Pope is against condoms to fight aids.

[thrasherfox]

First off, Christianity did not come from Catholicism. it is something different.

Those difference are best left to discuss another time and day.

Rev asked me to take a look at this thread, here is the deal people. everyone one of you.. everyone of us (me included) need to look at what we are saying and realize at some point we have really said all we can say.

Over and over on this board I have seen where people just have to be right and they will beat the horse until it is not only dead but there is nothing left, and they will continue to beat it. and yes I can be accused of doing the same thing.


Just everyone remember, when it comes to politics and religion, in the end there is really nothing anyone can say that will change another persons mind. you will usually just end up in an endless battle until feelings are permanently hurt and relationships are scarred.

so at some point, just let it go. don’t push things to the point where you are offending someone. and when it comes to any religion, you can quickly get to that point without realizing it.

And non believers can be just as easily offended and people who do believe in God need to be just as sensitive and probably more sensitive to ensuring we do not offend people who do not believe in God.

Believe in God or don’t, were are all still living here, working here and dying here together. So we are all IN this together one way or another. So just respect each other and each others beliefs. Whatever they may be.


So keep the thread respectful. That is all I ask

 

[dadofthree]

I've always wondered?...........Catholic girls get pregnant because the Pope says no condoms/birth control then keep the babies because the Pope says no abortion. Why do they take that advice but disregard what he says about abstinence?

Could have something to do with human nature, or peer pressure, or

 

[dadofthree]

Alright, not to argue, but I'm confused again, and as earlier stated it's easy to do. The Catholic Church sees itself as starting around the death of Christ. I believe and remember I'm not Catholic; St. Peter was the first Pope. That would be Peter the foundation of Christ Church, the disciple of Christ.

I thought Catholics were Christians. The protestant churches came from the Catholic Church starting with Martin Luther. The Lutheran Church.

 

[thrasherfox]

Alright, not to argue, but I'm confused again, and as earlier stated it's easy to do. The Catholic Church sees itself as starting around the death of Christ. I believe and remember I'm not Catholic; St. Peter was the first Pope. That would be Peter the foundation of Christ Church, the disciple of Christ.

I thought Catholics were Christians. The protestant churches came from the Catholic Church starting with Martin Luther. The Lutheran Church.

In the most simpelist terms.


Christians do not believe what Catholics beleieve but a lot of Catholics believe what Christians believe.

Some Catholic priests are more Christian than they are Catholic. why they stay Catholic I dont really understand.

If you want to know more send me a PM, the rest will probably just offend someone.

 

[theemrrdkill]

good points .... Thrash. ....btw .. good to see yah.

 

[theemrrdkill]

hmm ... lost a thread.. anyways good points Ron.. good to see your still at it.

 

[chevellesteve]

well this post probably wont earn me any friends. i had a uncle that died from aids he also spread it to his partner and the partner to other people . who sees a problem with this??? i know i sure do . in my military experience i learned a few things about serving the greater good and the cost of life involved in that. my feelings are that they should separate the diseased from the herd and let them live separately for the rest of their natural lives. look at this from a farmers view point if you have 1000 cows and 10 get sick with mad cow you dont leave them with the herd do you? you remove them and deal with the problem

 

[Projekt]

They do it because abstinence goes against human nature. You can't stop people from the biological drive of sex but you can make them ignorant about prophylactics. Besides if he started allowing condoms that would mean that less catholics are born which would lead to less revenue.. In effect condoms are bad for business.

I've always wondered?...........Catholic girls get pregnant because the Pope says no condoms/birth control then keep the babies because the Pope says no abortion. Why do they take that advice but disregard what he says about abstinence?

 

[Projekt]

The Catholic Church is a product of the Roman Emperor Constantine. In 324 A.D. it became the official state religion of the empire in an effort to unify the disparate cultures in all its territories for the purpose of taxation. The Roman Empire became the Holy Roman Empire and became the Roman Catholic Church. Rome never died, it just evolved into an empire governed through churches by men and women who find it easy to be asexual or tend to suppress their homosexuality albeit unsuccessfully. Thus for them it is simple to make a rule barring normal folks from sex until marriage even though humans become sexually mature at puberty.

Alright, not to argue, but I'm confused again, and as earlier stated it's easy to do. The Catholic Church sees itself as starting around the death of Christ. I believe and remember I'm not Catholic; St. Peter was the first Pope. That would be Peter the foundation of Christ Church, the disciple of Christ.

I thought Catholics were Christians. The protestant churches came from the Catholic Church starting with Martin Luther. The Lutheran Church.

 

[F=MA]

Thrasherfox I appreciate and agree with your call to keep the thread respectful.

