Questionable Shooting

[Blanca BusaLess]

Vonderbach remember if I put my finger in my shirt and point it at you.
And you think it is a gun I will be charged as if it were a gun.
Same thing goes for them. If the homeowner believed the perp had a gun or weapon that is all he needed. The law is on our side here. Some states would convict if you did not actually see a weapon but FL only dictates belief has to exist. That is the right way cuz you should not have to wait for someone to point their gun at you before you can use yours.
Pepole think carrying a gun makes them safer and better. It does to a point but also it would force you to walk away more often and be more careful because you dont want to be in front of any pissed off cops while carrying.
Its a recipe for confiscation.

 

[MadLight]

F&*k theives. They only do it because it's easier than working. It's obviously profitable look at the extrems theives will go to. The legal system does not work because theives do not fear it. If I can protect this Country then I can protect myself and my belongings.
Make theiving a dangerous job. Then less people will steal.
It's like bullies they only pick on those who won't fight back. 10 years automactically for theft of x-value on private property and vehicle theft no exceptions. Theivin not tolerated.

 

[dadofthree]

Like it was stated earlier, they're just one step away from home invasion robbery. Next time they might come back to take from inside putting your family at risk since they got away with it the first time. They wouldn't have to worry about it if they were out working a regular job rather than taking things that someone else worked for.

I'm all for the "Make my day" laws. At some point people have to be able to protect what's rightfully theirs from the lowlife scumbags of the earth without having to risk going to jail themselves. It's either that or we adopt some other countries laws regarding theft and other crimes. Crooks won't be so apt to steal if they have only have nubs to grab things with.

All joking aside. I agree with your sentiments. Live day in and day out with a system that just can't afford to do the right thing with offenders i.e. repeat offenders. Taking someones life is a deeply personal thing. It's one thing to talk about it on the net, another to do it. Aside from criminal action you have to think about civil action.

Having laws on the books doesn't mean the laws will be enforced. The cops will hunt them down and put them in jail, but then it gets turned over to a system that's not willing to do it's job. Plea bargains are made and they typically plead guilty to a lesser charge and get time served and probabtion, and returned to the streets. It really sucks.

The decision gets easier if they come inside with the family. Typically criminals don't do this. They will hit homes that are empty, no alarms, no dogs, etc. Around here home invasions usually happen to drug dealers. It's a big tip off when the crime is reported but nothing is reported taken.........

 

[dadofthree]

If you're not a lawyer be careful about reading the law and thinking you understand it. Then you have case law. Basically what the courts have done in regards to a law. Castle Doctrines are great. If the State would enforce the laws, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Things go bump in the night, but if you confirm a suspicious activity dial 911 and prepare to protect your life and the lives of your loved ones.

 

[Valkyrye]

... guys... in this whole thread you all seem to be falling back on "Law Enforcement"...now I have nothing but love and respect for them ...but never was the Law Enforcement system designed to run save us like you seem to be expecting. Response time alone negates that and you can't have enough officers on a force to guarantee any better. Yes they are here to "protect and serve" but you have to be willing to do some protecting and defending yourself. Police officers do the paperwork, they document the ugliest times of anyones life and provide assistance when they can....but they are not the cure all...we as a people are the cure all... if we will ever wake up and stop relying on our government to fix everything (shudders).
And don't get me started on "law" as we know it... precedence setting politicians every one of them.

Anyway.. that needed saying..
Val

 

[dadofthree]

One last comment(s). Response will vary from area to area. Our response times are very good. Typically a few minutes. Of course other things can play into that. We had an alarm call the other morning that a dispatcher held for 9 minutes. Through persistent work we arrested this criminal and he is in jail serving time. No property damage because a sliding take out window was left unlocked at the business. Recovered six packs of newports.

Criminals are lazy and work smarter not harder. Make it as hard on them as possible and they will more than likely leave you alone. Crimes of opportunity. Secure your person and property. Most of this stuff is common sense.

