Obama faults himself

[StromBusa]

Not to start a fight with other brother Busa riders, but most liberals look at the world that way. They feel they are so enlightened and so much more intelligent than the rest of the world. They don't understand why we can't see things as clearly as they can. It's sheer narcissism to a degree that I honestly believe most of them are genuinely mentally ill.

And then they start doing us good.....

 

[III]

How the hell do you know what I go off of....???

You know exactly how I know...it was pointed out the last time you posted your "useful" information.

You can interpret AT&T's actions however you wish, but it appears that this is their way trying to make a statement for not getting the $1M kickback (subisdy) from the gov't. AT&T's CEO contributes heavily to the GOP, so it looks as if he's using his personal ideologies and making a statement, which doesn't surprise me. It's actually saving the taxpayers money, which is what I thought was ultimately the center of most of your issues.

Can you say...CEOs being greedy pr!icks!!!

 

[StromBusa]

Ya know, in my feeble litle mind, CEO's make their money by managing their corporations to the extent that they make money for their investors and collegues. An important part of that success is making decisions that enable them to "Sell" to the consumers. That being said, they are voted in by our wallets so to speak. If they move production for example, it is because the consumer is buying form someone else, so they try to level the playing field or cost structure as it may be. I think the whole thing is called "capitalism". Sort of like foot ball (or baseBALL, hockey, basketball...) and the good ones make more money than we think they deserve, but guess what, if you want a winning team, some are willing to pay. Americal needs some winning teams or we are out of the game.

 

[Vonderbach]

Ya know, in my feeble litle mind, CEO's make their money by managing their corporations to the extent that they make money for their investors and collegues. An important part of that success is making decisions that enable them to "Sell" to the consumers. That being said, they are voted in by our wallets so to speak. If they move production for example, it is because the consumer is buying form someone else, so they try to level the playing field or cost structure as it may be. I think the whole thing is called "capitalism". Sort of like foot ball (or baseBALL, hockey, basketball...) and the good ones make more money than we think they deserve, but guess what, if you want a winning team, some are willing to pay. Americal needs some winning teams or we are out of the game.

Someone that gets it ^^^

 

[Snakers]

Yes, for those of us that work, capitalism is great.

Unfortunately, our country grows more liberal and progressively strides away from capitalism.

 

[Vonderbach]

Voluntary socialism is a wonderful system...also known as charity or in some regards, employment. The problem with socialism is when the government mandates it.

Unemployment is a temporary condition in a purely capitalistic society. Unfortunately, we haven't seen anything remotely close to that in our lifetimes....that goes for the geezers too.

 

[III]

Ya know, in my feeble litle mind, CEO's make their money by managing their corporations to the extent that they make money for their investors and collegues. An important part of that success is making decisions that enable them to "Sell" to the consumers. That being said, they are voted in by our wallets so to speak. If they move production for example, it is because the consumer is buying form someone else, so they try to level the playing field or cost structure as it may be. I think the whole thing is called "capitalism". Sort of like foot ball (or baseBALL, hockey, basketball...) and the good ones make more money than we think they deserve, but guess what, if you want a winning team, some are willing to pay. Americal needs some winning teams or we are out of the game.

I agree with most of this, but ultimately, they still have salary caps (and the one's that don't are working towards it) and have rules to abide by.
Just like CEOs are hired to do their jobs, the President is elected to govern on behalf of the people. 98% of the population appears to be more like the people the bill is looking to assist, as opposed to the other 2% that resemble the CEOs and their constituents. Unfortunately that 2% has enough power and ability to obstruct and misinform, which leads to the situation we have now. They've done a masterful job of sabotaging and fooling those that go for it.

 

[Snakers]

I agree with most of this, but ultimately, they still have salary caps (and the one's that don't are working towards it) and have rules to abide by.
Just like CEOs are hired to do their jobs, the President is elected to govern on behalf of the people. 98% of the population appears to be more like the people the bill is looking to assist, as opposed to the other 2% that resemble the CEOs and their constituents. Unfortunately that 2% has enough power and ability to obstruct and misinform, which leads to the situation we have now. They've done a masterful job of sabotaging and fooling those that go for it.

I guess its unfathomable to think that there are people in this country that CAN take care of themselves and WANT TO take care of themselves and become angry when they are REQUIRED to have government MANDATED programs for things that they can do themselves.