Again, it is easy to pass judgement and create moral ideals when one is fortunate enough to not have to worry about where the next meal is, when the next rain might come, or when the neighboring village might decide to attack you for whatever modest resources you've managed to scrape together.

That is my problem with an edict of this nature. The figurehead of this particular organized religion has never walked a step, yet alone a mile, in these fellow members of humanity's shoes.

Through no action of their own, millions of people in Africa have been born into abject poverty, in areas with extremely limited resources, and little or no knowledge, ability, or education to provide a path out of that existence.

For those who have had the good fortune to have been born in a relatively wealthy, educated, technologically advanced, and reasonably civilized society to actively seek to reduce the availability of tools that can provide benefit to those less fortunate on a claim of moral authority...well I guess it just strikes me as ludicrous.

Regardless of religious belief, or lack therof, logic and reason has to prevail when one steps out of their cushy, "luck of the draw" existence, steps beyond emotionally charged, black and white, right and wrong, our way or eternal damnation filter through which most religious leaders admonish their followers to view the world.

Anything less is a disservice to humanity, and many of the core teachings of a large percentage of the world's religions.

"Let them suffer the consequences of not obeying the Commandments we follow. It is their fault for not following the rules set forth."

That just seems absurd to me, given the circumstances.

 

[gabusa]

+1

 

[afterhours]

first off..in a civilized society, grown adults should be able to have a discussion...even if they have different view on a subject....

to address some things.

christians beleive in the "christ", the son of god. there are many christian churches...the catholic church, is one of them....a very large and very rich church that beleives in some very specific ideals.

the discussion of the Catholic church is not really about god, it is about the politics and actions of the church.

i was baptized catholic, went to a catholic school and my views are based on what i saw from the inside.

god did not decide to hide nazi's it was the pope.
god did not decideto hide pedophile priests...it was the pope.
god did not decide that the use of condoms to protect against AIDS, was wrong....this is an interpretation of the pope.

my anger is not pointed at god, or any one beliefs....it is squarely aimed at the man/men that are making the policy decisions for the catholic church.

 

[mike1180]

first off..in a civilized society, grown adults should be able to have a discussion...even if they have different view on a subject....

to address some things.

christians beleive in the "christ", the son of god. there are many christian churches...the catholic church, is one of them....a very large and very rich church that beleives in some very specific ideals.

the discussion of the Catholic church is not really about god, it is about the politics and actions of the church.

i was baptized catholic, went to a catholic school and my views are based on what i saw from the inside.

god did not decide to hide nazi's it was the pope.
god did not decideto hide pedophile priests...it was the pope.
god did not decide that the use of condoms to protect against AIDS, was wrong....this is an interpretation of the pope.

my anger is not pointed at god, or any one beliefs....it is squarely aimed at the man/men that are making the policy decisions for the catholic church.

You're point seems to have one reoccurring theme "the POPE"

And I agree with all your points, and want to add, the Pope has a few "good men" beside and around him to help him in his administration.

This is not about religion, or the church, it is about the same type of guys running that entity, as seem to run everything else.

 

[Spectre]

I thought Catholics were Christians. The protestant churches came from the Catholic Church starting with Martin Luther. The Lutheran Church.

There are a lot of doctrine issues that separate the Catholics from the Protestants and the multitude of offshoots they begot. It's a pretty interesting study actually.

They do it because abstinence goes against human nature. You can't stop people from the biological drive of sex but you can make them ignorant about prophylactics.

From my understanding it has more to do with the family unit and the sanctity thereof. Most devout Catholics I've met are against any birth control since it interferes with (the chance of) life bringing.

As far as the "human nature" argument goes, most of us quell our desires each day. We don't snatch some pinhead out of their vehicle when they cut us off on the highway. We don't take something from someone because we want it. So how is this much different?

Using condoms to fight HIV seems to go against several Catholic church beliefs such as birth control, premarital sex, and maybe even adultery since I can't imagine a anyone needing a condom with their wife/husband.

 

[afterhours]

There are a lot of doctrine issues that separate the Catholics from the Protestants and the multitude of offshoots they begot. It's a pretty interesting study actually.



From my understanding it has more to do with the family unit and the sanctity thereof. Most devout Catholics I've met are against any birth control since it interferes with (the chance of) life bringing.

As far as the "human nature" argument goes, most of us quell our desires each day. We don't snatch some pinhead out of their vehicle when they cut us off on the highway. We don't take something from someone because we want it. So how is this much different?

