One monkey off my back
- Thread starter Tetge
- Start date
gnd111- How is the Jax crew doing? When you going to grace us soflo guys with your company?!
Good to see you're still running strong in the 1/4.... but I'm itching to see what sort of top end ya got.
Hopefully we can all get together and have a BBQ-9/10th's day down here. Would be a lot of fun to meet you, Matt, and the rest of the NoFlo guys.
Good to see you're still running strong in the 1/4.... but I'm itching to see what sort of top end ya got.
Hopefully we can all get together and have a BBQ-9/10th's day down here. Would be a lot of fun to meet you, Matt, and the rest of the NoFlo guys.
This is my first experience with really racing a bike at a 1/4 strip. I ran my Guzzi a couple of times, but it ran low 14's @ 94-96, so it was a piece of cake. About six weeks before I got the Busa I got an '05 Bandit 1200 which I traded in on the Busa. It went 11.69 at LACR @ 116+ but it was obviously not going to do 10's without a lot of mods. So, I traded it (ouch!) for the Busa.
So, bikes are a lot different. Just having to be suited up in leathers out in the direct sunlight makes it difficult. And, although cars can, and do, get out of shape, they are not as difficult to control as a bike. However, my Cobra goes 120 at a good track in the 11.5's so it has some pretty fierce acceleration for a cage. And, it takes a lot of experience to launch a powerful car successfully with IRS and 17" DR's and to row the gears efficiently. So, Brakelate, who also has a Mustang Cobra, and I are not newbies when it comes to racing. But, the Busa and the ZX-12R do require some adjustments since they both are capable of all kinds of mischief if things get out of hand on a launch.
I am enjoying the challenge and also taking my time since the track is not going anywhere and better DA will arrive later in the year.
Since I am addicted to drag racing, I just decided that racing a bike would be less costly than racing my daily driver.
Matt Sterbator
Registered
Brakelate, I was trying to find a way to say certain things without coming off like a jackass. Sometimes it's hard conveying emotion on the internet.
Anyway, I've seen alot of posts lately on all kinds of boards about altitude this, DA that. Almost as if some people really think it's the altitude making them run not so good. I've seen all kinds of crazy conversion factors (R6 running 11.9 @ 117mph at a few thousand feet somehow equals 10.50s)
I'm very familiar with density altitude and it's effect, especially on a naturally aspirated motor. I've also dealt with really bad track prep. DA, you deal with, sucks. Bad track prep can be dealt with by adjusting your riding. Not easy at this point in the game for you guys. Sometimes there's just no way around it.
My point is that 60' and 330' times are far more important to your ET than how hard it pulls at the top end of the track. You guys both know you can improve your 60 and 330 times, and that they aren't nearly as affected by DA like the back half is. You could come run here at sea level and still be in the 10.40s. Both your bikes easily have the capability to run 9s in the conditions you've been running, albeit not as easily as on a better track or conditions.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but 1.8 60' times and someone that's still worried about getting their left foot up in time, need to work on riding more than DA. If I can go 1.49 60's with 17/48 gearing, leaving with both feet on the ground, FOOT shifting... then you guys can too. Just take's a little practice. These bikes can get outta shape pretty fast if you're leaned over a tad when you launch.
Oh and Tetge, at stock wheelbase, you really should gear it to put you through the traps at the very top of 4th. It'll give you a much better drive through the gears.
I'm on my 3rd Mustang. I've had a Cobra and two 5.0 Fox bodies. Yes it's much different.
...and I'll be moving out west in the next year, so I'll get that shitty DA all the time too, lol.
Anyway, I've seen alot of posts lately on all kinds of boards about altitude this, DA that. Almost as if some people really think it's the altitude making them run not so good. I've seen all kinds of crazy conversion factors (R6 running 11.9 @ 117mph at a few thousand feet somehow equals 10.50s)
I'm very familiar with density altitude and it's effect, especially on a naturally aspirated motor. I've also dealt with really bad track prep. DA, you deal with, sucks. Bad track prep can be dealt with by adjusting your riding. Not easy at this point in the game for you guys. Sometimes there's just no way around it.
