Ok...APE's Crank Services...
- Thread starter Daddy Fatsac
- Start date
SLEEPERBUSA
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You'll be fine!
There are lots of peple that have stroked APE cranks in their Busas and have been running for a long time!
A stroker crank will make a motor rev LOWER, not higher.
The stroke WILL raise the compression a bit.
Cometic sells a .020 base gasket that will lower compression just a bit. I would look into it. The stock base gasket is .010
http://www.cometic.com/home/home.htm
I would also tell John that you want a Cometic haed gasket. It "prolly" comes with one, but make sure.
There are lots of peple that have stroked APE cranks in their Busas and have been running for a long time!
A stroker crank will make a motor rev LOWER, not higher.
The stroke WILL raise the compression a bit.
Cometic sells a .020 base gasket that will lower compression just a bit. I would look into it. The stock base gasket is .010
http://www.cometic.com/home/home.htm
I would also tell John that you want a Cometic haed gasket. It "prolly" comes with one, but make sure.
Daddy Fatsac
Registered
Ok...I'm going to do some research in this department. Base gasket will most likely be added to one of the things needing to be replaced. Thanks for the info bud! You might have just saved me somemore money. Might as well do it while its still in pieces.
Daddy Fatsac
Registered
Yeah I spoke with John today through e-mail. He said that head gaskets that come with the kit should be alright. Keyword being should. But if you wanna be on the safe side get the HP gasket. Now I'm not quite sure what a HP gasket is. I'm going to take a wild jab at it, could it be High Pressure gasket. If so...where do I get one? From what I keep hearing is that Cometic is the way to go and nothing less. I'll be giving them a call in the morning.
From all the changes...my baby is looking to be ready sometime mid July. I can't breath without her.
From all the changes...my baby is looking to be ready sometime mid July. I can't breath without her.
hayaboosta
Registered
The HP gasket is the new generation head gasket from Cometic. It has a floating "ring" to help seal the combustion chambers. If installed correctly they have worked fine with big bores and turbo's. Tell John if the kit does not have a HP to put one in the kit (swap + a couple $).
I am not telling you NOT to lighten the crankshaft, I was commenting on the fact I have seen many people have too much weight removed and it affected their riding style in an adverce way. If anything, I wanted you to clearly state to APE what your itentions were with the bike, i.e. street light to street light, drag only, twisties...
I never hurts to have the crank balanced. I would have to say that Suzuki's have the best balance of the big inline fours that I have dealt with, usually under a gram and a quarter out. I have seen Yamaha FJ 1200's out over and ounce!
I am not telling you NOT to lighten the crankshaft, I was commenting on the fact I have seen many people have too much weight removed and it affected their riding style in an adverce way. If anything, I wanted you to clearly state to APE what your itentions were with the bike, i.e. street light to street light, drag only, twisties...
I never hurts to have the crank balanced. I would have to say that Suzuki's have the best balance of the big inline fours that I have dealt with, usually under a gram and a quarter out. I have seen Yamaha FJ 1200's out over and ounce!
Daddy Fatsac
Registered
I was all over that HP gasket. I had to do a couple days research to find out...but found out the head gasket was $92 and the base was $23 (direct from company). I'll see what John can do for me.
Ok...now I have a different question to go with all this. Let’s say I decide to go 1397cc 84mm piston kit (81mm stock). Besides giving me a hell of a lot of horsepower, does gas consumption increase? Would that even be drivable in the twistes? I have ZERO plans of extending the swing arm. Shed some light on this topic for me. Cuz it won't cost an additional $350 to go true big bore. I'm going though my pros and cons right now. And maybe a stage 3 done to the cylinders...I'm still thinking
Ok...now I have a different question to go with all this. Let’s say I decide to go 1397cc 84mm piston kit (81mm stock). Besides giving me a hell of a lot of horsepower, does gas consumption increase? Would that even be drivable in the twistes? I have ZERO plans of extending the swing arm. Shed some light on this topic for me. Cuz it won't cost an additional $350 to go true big bore. I'm going though my pros and cons right now. And maybe a stage 3 done to the cylinders...I'm still thinking
YER INTO A WHOLE NEW WORLD HERE Daddy Fat . Yer gonna have a big bore,this-that, jacked-up. Yadda Yadda Yadda . To tell ya the truth....I'd be suprised if you can even get it to idle smooth .