Using condoms to fight HIV seems to go against several Catholic church beliefs such as birth control, premarital sex, and maybe even adultery since I can't imagine a anyone needing a condom with their wife/husband.

there would not be a problem if the stance was solid. the problem arises when the church allows some behavior, yet condemms other behaviors....

when the church conspires to protect those that have sinned, by having sodomy, premarital sex and homosexual sex, because they are priests..yet condems those that are at risk of a deadly disease for using condems condoms seems a bit hypocritical.....

the pope is supposed to be inspired by god, does that mean that god supports the sexual abuse of young boys?

why is the old testament used only when it serves the churches purpose...?

 

[dadofthree]

The Catholic Church is a product of the Roman Emperor Constantine. In 324 A.D. it became the official state religion of the empire in an effort to unify the disparate cultures in all its territories for the purpose of taxation. The Roman Empire became the Holy Roman Empire and became the Roman Catholic Church. Rome never died, it just evolved into an empire governed through churches by men and women who find it easy to be asexual or tend to suppress their homosexuality albeit unsuccessfully. Thus for them it is simple to make a rule barring normal folks from sex until marriage even though humans become sexually mature at puberty.

If it's all nature and the way it is suppose to be; why wasn't this an issue 50 years ago. Yes , unwed women became pregnant 50 years ago, but you have to admit things were much different.

I guess if it were my nature to kill, it would be alright for me to randomly take lives as I wished, or maybe if it were in my nature to have sexual relations with people without their consent that would be alright as well.

I guess I'm calling bullshid on the whatever feels good to me crap that we find ourselves in today. But hey it's just the internet

 

[dadofthree]

There are a lot of doctrine issues that separate the Catholics from the Protestants and the multitude of offshoots they begot. It's a pretty interesting study actually.

Yes, but it is my belief that Catholics are Christians. Every protestant denomination will have differences from another. I guess one of the biggies is the King James version of the Holy Bible.

I grew up in a religion that didn't trash talk other christian religions and when a member was coming of age was challenged to look deeply at other religions. I have been to services in a large variety of churches during my life. I was married to a Roman Catholic for 25 years and attended services / mass a number of times each year.

 

[dadofthree]

there would not be a problem if the stance was solid. the problem arises when the church allows some behavior, yet condemms other behaviors....

when the church conspires to protect those that have sinned, by having sodomy, premarital sex and homosexual sex, because they are priests..yet condems those that are at risk of a deadly disease for using condems condoms seems a bit hypocritical.....

the pope is supposed to be inspired by god, does that mean that god supports the sexual abuse of young boys?

why is the old testament used only when it serves the churches purpose...?

No one could ever argue that the Catholic Church screwed the pooch on the Priest on Alter Boys issue. Hopefully after nearly destroying the church through lawsuits the Church has learned from it's mistakes. I'm sure Catholic Priest weren't the only ones to have issues at the alter. They just made the media spotlight.

 

[dadofthree]

The Catholic Church is a product of the Roman Emperor Constantine. In 324 A.D. it became the official state religion of the empire in an effort to unify the disparate cultures in all its territories for the purpose of taxation. The Roman Empire became the Holy Roman Empire and became the Roman Catholic Church. Rome never died, it just evolved into an empire governed through churches by men and women who find it easy to be asexual or tend to suppress their homosexuality albeit unsuccessfully. Thus for them it is simple to make a rule barring normal folks from sex until marriage even though humans become sexually mature at puberty.

Alright Constantine , who had a vision accepted Christianity as a religion and was a Christian himself. The Church began way before 324 A.D. and the Roman Empire was extremely cruel to Christians prior to this. Christianity was an underground religion in Rome. You find it easy to slam an enormous number of humans that do nothing but good for humanity because a small number of them have problems. The Church didn't help by attempting to cover this up and buy off victims.

I think they have it right on the family model and the world is proving them right everyday.

 

[afterhours]

No one could ever argue that the Catholic Church screwed the pooch on the Priest on Alter Boys issue. Hopefully after nearly destroying the church through lawsuits the Church has learned from it's mistakes. I'm sure Catholic Priest weren't the only ones to have issues at the alter. They just made the media spotlight.

has the catholic church learned from its mistakes...you would like to think they have, yet cardinal mahony is still not co-operating with police, or victims as they try and prosecute these pedophiles.....so it does not look like much is changing, atleast around southern california.

is the catholic church the only church to have these problems....i doubt it. i do however feel that the church and its strict and oppressive stance on human sexuality might lead to more sexual deviants joining the priesthood. I think the catholic churches policy of selebacy(sp) and priest not being allowed to marry might contribute in a small factor as well.

in the end i have no problem with catholics, or thier beliefs....i do however have a major problems with church, the way it has handled this for thelast 100 years.....and a problem with the individual that is not outraged at what has happened.

why are there not massive demonstrations against the church by it own members for what it has done and how it has handled the sexual abuse of its children?