One monkey off my back

[Tetge]

16/40 is 2.500 and 17/42 is 2.4705 so they are approximately the same except that 16/40 is just a pinch shorter geared than 17/42 (.9982). Since they are so close I would do 17/42 because it is much easier to change the rear sprocket, except that I hit the rev limiter in 3rd at LACR just before (60'?) the finish line of a good run with the 17/42 gears. And that is in bad DA. The problem is that the jump to 4th from third is a wide jump, so it does not pay to use 4th to pick up less than than 10 mph. So far I have gone the fastest using 3 gears.
For the moment I am attempting to ride the stock bike. Perhaps I will lower and strap it at some future point. But, I am still learning and I do ride the twisties quite a bit.
The 16/42 gears were too much for me since the front was coming up real easy, and, the bike actually feels better with the taller gears since I live in the wide open desert and speed limites are high and the roads long and straight and deserted.
BTW: Something happened today and all the brake fluid escaped from the clutch slave cylinder when I was putting the countershaft cover back on the bike. I must have bumped the piston and allowed it to twist in the cylinder since all the fluid ran out on my garage floor. I just about had a heart attack, but then, I pushed the piston back in and assembled everything and bled the clutch and all was good. I did not encounter this problem when I put the 16T countershaft on the bike, and I certainly did not squeeze the clutch lever, so it is strange, but, no harm done. Just another thing to be aware of.

 

[Brakelate]

12's are great bikes. My arch-rival, (I mean good friend) rides one too....

Perhaps we both got the fastest color for the 12 (?)    

Now I see why they call you "Mr" Brown....  serious hardware you two are packing.  Commands some respect!

 

[gnd111]

16/40 is 2.500 and 17/42 is 2.4705 so they are approximately the same except that 16/40 is just a pinch shorter geared than 17/42 (.9982).  Since they are so close I would do 17/42 because it is much easier to change the rear sprocket,   except that I hit the rev limiter in 3rd at LACR just before (60'?) the finish line of a good run with the 17/42 gears.  And that is in bad DA.  The problem is that the jump to 4th from third is a wide jump, so it does not pay to use 4th to pick up less than than 10 mph.  So far I have gone the fastest using 3 gears.
For the moment I am attempting to ride the stock bike.  Perhaps I will lower and strap it at some future point.  But, I am still learning and I do ride the twisties quite a bit.  
The 16/42 gears were too much for me since the front was coming up real easy, and, the bike actually feels better with the taller gears since I live in the wide open desert and speed limites are high and the roads long and straight and deserted.  
BTW:  Something happened today and all the brake fluid escaped from the clutch slave cylinder when I was putting the countershaft cover back on the bike.  I must have bumped the piston and allowed it to twist in the cylinder since all the fluid ran out on my garage floor.  I just about had a heart attack, but then, I pushed the piston back in and assembled everything and bled the clutch and all was good.  I did not encounter this problem when I put the 16T countershaft on the bike, and I certainly did not squeeze the clutch lever, so it is strange, but, no harm done.  Just another thing to be aware of.

16/40 gives you 1/2" more of wheelbase as well...

If you are running 10.80's and we are running 9.60's maybe you should listen to the advice given.

PS - 17/42 will shorten wheelbase by about 1/2" so you will be even shorter than stock. Between the 16/17 idea is 3/4 to 1" and YES that makes a difference...

 

[Tetge]

16/40 gives you 1/2" more of wheelbase as well...

If you are running 10.80's and we are running 9.60's maybe you should listen to the advice given.

PS - 17/42 will shorten wheelbase by about 1/2" so you will be even shorter than stock.  Between the 16/17 idea is 3/4 to 1" and YES that makes a difference...