 

[tclause]

... guys... in this whole thread you all seem to be falling back on "Law Enforcement"...now I have nothing but love and respect for them ...but never was the Law Enforcement system designed to run save us like you seem to be expecting. Response time alone negates that and you can't have enough officers on a force to guarantee any better. Yes they are here to "protect and serve" but you have to be willing to do some protecting and defending yourself. Police officers do the paperwork, they document the ugliest times of anyones life and provide assistance when they can....but they are not the cure all...we as a people are the cure all... if we will ever wake up and stop relying on our government to fix everything (shudders).
And don't get me started on "law" as we know it... precedence setting politicians every one of them.

Anyway.. that needed saying..
Val

 

[slep_rock]

No sympathy for thieves no matter what they steal bubble gum or busa stealing is stealing.

+1

 

[Haya01B]

I am interested in finding out the results of this incident after the court case.. In my opinion he will have a tough time explaining why he shot the woman if she was not near his truck. He might burn on that one!

I took the CCW class here in NC and one example of excessive force was shooting a person when the threat is neutralized. There are so many gray areas in the laws that can be the difference from you going to prison or going home.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Haya01B the only thing the Homeowner/shooter needs to do is honestly be able to say I thought she was in the car with a gun and I may have died.
If when they ask he cannot say that and they see any faltering in his words or face he may burn but you know as well as I do people sit in cars with guns watching the backs of the folks who are doing the lootin'.
Again long thread, long arguement but if you make the decision to go outside and confront them you should consider all parties hostile.
You shoot the guy and leave the girl alone thinking she is no threat and she comes out of car and cuts you in half with a load of 00 !
Whoops....cant hit respawn on that one !

C'mon aint you ever seen Natural Born Killers ?
Mallory was a BEYOTCH !

 

[Haya01B]

Guess the story has to match the ballistics too!

The only thing could happen now as far as crime in the neighborhood is either it's going to slow down or fatal shootings are going to increase. Now that thieves are seeing property owners are serious about their stuff they may get more aggressive.

A guy tried to rob a off duty deputy sheriff at a ATM in Greenville NC last week. That was a mistake! The guy had a shot gun and the deputy pulled his weapon and killed him. Two years ago a guy walked into a local service station and demanded money. Before the owner had a chance to even move the guy opened up on him with a AK47.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Regarding response times FUGGETABOUTIT !
I CANT EVEN GET 911 TO ANSWER IN LESS THAN A MIN !
Yes thats right I had a four car acc with serious injuries happen in front of my house a few weeks back.
The woman in minivan had a baby strapped into his seat Thank God cuz she got hit at least 3 times before stopping on top of my neighbors car !
I live on a street in Palm Beach county that has the only two turns on it in the county and people forget how to steer sometimes and go straight thru into oncoming traffic.
Happens at least once or twice a yr.
The phone rang for 1:07 before anyone picked it up.
ALOT CAN HAPPEN IN A MIN.

Your whole family as well as yourself may be dead.
Heres a pic of the TC.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

He better be straight.
Sometimes people are in the right and are so shocked they cant speak straight.
Usually as in now they will let things settle just long enough to get a good calm interview out of them but not long enough for fact and fantasy to start to play tricks with the mind.

Listen when those folks shot themselves in front of me I could not speak.
Not for a while and not about that. It really shakes you.
People are not deer and when you see and hear them scream or twitch its not a hoof or snort !

Being in the right and shooting someone does not mean its over when its over. yes you may be alive in the right at home with your family but you will still have to live with the fact you took anothers life.
As guilty or deserving as they may have been it is still something you dont want stuck in your head for life !

Personally I think there would be ZERO crime if we executed those deserving on Natl TV.
Just like when they do for the Pres.
We now interupt your normal television programming to show you the execution of Jeffrey Dahmer.
We too wimpy now. Off with their heads at the Bastille.
They will see we dont F around.
Now yes free room and board with AC, now the PBC jail even has cable I hear.
They aint Skeered !