 

[Vonderbach]

I agree with most of this, but ultimately, they still have salary caps (and the one's that don't are working towards it) and have rules to abide by. Just like CEOs are hired to do their jobs, the President is elected to govern on behalf of the people. 98% of the population appears to be more like the people the bill is looking to assist, as opposed to the other 2% that resemble the CEOs and their constituents. Unfortunately that 2% has enough power and ability to obstruct and misinform, which leads to the situation we have now. They've done a masterful job of sabotaging and fooling those that go for it.

I'm not sure I understand, are you claiming that these companies are lying about the health care costs? Because if they're lying, then so is the CBO and numerous economists.

 

[III]

I guess its unfathomable to think that there are people in this country that CAN take care of themselves and WANT TO take care of themselves and become angry when they are REQUIRED to have government MANDATED programs for things that they can do themselves.

Of course it's fathomable that there's a large number of disappointed people over certain issues when the election results were somewhere in the neighborhood of 55/45, if not closer. Both parties have become so polarized that when there are disagreements, the minority still has a loud enough voice to be heard when they voice their displeasure. Believe it or not, I don't disagree with your statement. I guess I'm just trying to think a little further ahead in the equation. I think we've exhausted our productiveness and our resources that will allow us to sustain ourselves as a country, which puts us in one hell of a predicament given the rate the population continues to grow. Given the tenets this country was based on, I don't think the answer is to draw a line in the sand and say every man for themselves. I do think the current healthcare bill has major flaws the way that it was finally submitted, but there does need to be some availability for healthcare for those that don't have it. It's not perfect, and it has a lot of opposition from the other side which has hampered it's effectiveness due to heavy insurance industry lobbying, but I think if we allow it to evolve, I think the Americans that need to benefit from it, will. Initially, the Civil Rights Bill didn't encompass everything that those it benefitted probably thought it should have either, but it was a start. That's sort of how I see this. Does this soon to be enacted bill have major flaws...HELL YES. The current system is broke, and if you think that lack of medical coverage is only for those that are unemployed or poor...well that's just naive. We'd also be naive to think that a monster as large as insurance industry is just going to just roll over and give up so easily. It's going to be a knockdown, drag out fight that's going to do a significant amount of damage to those that oppose it. I'm also not saying that I trust the gov't more than a corporation or industry, because at this point, they're pretty close to being the same thing...however (we) can stop the gov't through elections. Who's gonna stop an industry? I think if we allow this to fail, the insurance industry becomes even more untouchable, I happen to think that's the last industry that should wield that kind of power.

I'm not sure I understand, are you claiming that these companies are lying about the health care costs? Because if they're lying, then so is the CBO and numerous economists.

Hopefully the above explains. They aren't lying about the costs, they're being subversive about losing the gov't subsidy, which seems to be the crux of the whole "everything is costing us money" debate. I understand the cost of doing business very well, and it appears that shareholder loyalties far outweigh the better good of the people, which wouldn't seem to me to be the best practices for the "living" business. We have other arenas like Wall St. for people with those intentions and morals. So this is what we have...the gov't is taking steps to make these large corporations stand on their own by taking away their subsidies, the companies then bend the American people over the barrel and start f*(k!n@ instead of getting the hint, and people are losing their s#!t at the gov't for actually taking the actions that those very people have been demanding.

Please forgive if I'm way off-base here, but it just seems like the shakedown of all shakedowns. It's like we're a business owner, the insurance industry is the mafia, and the gov't is the police, who is actually trying to do something about it. Should we as the business owners continue to allow them to conduct business as usual, or should we allow the cops to intervene...even though we know it means we could get killed? Probably a poor analogy, but that's what I'm seeing.

 

[Justyntym]

You know exactly how I know...it was pointed out the last time you posted your "useful" information.

I know that you know that I know that you know....good grief...3rd grade all
over again...and you pointed out nothing and offer as much to any discussion.

Enjoy the hope and change, obviously you've earned it (while it lasts, about
39 more days to go).

 

[Justyntym]

The point is that it is a good THEORY that can never be implemented and should never be implemented because you can never eliminate the human element...much like socialism...Should never be implemented...

Its about understanding why a concept that looks good on paper, should never be implemented. Obama's concept of a socialized America that looks good on paper, should never be implemented...

Its about conclusions, understanding.

It's not a "good" theory if it will never work...it's a misguided failure because
it does not take into account the human element.

I fully understand the concept on all sides, and again...Superior ???.

 

[III]

I know that you know that I know that you know....good grief...3rd grade all
over again...and you pointed out nothing and offer as much to any discussion.