My point is that 60' and 330' times are far more important to your ET than how hard it pulls at the top end of the track. You guys both know you can improve your 60 and 330 times, and that they aren't nearly as affected by DA like the back half is. You could come run here at sea level and still be in the 10.40s. Both your bikes easily have the capability to run 9s in the conditions you've been running, albeit not as easily as on a better track or conditions.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but 1.8 60' times and someone that's still worried about getting their left foot up in time, need to work on riding more than DA. If I can go 1.49 60's with 17/48 gearing, leaving with both feet on the ground, FOOT shifting... then you guys can too. Just take's a little practice. These bikes can get outta shape pretty fast if you're leaned over a tad when you launch.
Oh and Tetge, at stock wheelbase, you really should gear it to put you through the traps at the very top of 4th. It'll give you a much better drive through the gears.
I'm on my 3rd Mustang. I've had a Cobra and two 5.0 Fox bodies. Yes it's much different.
...and I'll be moving out west in the next year, so I'll get that shitty DA all the time too, lol.
17/48 gears? I assume that you are using 5th gear through the traps. That's basically a 20% increase in RPM over stock. So, what would have been a 4000 RPM cruising speed on the freeway becomes 4800. And 5000 RPM becomes 6000. I am amazed that you can use the gear you are with a stock wheelbase and stock ride height such as I have. I am also very impressed that you foot shift. I can see why they lower the drag bike and put the pegs close to the ground. I have difficulty getting my feet back on the pegs and situated with the stock pegs, so I launch with my right foot down.
Although you can change the rear sprocket out pretty fast on a Busa, I would think that the time it took to take the extra length of chain out of your bike and replace the rear sprocket so that you could tour on it, and then time spent replacing it when you went to the strip would start to be irritating. As an old drag racer, I totally agree that the 60' time and first 330' for most street driven machines is critical to great times. But, I confess that I have never owned any street bike like the Busa and it has been many years since I rode the desert and dealt with wheelies, so I am still coming to grips with the balance between a hard launch and controlling the front wheel. It was so long ago that my last desert sled was a 360 Bultaco El Bandito motorcrosser with a skid plate. It flat tracked and pulled the wheel very easily, but that was then, and I am not a young person at all. Since 1987 I have been riding my MotoGuzzi Lemans, which handles pretty well, but which never gets close to lofting the front wheel.
Last night I tried a 41T rear sprocket (17/41) and it did not help. It went faster with stock gearing. But, who knows what the DA was last night?
As for DA, it really does make a big difference in trap speeds and performance. Since you have to moderate the power when launching to some degree on a stocker, I agree, it is not critical for the 60'. In fact, I would be having a harder time launching and handling the bike at sea level. But, it is a learning process and hopefully with seat time I will improve. There is a group in Los Angeles called After Hours Racing and they came to LACR recently with lots of Busa's and other fast bike. Some went in the 8's and one Busa was doing 156 at LACR. They were launching off the rev limiter it seemed and hauling butt. I doubt if I could handle one of those rides since they appeared to be violent. But, I sure got a sample of some quick Busa's that night.
Although you can change the rear sprocket out pretty fast on a Busa, I would think that the time it took to take the extra length of chain out of your bike and replace the rear sprocket so that you could tour on it, and then time spent replacing it when you went to the strip would start to be irritating. As an old drag racer, I totally agree that the 60' time and first 330' for most street driven machines is critical to great times. But, I confess that I have never owned any street bike like the Busa and it has been many years since I rode the desert and dealt with wheelies, so I am still coming to grips with the balance between a hard launch and controlling the front wheel. It was so long ago that my last desert sled was a 360 Bultaco El Bandito motorcrosser with a skid plate. It flat tracked and pulled the wheel very easily, but that was then, and I am not a young person at all. Since 1987 I have been riding my MotoGuzzi Lemans, which handles pretty well, but which never gets close to lofting the front wheel.