Do not assume that I am not listening to the advice that people offer. I am not questioning the effect of various gears on the wheelbase.  The 17/42 combo was OK at the track for me, but it was too short geared to go through in 3rd.  The stock gears lack a little pull but last night under really bad conditions I consistently ran over 130 MPH with the stock gears.  These were the fastest trap speeds so far with the bike, which now has 850 careful break in miles on it.  And, I ran 10's too, although I did not equal my previous best run with the 17/42 gears.
I have been influenced by other posters on this very board that say that a 17T front sprocket is better for chain life than the 16T. That seems reasonable to me and I am more than a drag racer.  I agree that lowering and strapping the bike would really help.  But, right now I am running it with road racing suspension settings and street tire pressure to attempt to get a good handle on controlling the bike on the street.  What safer place than a drag strip to practice launches?  
Last night the clocks at LACR were barely working.  No 60' times on the tower side and no 1/8th trap speeds all night.  So, I do not know how well I launched, but, each time I went faster and launched harder and the front end was not coming up instantly. The DA was over 6000' when I started to run and at 5250' when I made my last run.  It is difficult to run super times in cars or with bikes when you are effectively one mile up in elevation.
I went through all this with my '03 Cobra so I know the drill, and, I envy those who run at tracks with better DA and better track prep.  But, the times should improve as I figure out how to launch the bike harder.
And, for those who might be interested, my little brother brought out his 1952 Velocette 350 MAC rigid to the track last night and went 21.25 @ 62 laid out on the tank. But, you might not want to ride a tight mountain road with him on the same bike. And, given a long enough straight it will go between 90-100 depending on conditions.



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[Tetge]

Another. tidy little bike it is.

 

[Tetge]

One more time

 

[Tetge]

One last time.
BTW: My brother has owned the '52 Velo since he was 16 and he has all the proper bits to put it back to completely restored. But he has riden it to Canada and Washington and all over the place and he uses it hard to scratch on the mountain roads around Ojai CA. It works a lot better than it looks.

 

[Tetge]

The Velo almost got me with a great light



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[Tetge]

I may as well show the Velo's best run too. His 60' times made me feel much better about mine

 

[Tetge]

Here is a composit time slip. Same track, different days, about the same lousy DA on both days, with the 2004 ZX-12R on the left and my 2005 Busa on the right. Almost the same 60' time and the Busa gets to the 330' mark first. Then the ZX-12R out motors the Busa. His total weight (on the LACR scale) is 760 pounds with rider and I am at 787 but, I have more cc's. I have to conclude that the ZX-12R has more wheel HP than the Busa.

 

[Brakelate]

If you are running 10.80's and we are running 9.60's maybe you should listen to the advice given.

Maybe you should try running somewhere other than at Sea Level.

All the local bikes here are running similar times due to the conditions we face.

How many miles has he put on the Velo? Also, what is in the metal can on the right rear of the bike? Is that his lunchbox?

 

[Matt Sterbator]

While density altitude will affect your 1/4 mile trap speed and ET by several 1/10ths and mph. It's not going to affect your 60' and it might affect your 330' by half a tenth or so, both of which are far more important than what happens on the back half of the track.

 

[gnd111]

If you are running 10.80's and we are running 9.60's maybe you should listen to the advice given.

Maybe you should try running somewhere other than at Sea Level.  

All the local bikes here are running similar times due to the conditions we face.  

How many miles has he put on the Velo?  Also, what is in the metal can on the right rear of the bike?  Is that his lunchbox?

The DA for Gville is often WAY above 1800'...  We do have something called humidity - which is something most northen areas have only heard of but never experienced...

PS a 1397 went 9.34 with a DA of 2400' a few weeks ago down here...

The point i was trying to make was that no matter what he calculates or says a 16/40 does make a big difference over 17/40...



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[Tetge]

If you are running 10.80's and we are running 9.60's maybe you should listen to the advice given.

Maybe you should try running somewhere other than at Sea Level.  

All the local bikes here are running similar times due to the conditions we face.  

How many miles has he put on the Velo?  Also, what is in the metal can on the right rear of the bike?  Is that his lunchbox?

The DA for Gville is often WAY above 1800'...  We do have something called humidity - which is something most northen areas have only heard of but never experienced...

PS a 1397 went 9.34 with a DA of 2400' a few weeks ago down here...

The point i was trying to make was that no matter what he calculates or says a 16/40 does make a big difference over 17/40...

I understood your point and I agree. However, 16/40 is still geared shorter than 17/42 and I hit the rev limiter before I can get through the traps with 17/42 gearing in 3rd so I would hit even sooner with 16/40 in third. And it is only another 50-60' to the finish line when the bike hits the limiter. I may be incorrect, but shifting to 4th for the final 100' or so of the 1/4 does not appear to be the correct strategy for me. Of course I have a stock shifter, have to launch with one foot up, and I am not a great shifter when I am attempting to be as tucked in as I can get. Maybe with an air shifter or in better DA, where I could trap in excess of the 130 MPH I can hit at LACR, I would be in 4th with 16/40 gears for enough time to make sense. That would be my guess anyway. I am only applying simple math to the data I collect but that has seemed to pay in the past. Gearing is not rocket science.
There will be plently of time to test all these things in the future.
BTW: We would kill for 1800' DA. If LACR ever got that low once even, it would be an amazing event. And, if you have ever been in the desert on a day when thunderstorms were forecast, like this past Friday, you would know that we can experience serious humidity too. The air smelled like rain and ozone and it was very nasty in leathers.

