Daddy Fatsac
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...so how did it go?
New toy
- Thread starter SierraFlyer
- Start date
Sierra, I was wondering what percentage you set the idle at
on the Teka? I am playing with mine now and was wondering. I know that you will be leaner than I since I am at 1320ft and not 6000ft, but still I was wondering where your settings were at. Let me know and PM or e-mail me and we can compare notes on the tuning with this box. Also what exhaust do you have? I have the Akra bolt ons and I am thinking I need to lean mine out more, I am only getting around 28-30 mpg and that is being easy on the bike.
SierraFlyer
Registered
I have been slacking still. No TEKA runs yet. I know I'm an ass so please don't send hate mail.
Loboboy - I don't remember the exact setting on idle here at work but can hook up the unit and get it. It was around 60%. This was significantly richer than stock. Stock is way too lean. Plus I am running the small airbox mod (cut out the flapper and surrounding plastic to the filter edge) and Akrapovich race full system and the BMC race filter. Oh, I have a switchable TRE also. It is on all the time. I also enriched the off-idle a little from stock. This resulted in the well over 42 MPG at 6000ft. Before the MPG was closer to 35. The only way I can explain this is that the richer mixture is closer to best mix for max power and to cruise at freeway speed needs less throttle opening to make the same power? Less throttle = less air mixture = proportionally less fuel used per mile. This is just better efficiency and not magic.
I would think that my settings would apply to any altitude. The Ambient Air Pressure sensor is what the ECU uses to determine the air density (along with Ambient Air Temp). The two sensors - temp and pressure - give density. Density is what the motor uses to make power. The ECU therefore meters fuel flow to the air density. As we change altitude, the mixture is automatically adjusted by the ECU curves that the TEKA modifies. So I don't have to re-map the ECU each time I run down the hill. The TEKA settings would be the same for my bike at any altitude. Your bike would be similar - only differing by the different modifications you have done to your airflow restrictions. Or said another way - My settings would be very close to yours for any altitude.
So from stock you want to enrich by a good margin. In idle I bumped it up until the engine ran smoothest without touching the throttle. The off-idle is done in neutral at 9000RPM (no load). Change the setting until throttle cracks at that RPM are the crispest and fastest. This is following the instructions.
According to Factory, each setting effects the ones above it. So if you enrich idle, all settings above that are enriched too. That is why we have to start at small throttle openings and then move up to full throttle in sequence. I will bet that my mid throttle settings are now too rich. Another thing we have to remember is the curves are 8-10% richer than optimum at full throttle to match the pressurized airbox due to ram air. So if you do full throttle runs in 1st gear (low speed and ram air pressure) to set the TEKA, once it is optimized go in and enrich 8% at least. This has to be done using your TRE if you use one so the 5th gear map is set. If you don't have the TRE then you will have to do the runs in 5th or 6th at full throttle to optimize! Your speeding ticket will be much more expensive but you don't have to go back and add 8%.
Loboboy - I don't remember the exact setting on idle here at work but can hook up the unit and get it. It was around 60%. This was significantly richer than stock. Stock is way too lean. Plus I am running the small airbox mod (cut out the flapper and surrounding plastic to the filter edge) and Akrapovich race full system and the BMC race filter. Oh, I have a switchable TRE also. It is on all the time. I also enriched the off-idle a little from stock. This resulted in the well over 42 MPG at 6000ft. Before the MPG was closer to 35. The only way I can explain this is that the richer mixture is closer to best mix for max power and to cruise at freeway speed needs less throttle opening to make the same power? Less throttle = less air mixture = proportionally less fuel used per mile. This is just better efficiency and not magic.
I would think that my settings would apply to any altitude. The Ambient Air Pressure sensor is what the ECU uses to determine the air density (along with Ambient Air Temp). The two sensors - temp and pressure - give density. Density is what the motor uses to make power. The ECU therefore meters fuel flow to the air density. As we change altitude, the mixture is automatically adjusted by the ECU curves that the TEKA modifies. So I don't have to re-map the ECU each time I run down the hill. The TEKA settings would be the same for my bike at any altitude. Your bike would be similar - only differing by the different modifications you have done to your airflow restrictions. Or said another way - My settings would be very close to yours for any altitude.
So from stock you want to enrich by a good margin. In idle I bumped it up until the engine ran smoothest without touching the throttle. The off-idle is done in neutral at 9000RPM (no load). Change the setting until throttle cracks at that RPM are the crispest and fastest. This is following the instructions.
