Over re-acted a little?....

dadofthree said:
Handcuffing a dead offender is protocol. We're not medical doctors but cops. Now really you been looking for this guy all shift , told repeatedly how dangerous he is and he fails to comply with lawful commands, exits the vehicle with a throwing knife less than ten feet from you, Really :laugh: Adrenaline is a factor as well. He just wanted to go home at the end of the day.
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Exellent points Dad. This particular cop just seems a bit of a Nervous Nellie. Its easy for everyone to play Monday Morning Quarterback...Walk a Mile in My Shoes,etc. I just have the personal feeling that if given an' order (the cop) like "Don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes" he would have pee'd his pants and fired his musket before the command was even finished.

Like you said thou,it was 6:42 AM,likey the end of shift,cop was probably wired on 17 cups of Starbucks etc.

I would have done exactly what this cop did....I just would have looked way cooler doing it. :whistle:

Calling for the trauma bag showed some compassion thou. Althou I'm not sure grabbing the forcepts and pulling out the 8 or 9 Glock rounds would have done much good.:laugh:

A weapon is a weapon I suppose...but the chances of making a throwing knife stick in a moving target wearing a kevlar vest are slim to none. I am very handy with throwing knives and axes and can call you the likelihood that the cop would have been injured are slim to none. I can stick a throwing knife deep into a non-moving stump at a precise distance, time and time again. Can I do it all tangled up in a seatbelt twisted the wrong way with a gun in my face all jacked up on emotion....

Not a chance.

But again...Monday Morning Quarterback krap. I'm just glad you come home every night Dad. :thumbsup:

RSD.
 
I have to side with police here. I tell my people all the time when a cop walks up to your window you have your hands where they can see them. You do whatever they say. You say yes sir and no sir. This guy knew the drill. He was violating parole so he has been in and out of the clink.

I have several relatives that are police offices. One is on a gang task force and sees some pretty heavy action. These guys attitudes are not to go out and shoot somebody. That is the last thing they want to do. If nothing else they know in this day and age with all the friggin lawyers we have running around they know when they fire that gun they may end their career. At the end of the day if they feel their life is in danger they will fire. The decision has to be made so fast they have to make a decision and run with it.

It is hard to watch a guy get shot down like that but that is the risk this dude took when he broke the law and had a weapon. If I was the cop I would have done the same thing.
 
one dead "Armed and Dangerous" felon in the neighborhood. Good or bad? You decide!
 
I fine with the cop taking the guy out. He was a known armed and dangerous felon. Cop is gonna be in extra hyper defensive mode when he gets there. While I agree we could probably find some error in his actions, he is walking into an unknown dangerous situation, and the perp certainly acted erratically. The cop will catch some heat over emptying his clip in him. Maybe get popped for that. Attorneys are gonna spin it in whatever way the money flows out. But we have one less scumbag and one alive cop in the end. Sounds like a good outcome to me.

Contrary to this story. Right next to me in Fla. we have this. Unarmed Florida man shot by police 'firing squad' -- Society's Child -- Sott.net

No doubt about it, we have a lot of twitchy cops out there.
 
I don't blame the cop for defending himself against a someone who he thinks may kill him, I guess the cop was told he was armed and dangerous and the dude didn't comply with orders to stop and get on the ground. But I do blame him for unloading 13 rounds (full mag?) into a guy even after he fell to the ground, and in the back. If my GF was 5 seconds from bleeding to death on the ground I'd tell the cops to **** off too. How would you like to get up everyday for a week and look at the blood of someone you love on your lawn? Sure you can go out and hit it with the hose, but that's just as traumatic to me. I think both the perp and the cop are at fault, but one person paid with their life.
 
Fuel and Beer said:
LOL, i hear ya....The cop did not even give the guy a chance to comply... it was just bang, bang, bang.....I am not a cop but if i was and a guy was waving around a knife, i wouldn't shoot him unless he was right up on me....What that officer did was very un called for....I think when that officer woke up, he said to himself, i am going to kill some body today cuz i got a gun, i got a badge and i am a cop so i can do soo...I am glad the police got sued... No matter what the guy that got shot background was, there was no need to shoot him like that coward officer did.
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I haven't watched the video yet but want to comment on your statement. I was a firearms instructor for 8yrs.
I showed many many many times that from a distance of less than 21 feet I can as well as most cross that space before you could draw and fire a weapon accurately. From a low ready the distance is down to about ten to twelve feet. That's two or more big steps and they are right on you. I don't know what distance you feel is safe but saying unless he was right on me shows me you have had little H2H experience or training.

