOUR STOPPING DISTANCE! That limit is also determined by the traction of your tires.
Traction, as we have discussed before, increases with weight. Thus, adding weight decreases your ability to slide the tire and, as a result, gives you the ability to stop more quickly while at the same time increasing the energy that must be converted to heat by your brakes in order to slow down. In effect, adding weight makes it harder to slow at the same time it makes it more possible to do so.
If you so severely overload your bike that the brakes are no longer powerful enough to cause a skid, then you know that the increase in traction gained by that added weight has finally overwhelmed the ability of your brakes and, thus, your brakes then become what limits your stopping ability (time and distance.)
Weight affects your ability to stop in TWO ways:
It takes more energy (braking) to slow a heavier weight
Traction INCREASES as a result of added weight such that more braking can be used without starting a skid.
Thus, adding weight essentially CANCELS itself out as an impact on stopping distance. All that you need to do is apply your brakes harder in order to TOTALLY compensate for added weight.
You know this already, of course. Else, for example, how could a car EVER stop as quickly as a motorcycle? Or, how could a heavy Valkyrie or an Ultra Classic Tour Glide EVER stop as quickly as a little 250 cc street bike? Further, any of you that have taken an MSF class know that there is an exercise (and a skill test) that measures how quickly you can stop your bike while moving in a straight line. Your speed is computed by using a stopwatch and measuring your time through a marked interval. Your stopping distance is read directly from marks on the ground. If, for example, you are traveling at 20 MPH when you begin your braking, then you are expected to stop within 23 feet. NOTE - if you are a 300 pound rider or a 100 pound rider, the results are the same! There is no compensation for weight. Now you know why.
Now, mind you that I have been talking about a panic stop capability - or even normal braking THE FIRST COUPLE OF TIMES. The heavier the bike, however, the more heat is created by using those brakes and braking power diminishes with higher heat. Thus, while on a long mountainside decline, if the time interval between brake usage has not been long enough to let the brakes cool down, then you will find that a heavier bike begins to no longer have the braking power of a lighter bike. THAT is why you use engine braking (a lower gear) when going down a long decline.
But, generally speaking, weight makes no difference in stopping distance because the brakes are more than adequate to handle any normal range of weight for that bike.
Copyright © 1992 - 2008 by The Master Strategy Group, all rights reserved.
Motorcycle Safety Site
(James R. Davis is a recognized expert witness in the fields of Motorcycle Safety/Dynamics.)"
cheers
ken
jellyrug
Donating Member
Hey dude, I'm sorry you did not understand that, and about studying harder, 7 years after school was enough for me. But I believe I actually did this stuff in grade 9.
There is another dude who found this out in 1589, his name was Galileo, he dropped two bodies one big and one small out of Pisa, to demonstrate that the times of their fall would be equal. Exactly the same principles apply still today on your motorcycle.
Now if you ask me nicely, I'll explain to you why ABS really works.
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