 

[Brakelate]

It's not going to affect your 60' and it might affect your 330' by half a tenth

Don't mean to sound pissy... but it seems like we are repeatedly defending our poor times and providing explanations, but to no avail. (in this thread and others). It's not (all) poor riding or a particular bike.  That is why we run all three bikes with all three different riders etc.

The weather conditons have been particularly nasty this month, with monsoon thunderstorms, high winds and high humidity adding to the already high heat.

In addition, our local track is very slow due not only to it's actual elevation, but it's condition as well.  Very little, if any, track prep, and head winds.  The track is located in the middle of a rock quarry and it blows all the silt and dust onto the track and makes it extremely slimy.  Feels like you are riding into a sand-storm at times.  Funnels of dust, sand and crap coming off the back of the bike as it goes through the traps. I'll try and post some pics of the environment if we go out this Wed nite.

I know it sounds like internet excuses, but its the facts.

Both Tetge and I dragrace our Mustang Cobras and have experienced the same results.  My car runs almost a full half-second quicker and about 4 mph faster at the other option; Famoso Raceway near Bakersfield, CA.  Though, it too is not ideal compared to some of the great tracks you guys seem to have out of state.

Believe me, we wish were in the 9's, but it's a fight to get what we can.

 

[Mr Brown]

There's no need to defend your times, anyone wo has negative things to say about them either hasn't ever tried drag racing themselves, or has forgotten what it's like starting out. It's easy to talk about what mistakes someone else is making, particularly from the sideline........
Just keep having fun.

 

[Brakelate]

Thanks. You are right. But it sucks when you are banging gears and fighting for a number, just to get bad times.

He holds the quickest et for the moment. But close racing with friendly folks is what it's all about!

 

[Mr Brown]

Thanks.  You are right.  But it sucks when you are banging gears and fighting for a number, just to get bad times.  

He holds the quickest et for the moment.  But close racing with friendly folks is what it's all about!

Don't race the clock, or the other bike. Just be as smooth and consistent as you can, every time. When you try harder, you'll go slower.........
BTW my buddy put a 2-9 stretch on his 12 last week. He ran a 6.47 launching like a puss. That bike is fast, he consistently rides around me. I'll try to get some pics soon.



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[Tetge]

Thanks.  You are right.  But it sucks when you are banging gears and fighting for a number, just to get bad times.  

He holds the quickest et for the moment.  But close racing with friendly folks is what it's all about!

Don't race the clock, or the other bike. Just be as smooth and consistent as you can, every time. When you try harder, you'll go slower.........
BTW my buddy put a 2-9 stretch on his 12 last week. He ran a 6.47 launching like a puss. That bike is fast, he consistently rides around me. I'll try to get some pics soon.

Don't be encouraging Brakelate. He is already a mad dog Kawasaki loving Busa bashing hound. I go to LACR almost every chance I get and I am always looking over my shoulder to make sure that no stinking silver POS ZX-12R is pulling by me on the top end. It ain't right.
My PCIIIusb is in the hands of UPS sent by JohnnyCheese right now, hoping to get maybe a tiny bit more top end pull from the Busa. Brakelate has no idea what I have in mind but he has to end up slower than me.
I have even considered optimizing my gearing to go through in 3rd at LACR by getting a 41T rear sprocket, but that would mean bugging the man to bring a radar gun out again to recalibrate the SpeedoHealer which is now perfect with the stock gears.
And, we are all very experienced drag racers. Been there and done that for many years. My latest race car, an '03 Mustang Cobra, has well over 500 runs on it in 2+ years at every track in So Cal, including Carlsbad which is now closed and Inyokern. Your advice about just running the track, not the other vehicle, is exactly what I tell people. But, we are going out for fun and bragging rights on the new bikes, so, it is really difficult to ignore the other guy, especially if he is riding a ZX-12R and he is laughing at you.

 

[frisbee]

you guys are having to much fun .