Last night I tried a 41T rear sprocket (17/41) and it did not help. It went faster with stock gearing. But, who knows what the DA was last night?
As for DA, it really does make a big difference in trap speeds and performance. Since you have to moderate the power when launching to some degree on a stocker, I agree, it is not critical for the 60'. In fact, I would be having a harder time launching and handling the bike at sea level. But, it is a learning process and hopefully with seat time I will improve. There is a group in Los Angeles called After Hours Racing and they came to LACR recently with lots of Busa's and other fast bike. Some went in the 8's and one Busa was doing 156 at LACR. They were launching off the rev limiter it seemed and hauling butt. I doubt if I could handle one of those rides since they appeared to be violent. But, I sure got a sample of some quick Busa's that night.
Matt Sterbator
Registered
17/48 is -1/+2 on my bike. Actually put me on the limiter on at the first cone in the traps, in 4th.
It's a 12R, not stock wheelbase (anymore). Stock wheelbase I ran 17/46.
Lowering the bike isn't to get the pegs closer to the ground, it's to get the center of gravity lower. The lower the bike the less it wants to wheelie. You really want to have both feet on the ground when you launch. It provides much more stability, lets you use more of the contact patch of the tire, and lets you concentrate just a little more on launching it than making sure you're leaning enough to the right so ya don't fall over. It just takes practice and getting used to drag racing a bike. It's a growing pain I think everyone goes through at first. My girlfriend went through the same thing last year when she started drag racing bikes ('00 ZX12R, stock motor, stock wheelbase). She was so worried about the burnout and getting that foot up to shift. Now she's running 9.70s, a tenth and a half better than I ever got on that bike when I had it, lol.
On the 60' and 330' times. IMO, while important, the 60' isn't AS important as the 330' time with motorcycles. That basically tells you how fast you got the full throttle, and since with bikes you're fighting that big wheelie in 1st gear. Therein lies the trick, getting the full throttle quickly, and fighting the wheelie with the clutch, not the throttle. Easier said than done... but this is where guys like Gadson and Schnitz earn their money.
The deeper gearing will help you alot, especially since you're dealing with such a drastic altitude. Any change will take some adjusting to get used to.
FWIW, back when I was making license passes, on the half track runs, I'd run 6.50s and pull the clutch in right past the 1/8th mark... and it'd go 10.50s coasting through the 1/4. A full pass at 6.50 got me low 9.90s. Looking back at my old slips, and comparing one of yours you posted:
Me - You
60' - 1.91 --------------- 1.86
330' - 4.75 ------------- 4.75
1/8th - 7.01 @ 109mph - 7.08 @ 105mph
1/4 - 10.59 @ 136mph - - 10.80 @ 130mph
You can see that my slip isn't much different than yours as far as short times go, about the same 1/8th, and 2-3/10ths difference out the back door. That was at 167' elevation, in Florida, in October. Lowered, geared '00 ZX-12R with a stock pipe. Obviously the trap speed is different, but the ET didn't change as much as the so called DA correction factor would have you believe.
With the DA thing, I've just seen too many people lately blaming their not so stellar times on density altitude, then come up with the "corrected" thing. When the real problem is their short times. Kind of annoying after so many people talking about this lately. So I apologize if I came off like a jackass, it wasn't my intent.
It's a 12R, not stock wheelbase (anymore). Stock wheelbase I ran 17/46.
Lowering the bike isn't to get the pegs closer to the ground, it's to get the center of gravity lower. The lower the bike the less it wants to wheelie. You really want to have both feet on the ground when you launch. It provides much more stability, lets you use more of the contact patch of the tire, and lets you concentrate just a little more on launching it than making sure you're leaning enough to the right so ya don't fall over. It just takes practice and getting used to drag racing a bike. It's a growing pain I think everyone goes through at first. My girlfriend went through the same thing last year when she started drag racing bikes ('00 ZX12R, stock motor, stock wheelbase). She was so worried about the burnout and getting that foot up to shift. Now she's running 9.70s, a tenth and a half better than I ever got on that bike when I had it, lol.