 

[Liltroy]

I can vouge for the police responce time thing. Everytime my wife has ever called its taken at least 20 or 30 minutes for them to get here...by that time I've usually taken care for the problem myself. A thief can take off with alot of crap in 30 minutes.

 

[pbghost]

too many variables go into response time complaints...the main cause in this area is simply manpower, or lack of. due to budget cuts, it seems that city council and the county commissioners see it more fit to cut law enforcement and thier equipment and bolster parks and thier wages.(I can only speak for here, but have attended a few seminars in the past and talking with others, it seems par for the course) alot of stuff behind the scenes that leos and dispatchers have to deal with caused by lack of resources. more people need to lean on the commissioners and council to back the p.d. and s.o. then you might see better times and attitudes.
look what the gas crunch did to alot of departments...hard to go on call when your ride is on empty and your budget is cut

 

[Liltroy]

too many variables go into response time complaints...the main cause in this area is simply manpower, or lack of. due to budget cuts, it seems that city council and the county commissioners see it more fit to cut law enforcement and thier equipment and bolster parks and thier wages.(I can only speak for here, but have attended a few seminars in the past and talking with others, it seems par for the course) alot of stuff behind the scenes that leos and dispatchers have to deal with caused by lack of resources. more people need to lean on the commissioners and council to back the p.d. and s.o. then you might see better times and attitudes.
look what the gas crunch did to alot of departments...hard to go on call when your ride is on empty and your budget is cut

The issue is not "why" the responce time is so hi, its that "because" the responce time is so high we're more prone to have to take matters into our own hands or lose our crap.

 

[jdsbusa]

All joking aside. I agree with your sentiments. Live day in and day out with a system that just can't afford to do the right thing with offenders i.e. repeat offenders. Taking someones life is a deeply personal thing. It's one thing to talk about it on the net, another to do it. Aside from criminal action you have to think about civil action.

Having laws on the books doesn't mean the laws will be enforced. The cops will hunt them down and put them in jail, but then it gets turned over to a system that's not willing to do it's job. Plea bargains are made and they typically plead guilty to a lesser charge and get time served and probabtion, and returned to the streets. It really sucks.

The decision gets easier if they come inside with the family. Typically criminals don't do this. They will hit homes that are empty, no alarms, no dogs, etc. Around here home invasions usually happen to drug dealers. It's a big tip off when the crime is reported but nothing is reported taken.........

Well around here, and trust me, we live in a relatively small "feel safe" community, there were 5 home invasions at the end of the year last year. Even in small town America you can no longer take you and your family's safety for granted. I never go to bed with doors unlocked, leave my vehicles unlocked (even if just running in to say the post office for 10 seconds), or anything else that compromises safety or my possessions. Too many dirtballs that think they can just take whatever they like. I'm just tired of seeing the same people locked up time after time, only to get out and commit the same or more serious crime. They seem to have more freedom than the common working man does - p's me off to no end! Plea bargains should be reserved for only the smallest misdemeanors - a felony is a felony and should be treated as such, not pled down to probation.

 

[slatroni]

God lovesTEXAS!

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

ALL THIS TALK ABOUT GUNS MAKES ME WANT TO BE LIKE MY FATHER IN LAW AND JUST CARRY A MACHETE.....
OFF WITH THEIR HEADS !

 

[pbghost]

The issue is not "why" the responce time is so hi, its that "because" the responce time is so high we're more prone to have to take matters into our own hands or lose our crap.

I understand 100%...just sayin' that a better equipped / better staffed police force is a great deterrant because of decreased response time and increased presense. the only way to get that is if city council and county commissioners approve of it. a crook will target a place if he / she knows that they have "x" amount of get away time to make it worthwhile. the unknowing of who's packing is also a great deterrant, but instead of paid admin leave during the post shooting investigation (leo), the normal citizen will get arrested / charged and it is up to a judge,lawyer,jury to make sure it was justified. leos are subject to the courts too, don't get me wrong, but it seems more of a hassle for the normal citizen.