NOT KNOCKIN' U....or yer mods .
I hate this site sum times . Every fuggin' thing has 2 have a fuggin disclaimer attached 2 it .
SHE'S GONNA BE HUGE . yer a lucky boy .
Daddy Fatsac
Registered
Ok...the final plans have been laid. I will not be going with the 1397cc pistons. Why? Because the pistons are not economical, couldn’t afford the gas then, and other minor reasons. I want her to stay drivable as much as possible. She won't be used for drags.
I WILL be going Stage 3 though. She will stay at 1410cc. But SOOO many engine mods...I can't wait till she done. Now the big thing is to find a decent priced...BUT good port polishing place. APE from what I hear is good...but they want $960 to do the cylinders. I think that’s a little high. If anyone knows a better place please let me know.
Also for those that didn't know, Wiseco pistons use Cometic gaskets. Just found that today. Also Cometic uses .030 thickness gaskets that contain iron to make them stronger. This is the HP (High Performance) series gaskets.
I WILL be going Stage 3 though. She will stay at 1410cc. But SOOO many engine mods...I can't wait till she done. Now the big thing is to find a decent priced...BUT good port polishing place. APE from what I hear is good...but they want $960 to do the cylinders. I think that’s a little high. If anyone knows a better place please let me know.
Also for those that didn't know, Wiseco pistons use Cometic gaskets. Just found that today. Also Cometic uses .030 thickness gaskets that contain iron to make them stronger. This is the HP (High Performance) series gaskets.
SLEEPERBUSA
Registered
Ok, Lots of stuff here.
You can go big nore and NOT affect the driveability or dependability at all!
It will burn more gas, but so will your stroked crank.
More people have had stroke problems, than bore problems.
You talked about Port and Polish, and then Cylinders in the same context. They are 2 different parts, unless I misread what you typed.
1 of the best head porters in the country is Bob Carpenter.
http://www.carpenterracing.com/links.htm
$1260 will get you THE best post job (with stock size valves) out there.
Thats CnC porting, valve job and new valve springs, return shipping with insurance.
If you are NOT boring the cylinders, there is no price incurred there.
The 5mm stroke will give you tons of torque!
The 1397 will give you tons of torque!
What cams are you going to use?
You can go big nore and NOT affect the driveability or dependability at all!
It will burn more gas, but so will your stroked crank.
More people have had stroke problems, than bore problems.
You talked about Port and Polish, and then Cylinders in the same context. They are 2 different parts, unless I misread what you typed.
1 of the best head porters in the country is Bob Carpenter.
http://www.carpenterracing.com/links.htm
$1260 will get you THE best post job (with stock size valves) out there.
Thats CnC porting, valve job and new valve springs, return shipping with insurance.
If you are NOT boring the cylinders, there is no price incurred there.
The 5mm stroke will give you tons of torque!
The 1397 will give you tons of torque!
What cams are you going to use?
Daddy Fatsac
Registered
That was my mistake about the $960 cylinders...its should be $960 port job. Thank you for catching that.
I was orginally going to go with Yoshimura stage 1 cams. But then decided to go with APE's cams and sloted sprockets.
I decided not to go with the oversized pistons. I think the stroke will be good enough for now. But due to the huge bottle next in the ports, they need to be done.
Geezus...the price just keeps getting higher on the porting. Have you had yours done?
I was orginally going to go with Yoshimura stage 1 cams. But then decided to go with APE's cams and sloted sprockets.
I decided not to go with the oversized pistons. I think the stroke will be good enough for now. But due to the huge bottle next in the ports, they need to be done.
Geezus...the price just keeps getting higher on the porting. Have you had yours done?
SLEEPERBUSA
Registered
I am a big fan of a ported head, HOWEVER, there is NO "big bottle neck" in a Busa head. It's 1 of the best flowing heads ever to be produced and is NOT "necessary" to be ported.
If money is an issue, don't do it. If Money is no problem, do it.
LOTS of people run stock heads on big Busa motors.