I'll watch video and comment on cop in a bit but just wanted to keep things in perspective.
A person armed with a knife could cross 15ft or so and slice open most before they even knew what happened.
 
Ludicrous Speed said:
IDK, if a cop has a gun on you and tells you to put your hands up, don't jump around and reach behind the seat.
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I have to agree. I don't believe in violence or abuse or power or that cops are always right or anything like that, but the appropriate response to put your hands up is just that. In addition, we really don't have much context for what led to this incident. Seems they cops had it staked out. For all we know, the guy was a known murderer/cop killer. It's not likely they had a habitual jay walker staked out like that.

Regardless, if you don't want to be shot by the police, comply with any and all reasonable requests, such as "Put your hands up!" or "Drop the knife!" or the old cliche "Freeze!".
 
Boosa Barry said:
Very true, you know that, I know that and hopefully most normal people would know that, but some people tend to flip out in a heated situation like this and their senses are skewed, such as listening and concentration. Now I'm not saying that the dead guy conducted himeself properly before he was shot, quite the opposite but the cop that shot over 10 rounds in him is a cold blooded killer! Talk about wanting to shoot somebody. It's like the cop was trying to control him from moving and the more he shot him that was supposed to make him instantly freeze. I think once you have hot lead passing through you it would be pretty hard to be perfectly still, (that is if you're able to move of course).

If you have a license to kill then you should also have a responsibilitly on how you go about using it. You should have better constraint and judgement. I don't think the cop ever saw a weapon even if the guy could've been looking for one. It was obvious to me that he was just startled and confused and caught off gaurd. This cop didn't have to empty his gun what a stupid trigger happy $#%#$%$ Hey cop :moon:
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I can absolutely agree that the cop had no need to fire more than a few rounds but bear in mind that just as was the suspect, so was the cop in a heated situation and cops are not immune to "flipping out" or having "skewed senses", precisely why it's so important for us "normal" people to follow the commands of police to the letter. To do otherwise is like sudden movement in front of a wild animal. They may be cops, but they're also human and, I'm betting, they get almost as scared as the suspects in these situations. Remember, they wanna make it home every night just like we do, but if make a mistake at work, getting home just might not happen.

Both cop and suspect acted leff than perfectly, but the suspect was a mess in terms of initial behavior and we don't know anything about the character, personality or history of either one of them. All things being equal, the suspect blew it by disobeying, moving quick and erratically and THEN the cop fired excessively (though I can't fault the cop for firing a few rounds).
 
forensic review...video review...cop testimony...even before i read the forensic review and testimony...i felt shooting was justified as 1. commands were not followed. 2. movement was not controlled or calm. 3 reaching in. 4. prior knowledge of weapon in hand.(sets to potential situation) ... justified.
 
Fuel and Beer said:
LOL, i hear ya....The cop did not even give the guy a chance to comply... it was just bang, bang, bang.....I am not a cop but if i was and a guy was waving around a knife, i wouldn't shoot him unless he was right up on me....What that officer did was very un called for....I think when that officer woke up, he said to himself, i am going to kill some body today cuz i got a gun, i got a badge and i am a cop so i can do soo...I am glad the police got sued... No matter what the guy that got shot background was, there was no need to shoot him like that coward officer did.
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Don't ever become a cop dude. Of course I tell that to everyone, anyways; you would have been killed that day. His chance to comply was to stay in the vehicle as repeatedly commanded by the officer. The driver of the truck was telling him to put his hands up and stay in the truck, the front passenger ( the drivers wife ) was telling him to put his hands up and stay in the truck.

I haven't had the training in a few years, but when I started 21' was the distance someone with a bladed weapon could kill you before you could draw your weapon. The last time I had the training it had been bumped to 30'. Originally we had snap holsters, now-a-days we have double,triple, and quad retention holsters. Very hard to draw. As I watched this vid I could see that the officer lost a second or two trying to draw. He struggled. Adrenaline really screws with the body. Motor Skills SHOT, Tunnel vision CHECK, hearing impaired CHECK.

Why don't you change that to the criminal didn't even give himself a chance :poke:
 
rubbersidedown said:
Exellent points Dad. This particular cop just seems a bit of a Nervous Nellie. Its easy for everyone to play Monday Morning Quarterback...Walk a Mile in My Shoes,etc. I just have the personal feeling that if given an' order (the cop) like "Don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes" he would have pee'd his pants and fired his musket before the command was even finished.