According to Factory, each setting effects the ones above it. So if you enrich idle, all settings above that are enriched too. That is why we have to start at small throttle openings and then move up to full throttle in sequence. I will bet that my mid throttle settings are now too rich. Another thing we have to remember is the curves are 8-10% richer than optimum at full throttle to match the pressurized airbox due to ram air. So if you do full throttle runs in 1st gear (low speed and ram air pressure) to set the TEKA, once it is optimized go in and enrich 8% at least. This has to be done using your TRE if you use one so the 5th gear map is set. If you don't have the TRE then you will have to do the runs in 5th or 6th at full throttle to optimize! Your speeding ticket will be much more expensive but you don't have to go back and add 8%.
Johnnycheese
Registered
doesn't compensate as much as you think
SierraFlyer
Registered
What do mean Johnny, which part doesn't work?
Johnnycheese
Registered
the sensors only compensate to a point. this is why the PC2's work great in one season and poor in another or in different elevations.
even with injector tuning you run into the same problems. Motorcycles are not as good as cars and cars are only OK with these types of changes (altitude and temp and air pressure).
PS becarefull with that mixture without O2 sensor reading good fuel mileage can mean toooo lean
even with injector tuning you run into the same problems. Motorcycles are not as good as cars and cars are only OK with these types of changes (altitude and temp and air pressure).
PS becarefull with that mixture without O2 sensor reading good fuel mileage can mean toooo lean
SierraFlyer
Registered
Good points - I am not worried about being a little lean of max HP at part throttle and part load (like cruising on the freeway). Great mileage is better. At full throttle and under load I would be more concerned about tetonation. So since I don't have a sniffer or Dyno, I will leave it at max MPG in the mid ranges and then fatten it up a few % at higher throttle openings to get the most HP. Then add mixture for ram air effects? Articles I read said the ram air is good for an 8% increase in HP at top speed. That means the air density is increased by that amount and in turn the mixture needs 8% more fuel to maintain the best HP fuel/air ratio at top speed. But since the pressure rise is a square of the velocity, most of that increase in pressure is at 175 MPH and above. Since most of us rarely get above 120-130 MPH on the street or track, I would think only an additional percent or two increase in mixture at 100% throttle is about right for the small pressure rise at 120-130MPH. Of course a top speed run at that mixture would lean out as you get to max speed and cause damage.
How do you compensate for ram air pressure increases on the dyno. Since the bike is not moving thru the air on your dyno, you have the same missing ram air problem to deal with as anyone without a dyno?
If I feel the need, the TEKA can tweak the settings in less than an hour at any altitude or anywhere. Then at a different track the next day I can do it again. For the road it is not that important to remap all the time. I just can't touch the timing in the ECU.
How do you compensate for ram air pressure increases on the dyno. Since the bike is not moving thru the air on your dyno, you have the same missing ram air problem to deal with as anyone without a dyno?
If I feel the need, the TEKA can tweak the settings in less than an hour at any altitude or anywhere. Then at a different track the next day I can do it again. For the road it is not that important to remap all the time. I just can't touch the timing in the ECU.
I noticed you have a switchable TRE, with that in mind this question is for Johnny. Is the ATRE better since you can program which gear map you use? I talked with Marc at Factory and we discussed that the 4th gear map would be best for 1st 2nd 3rd gears. Am I understanding that with the ATRE you can program gears 1 2 3 to use which ever map you would like? Give me some info on this because my idle in nuetral is horrible, pull in the clutch and it smooths out perfect, help me please. Johnny, I am going to try and schedule some time to drive down from Kansas to let you play with this and help me figure it out if you want. Thanks again for all the help both of you and between all of us we can figure this thing out to a T.
Johnnycheese
Registered
SF that is where a sniffer helps. you set it at about 12:8 A/F to compensate for lack of ram air but only if in 4th gear. As stated if you use 5th it will add more fuel. so with ATRE leave it off with TRE and you feel you need it?? take timing out and map even richer due to you will run lean in 5th and 6th.
Also Ram air starts at 38MPH
Also Ram air starts at 38MPH
Considering my lack of a full exhaust and air box mod I enrichened the idle to 40% and the 10% throttle setting to 25% and man did it make a huge difference. The bike is alot smoother and the power is instantaneous below 2000 RPM. under 2000 and twist to about 25% throttle and you are looking to the sky, it is nice. The only issue I am wondering about is the fuel mileage. It dropped to around 23 when in town and on it hard. i guess I didn't but it for a good gas mileage vehicle so I will live with it. I need to find a Dyno for the rest of the tuning, and I am going to order an ATRE programmable unit. I will be away for two weeks but will check back later.
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