Set the cams at 104in/106ex and the motor will have buttloads of torque for rolling out of corners!
This motor should be a "stump puller"..........
Don't let APE talk you into their HEAD STUDS!
Stock bolts are stronger!
You'll benifit in a Oil pump gear and Starter gear, and a Yuasa YTZ14S battery !
Main cap studs are a good inverment also.
Long story short.
Parts distributers and machine shops is in business to sell parts and labor.
Just because a manufacturer sells a part, doesn't make it "needed".
If money is an issue, don't do it. If Money is no problem, do it.
LOTS of people run stock heads on big Busa motors.
Set the cams at 104in/106ex and the motor will have buttloads of torque for rolling out of corners!
This motor should be a "stump puller"..........
Don't let APE talk you into their HEAD STUDS!
Stock bolts are stronger!
You'll benifit in a Oil pump gear and Starter gear, and a Yuasa YTZ14S battery !
Main cap studs are a good inverment also.
Long story short.
Parts distributers and machine shops is in business to sell parts and labor.
Just because a manufacturer sells a part, doesn't make it "needed".
Daddy Fatsac
Registered
Are you using thier Hardweld cams? If so which one?
What do you know about thier stainless steel valves, thier titainum retainers, and springs?
What do you know about thier stainless steel valves, thier titainum retainers, and springs?
hayaboosta
Registered
APE has their cams made by Web Cams, you must supply cores due to their reweld/hardface process. The Web/APE cams are fine, the Yosh cams work well also. The Yosh cams are sold outright. If you are spending the majority of your time on the street, there is really no need for the "big" cams, ti retainers or valves.
I would consider foregoing the valves and retainers and put that $ towards the head work. I agree with Sleeper on the oil pump gear, it helps, also the crank studs would be added insurance with that monster of yours. The springs are highly suggested, and I am not sold on the Motorhead claim that the APE studs are worse than stock. I have yet to have an issue with them on any of the 'Busa's, but have seen a few pushed head gaskets with OEM bolts. For extreme mods, the M-head studs are great (the motor has to be disassembled and the case sent to him), and with studs you hinder the ability to remove the top end in chassis (not an issue for me).
Just my couple cents...
I would consider foregoing the valves and retainers and put that $ towards the head work. I agree with Sleeper on the oil pump gear, it helps, also the crank studs would be added insurance with that monster of yours. The springs are highly suggested, and I am not sold on the Motorhead claim that the APE studs are worse than stock. I have yet to have an issue with them on any of the 'Busa's, but have seen a few pushed head gaskets with OEM bolts. For extreme mods, the M-head studs are great (the motor has to be disassembled and the case sent to him), and with studs you hinder the ability to remove the top end in chassis (not an issue for me).
Just my couple cents...
SLEEPERBUSA
Registered
I didn't know that Web did APE's cams.
I wouldn't have them!
This is only MY experience, BUT. My Buddy wiped out a set of Web cams with 3 heat cycles, a trip around the block and they died on the dyno, while tuning!
The lady at Web asked JohnnyCheese for all the speks on the head, because she thought something was wrong there. When Johnny called her with the info that she asked for, she said send the cams back and we will fix them for free.
They were the billet cams tho.
They denied having a cam problem, BUT they NOW have added a hardener to the faces of the cam lobes. You don't have to admit a problem. The fact that they added an extra step in the cam process and added money, was enough of an admission.
I use Megacycle , but have used Yosh and I was happy with them, Just not big enough for me!
Stay away from the Ti retainers.
Many race engine builders use the stock aluminium ones.
People have reported that the Ti retainers oblong after awhile. That will cause you to drop a valve and destroy everything in sight!
I useTHEMOTORHEAD head bolts in my race motor.
Those things are HUGE!
Prolly slow me down with all the added weight.
Don't be scared of the stock headbolts with the good head gasket.
You'll be fine.
And like Boosta said, you can still remove the top end, if you have to, in the frame.
I wouldn't have them!
This is only MY experience, BUT. My Buddy wiped out a set of Web cams with 3 heat cycles, a trip around the block and they died on the dyno, while tuning!
The lady at Web asked JohnnyCheese for all the speks on the head, because she thought something was wrong there. When Johnny called her with the info that she asked for, she said send the cams back and we will fix them for free.