On the 60' and 330' times. IMO, while important, the 60' isn't AS important as the 330' time with motorcycles. That basically tells you how fast you got the full throttle, and since with bikes you're fighting that big wheelie in 1st gear. Therein lies the trick, getting the full throttle quickly, and fighting the wheelie with the clutch, not the throttle. Easier said than done... but this is where guys like Gadson and Schnitz earn their money.
The deeper gearing will help you alot, especially since you're dealing with such a drastic altitude. Any change will take some adjusting to get used to.
FWIW, back when I was making license passes, on the half track runs, I'd run 6.50s and pull the clutch in right past the 1/8th mark... and it'd go 10.50s coasting through the 1/4. A full pass at 6.50 got me low 9.90s. Looking back at my old slips, and comparing one of yours you posted:
Me - You
60' - 1.91 --------------- 1.86
330' - 4.75 ------------- 4.75
1/8th - 7.01 @ 109mph - 7.08 @ 105mph
1/4 - 10.59 @ 136mph - - 10.80 @ 130mph
You can see that my slip isn't much different than yours as far as short times go, about the same 1/8th, and 2-3/10ths difference out the back door. That was at 167' elevation, in Florida, in October. Lowered, geared '00 ZX-12R with a stock pipe. Obviously the trap speed is different, but the ET didn't change as much as the so called DA correction factor would have you believe.
With the DA thing, I've just seen too many people lately blaming their not so stellar times on density altitude, then come up with the "corrected" thing. When the real problem is their short times. Kind of annoying after so many people talking about this lately. So I apologize if I came off like a jackass, it wasn't my intent.
I can understand your guys pain. I use to and still do on occasion race my camaro, but mostly the bike now for same reasons. I moved to the Portland area from high altitude desert. Our physical elevation was 4500 ft with a DA consistantly around 8k, now physical is around 300 ft with an average DA around 1500 ft. But for comparisons I have an 04 Bandit that I raced last year in Boise (2700 ft with a DA 3500 ft) and it ran 11.9x and here it runs 11.3x. Just for informational purposes.
I have to admit that being comfortable with your machine and knowing the track also make a big difference. Although LACR is at 2710' altitude, my Cobra has gone to about .2 sec as fast at LACR (11.786) as it went at California Dragway (Fontana, 1100' 11.582) or Famoso (Bakersfield 625' 11.587). But trap speeds are way down at LACR reflecting the decrease HP even with a supercharged engine. Mostly people go about .5 sec faster at the tracks at lower altitudes that are not located in the Mojave Desert but since I am a local racer at LACR, I narrowed that gap because I hit the track so often I am bound to get a good run on ocassion.
I am not attempting to make excuses since I never use corrected times. And, I have a lot of learning to do about the Busa.
On the other hand, LACR is about five miles from my house. This week I already raced Wednesday; I will race tonight and tomorrow night. I started racing the bike July 8th shortly after I got it and I have been to the track 9 times since then and made 65 pulls on the bike (I enter everything into an Excel file).
I am not addicted to drag racing and I could stop anytime I wanted to. I just don't feel like stopping right now. Really. I could stop. Honest.
I am not attempting to make excuses since I never use corrected times. And, I have a lot of learning to do about the Busa.
On the other hand, LACR is about five miles from my house. This week I already raced Wednesday; I will race tonight and tomorrow night. I started racing the bike July 8th shortly after I got it and I have been to the track 9 times since then and made 65 pulls on the bike (I enter everything into an Excel file).
I am not addicted to drag racing and I could stop anytime I wanted to. I just don't feel like stopping right now. Really. I could stop. Honest.
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