Thanks. It's too bad that you think my perspective offers nothing, especially since most of my responses are the only thing that keeps your little bash parties going. I know you think the false reference I called you on is minor but in the context you were trying to use it in, it was huge, and had you caught me or anyone else posting it, I suspect you'd do the same thing. It seems to me like you're becoming the site's conservative Michael Moore. Yeah, a lot of the stuff you say may have some merit, but a lot of it is grossly exaggerated.

I'll stop picking on you, if you want me to.

 

[afterhours]

oh my god....I am so tired of hearing about how much CEO's make. I am so tired of people talking about being poor. in the year 2010, in the good ol' USA...the poor people have cell phones. we talk of the middle class, with a house, two $40k cars and kids going to college....people talk about not being able to afford healthcare insurance, while driving new cars and buying ipods and cells for thier kids.

we have no idea about being poor anymore....

we as a country are fat, lazy and feel entitled....

we need to look around, see how other people are forced to live(in shacks,huts, etc...) talk to our parents and grandparents about what life was like when they were young.

 

[StromBusa]

oh my god....I am so tired of hearing about how much CEO's make. I am so tired of people talking about being poor. in the year 2010, in the good ol' USA...the poor people have cell phones. we talk of the middle class, with a house, two $40k cars and kids going to college....people talk about not being able to afford healthcare insurance, while driving new cars and buying ipods and cells for thier kids.

we have no idea about being poor anymore....

we as a country are fat, lazy and feel entitled....

we need to look around, see how other people are forced to live(in shacks,huts, etc...) talk to our parents and grandparents about what life was like when they were young.

+1000, & peeps want to work for a champagne wage & pay beer prices.... me me me..

 

[Justyntym]

Thanks. It's too bad that you think my perspective offers nothing, especially since most of my responses are the only thing that keeps your little bash parties going. I know you think the false reference I called you on is minor but in the context you were trying to use it in, it was huge, and had you caught me or anyone else posting it, I suspect you'd do the same thing. It seems to me like you're becoming the site's conservative Michael Moore. Yeah, a lot of the stuff you say may have some merit, but a lot of it is grossly exaggerated.

I'll stop picking on you, if you want me to.

Picking on me ??? hadn't noticed-go for it.

I'm Michael Moore That is funny...I was kinda thinking you sound like
the woa'sme them evil people Jesse Jackson of the well, Jesse Jackson's party.
(funny too how you couldn't come up with a Michael Moore Consevitive
equivalent , what does that tell us ???)

 

[cipher5791]

Thanks. It's too bad that you think my perspective offers nothing, especially since most of my responses are the only thing that keeps your little bash parties going. I know you think the false reference I called you on is minor but in the context you were trying to use it in, it was huge, and had you caught me or anyone else posting it, I suspect you'd do the same thing. It seems to me like you're becoming the site's conservative Michael Moore. Yeah, a lot of the stuff you say may have some merit, but a lot of it is grossly exaggerated.

I'll stop picking on you, if you want me to.

Hey bro, I gave this mess up a long time ago. You can not change the mind of a person who sees things their way and only their way. You have some good points but it will not get a voice here.

 

[Schexy1]

Picking on me ??? hadn't noticed-go for it.

I'm Michael Moore That is funny...I was kinda thinking you sound like
the woa'sme them evil people Jesse Jackson of the well, Jesse Jackson's party.
(funny too how you couldn't come up with a Michael Moore Consevitive
equivalent , what does that tell us ???)

Actually there are several conservative Micheal Moore equivalents, calling you one of them would be...well...a compliment.

 

[mofuggahere]

Hey bro, I gave this mess up a long time ago. You can not change the mind of a person who sees things their way and only their way. You have some good points but it will not get a voice here.

No joke. Reminds me of my ex wife.

 

[captain]

oh my god....I am so tired of hearing about how much CEO's make. I am so tired of people talking about being poor. in the year 2010, in the good ol' USA...the poor people have cell phones. we talk of the middle class, with a house, two $40k cars and kids going to college....people talk about not being able to afford healthcare insurance, while driving new cars and buying ipods and cells for thier kids.

we have no idea about being poor anymore....

we as a country are fat, lazy and feel entitled....

we need to look around, see how other people are forced to live(in shacks,huts, etc...) talk to our parents and grandparents about what life was like when they were young.

AMEN! Its all about perspective and what people perceive to be fair....