Like you said thou,it was 6:42 AM,likey the end of shift,cop was probably wired on 17 cups of Starbucks etc.

I would have done exactly what this cop did....I just would have looked way cooler doing it. :whistle:

Calling for the trauma bag showed some compassion thou. Althou I'm not sure grabbing the forcepts and pulling out the 8 or 9 Glock rounds would have done much good.:laugh:

A weapon is a weapon I suppose...but the chances of making a throwing knife stick in a moving target wearing a kevlar vest are slim to none. I am very handy with throwing knives and axes and can call you the likelihood that the cop would have been injured are slim to none. I can stick a throwing knife deep into a non-moving stump at a precise distance, time and time again. Can I do it all tangled up in a seatbelt twisted the wrong way with a gun in my face all jacked up on emotion....

Not a chance.

But again...Monday Morning Quarterback krap. I'm just glad you come home every night Dad. :thumbsup:

RSD.
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Unlike you brother , this guy was known for being handy with knives. Cops have the worst luck brother. It would have entered dudes neck and nicked an artery. The reason cops have gone to the weaver stance is because so many were killed by taking a .22 in the armpit with body armor in the bladed stance they use to teach.
 
dadofthree said:
Well he's ahead of the game with that car tire :rofl:
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Had a good time this morning,but he rode his Gen II street bike instead of the camo one pictured:laugh:(that one's a fully built 1507 with a flat slick,he only weighs about 165 suited and pretty sure it runs consistent 8.15's-8.20's).
 
I have two problems with this. First the cop runs up to a vehicle where a known armed and dangerous person is located. The second is that he shoots at least 13 times. at least twice while he is on the ground and once in the back on the ground. I have no problem with an officer protecting themself but at what point do you say enough is enough? That was absolutely excessive and everyone in here that has chimed indefending the cop knows it was as well. And BTW, I've watched this video several times and I yet to see a knife or anything els in his hands which is why they couldnt find one. The perp looked like he was trying to run and got tangled up. So i say the shooting was bordeline justified but excessive.
 
Ok I watched it.
That was tough.

Thoughts...

The bad guy seemed to be stuck in seat belt trying to get away. He was moving way too fast to be complying. Knife or not officer kept telling him by his first name 'Ernie Ernie Don't do it, stop!!'
He didn't and paid for it with his life. My bet is he had gotten away before. They were obv waiting for him because as soon as pickup rounded the corner he was on him. I believe cop made the 'mistake' of not taking up a protective stance from behind his door whilst issuing orders and the way he came running around door in front of his car makes me feel he was gonna make sure the guy didn't get away. Just my read on it.
Difficult to watch the relatives come round to see that. And surprised none of them came out shooting in his defense.
 
Lycan6 said:
I have two problems with this. First the cop runs up to a vehicle where a known armed and dangerous person is located. The second is that he shoots at least 13 times. at least twice while he is on the ground and once in the back on the ground. I have no problem with an officer protecting themself but at what point do you say enough is enough? That was absolutely excessive and everyone in here that has chimed indefending the cop knows it was as well. And BTW, I've watched this video several times and I yet to see a knife or anything els in his hands which is why they couldnt find one. The perp looked like he was trying to run and got tangled up. So i say the shooting was bordeline justified but excessive.
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I didn't see any knife either and I agree its a bit strange he ran up to the guy.
But to address the extra shots in the back, the guy was still moving and therefore from their training still a threat. At the point where he got shot in the back he was rolling around. Not many but enough have jumped up after being shot and become once again a threat. Also if he hasn't got caught up he could have come out full bore and charged the approaching officer. So sadly I still see it as BG bringing all of it on himself.
Lastly cops don't count rounds fired. You have to be very experienced in real world combat type situations to be able to count how many rounds you've fired. Most duty cops will fire until mag is empty or BG ain't moving anymore. This time it was both. Almost toward end of video you can hear the cop say 'I think my mag is empty?' meaning he had no idea how many rounds he fired. Just pure instant adrenalin.
 
The only knife is the knife he got from someone to "cut his shirt off" he then places the knife in the back of the truck, later a different officer comes and gets the knife out of the bed of the truck. Crooked. I swear someone asks about the knife and he replies it in "------ 's" car

At 5:58 he ask for a knife
At 7:12 still has the borrowed knife
At 7:45 places knife on side of truck
Shortly after an officer puts on rubber gloves and retrieves the knife. I never saw a second knife
 
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