They were the billet cams tho.
They denied having a cam problem, BUT they NOW have added a hardener to the faces of the cam lobes. You don't have to admit a problem. The fact that they added an extra step in the cam process and added money, was enough of an admission.
I use Megacycle , but have used Yosh and I was happy with them, Just not big enough for me!
Stay away from the Ti retainers.
Many race engine builders use the stock aluminium ones.
People have reported that the Ti retainers oblong after awhile. That will cause you to drop a valve and destroy everything in sight!
I useTHEMOTORHEAD head bolts in my race motor.
Those things are HUGE!
Prolly slow me down with all the added weight.
Don't be scared of the stock headbolts with the good head gasket.
You'll be fine.
And like Boosta said, you can still remove the top end, if you have to, in the frame.
Daddy Fatsac
Registered
Alright thanks for the info. I will not be using the TI retainers that I was going to buy. Nor the APE cams. I'm going to stick to the tried and proven Yoshimura stage 1 cams! They are good for 10-15 hp alone. So I'm going to work with those and hope for the best.
Do you know anything else that isn't worth about a sh!t there? I planned on buy the valves, springs, oil gear, starter gear, tre, carrillos rods(I know those are good), cam tensioner, main bearing studs, wiseco pistons with Cosmetic HP gaskets, crank (too late for that...already getting done), and billet rotor cover. Got alot of other things that don't deal with the motor.
Like always I'm all ears. I love this site.
Do you know anything else that isn't worth about a sh!t there? I planned on buy the valves, springs, oil gear, starter gear, tre, carrillos rods(I know those are good), cam tensioner, main bearing studs, wiseco pistons with Cosmetic HP gaskets, crank (too late for that...already getting done), and billet rotor cover. Got alot of other things that don't deal with the motor.
Like always I'm all ears. I love this site.
SLEEPERBUSA
Registered
Ask about the valve springs. Their valve springs must be the same diameter as the stock ones or they won't fit your retainers. If they aren't, call Carpenter!
Use the stock cam chain tensioner.
The manual tensioner is ok, but VERY few people use them, there is more to that, but I just got off of my 5th, 16 hour work day and I'm not thinking straight enough to elaborate.
Yosh are very good cams, but only slightly larger than stock.
Check with Carpenter, or Vance & Hines about their .385 cams. Megacycle grinds the cams for them. GOOD STUFF!
NEED SLEEP, see ya soon.
Use the stock cam chain tensioner.
The manual tensioner is ok, but VERY few people use them, there is more to that, but I just got off of my 5th, 16 hour work day and I'm not thinking straight enough to elaborate.
Yosh are very good cams, but only slightly larger than stock.
Check with Carpenter, or Vance & Hines about their .385 cams. Megacycle grinds the cams for them. GOOD STUFF!
NEED SLEEP, see ya soon.
Daddy Fatsac
Registered
I was told by John at APE that I shouldn't go with any of the "large" and go with the .378/.330. Reason for this is I can't get any valve guide work done here in Japan (well...probably could...just don't know where to go). So one one the major things to worry about now is the stock guides. That is my major problem at the moment. I'll be going Yoshi with thier adjustable sprockets.
Today is my final day to make my last minute decisions before I need to turn in my parts list. I will look into the springs for the retainers now.
Get you some sleep bro! and elaborate on the tensioner when you wake up. Till then buds.
Today is my final day to make my last minute decisions before I need to turn in my parts list. I will look into the springs for the retainers now.
Get you some sleep bro! and elaborate on the tensioner when you wake up. Till then buds.
she's gonna fly Daddy Fat....U lucky bastid....
Daddy Fatsac
Registered
Holy SH!T!!! 244 hp!! 133 torque!! What do you do with your bike? Is it for drag or street? I can't wait till I get my bike back to the states for the 1397 pistons with porting.
Reason I can't do it is due to the fact that at carpenter's they can't run dynos on my bike to make sure they squeezed every once of performance from it. So I figured instead of getting the "big bore" and half ass ports...I'll wait till I can't get them done right the first time. But man that is awesome. That is something really to be proud of.
I got another question for you...how is it on gas?
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