Radiator / coolant system sucking air

[delbert]

i would very much doubt you got a gasket or head prob, your not really losing water it just aint being sucked back in the rad after expansion , my water level in the tank will match yours after a run then sorts its self out when cooled down , but i bet if i pulled the cap & released the vacum it would stay in the the tank ,
im sure the guys here would be only to pleased to help with a tear down & would certainly make an interesting thread .
Good luck what ever you decide , remember some times its something silly you just may be over looking, or its born that way
dale

 

[delbert]

just one other thought , is the hose from the expansion tank to rad ok ,may be ok with water being pushed through but being sucked flat on return

 

[RedFalco]

I'll check that out. At the point of replacing all coolant hoses and taking the radiator to a radiator shop to get tested.
With the bike at an idle warm up and cool down (doing the burping process), everything works as it should. Fluid level goes to the hot level marker on the overflow tank and goes back down to cool level mark when engine cools down. If I ride around and keep the RPMs below 3 and ahalf, fluid level works as it should. Rises when hot (never above hot level mark on overflow tank) and when cooled down, its at the cool level mark. If I get on it and ride above 4rpms and higher, I can see the level go well above the hot level mark if I stop after this type of run. Let the bike cool and the level on the overflow tank remains the same. Open the radiator cap and its about 1/4 inch below neck. But as said, I can suck the fluid out of the overflow tank and put it back in the radiator and its back to where I started. Not sure if its actually loosing fluid.
The last "hard" run I waited for the bike to cooldown (the next day) started the bike upto an idle and white smoke came from the exhaust pipes for alittle while then disappeared. Today I tried to catch it on video and no white smoke once so ever.
So I went through the burping process this morning again and will take it out tonight for a short ride exceeding 4pms. I'll park her for the night and video the startup in the morning to see if it repeats.
Really do appreciate you keeping my problem on your mind. It sure is fustrating. Been reading up on head gasket threads all morning long. Have not read a thread that ends well with a stock engine; both cases found a cracked head. The turbo guys seem to go through head gaskets like nothing and understandably so.
You have motivated me to tear down this sucka myself if thats the route I must go. Wanna get some good pics of the head and not miss a beat. I believe I can send the head out to APE for a resurface when needed.
Thanks again.

 

[RedFalco]

Figure I'll keep my progress in the same thread as every subject I've researched on this topic got broken up into new threads making it very hard to determine the ending result.
So here's were I sit today; spent about 9 hours taking my time cleaning parts, inspecting and labeling everything as I went step by step through the manual.
Hit a road block on pulling the engine. Not sure as to where to place the jack without collapsing/damaging the oil pan by the weight of the engine. Manual does not specify any given area. Need some advise below... "Red or Yellow" on jack placement or another area? Also manual shows front wheel on the floor and turned completely to the right prior to dropping and removing the engine; would it not be easier to have it on the front stand?
Also noticed a gap of sorts between the block and the cylinder head to which appears to be emitting rust of sorts? Any ideas as to what this gap is designed for? All around the head / gasket area looks really good except for this one spot.
In the process of fabricating a lock nut tool that fits the engine mount locknuts. So maybe in a day or two with you'alls help, I'll have this sucka out and ready to open up.
Sorry for all the questions; first time engine removal here.
So to sum up:

1. Jack placement to support and remove engine.
2. Pointers on front wheel location (lifted or on floor turned to right)
3. Gap between block and head?

ty

 

[dadofthree]

Not certain but there's weep holes in that area designed to keep moisture away from the plugs. I've seen issues with the center gasket on the valve cover causing an issue. Experts should be along.

 

[RedFalco]

*Update*
Did the unthinkable last night. Thats' right, asked the wifey poo to lend a hand in droping the engine. Left the bike on both front and back stands. Surprisingly it went REALLY well (we're both alive with no screaming bouts partaken...lol) As a matter of fact we toasted away a 5th of Jack in celebration... (still hung over...lol)
Should have that ole head out this weekend. Should have the head shipped off to APE week ending for services and upgrades mentioned previously.

What is typically used to clean up around the valves so that the head can be inspected for cracks..etc? Would kerosine be safe to use? Hopefully I won't be looking at a cracked head. lease:
Any suggestions out there for the best price findings on a Cometic ("stock based") head gasket?

 

[delbert]

Way to go!!!! good progress , now the big strip down

 

[RedFalco]

Thanks Delbert!
Slow and steady. Finding that the service manual is not 100% accurate with pictures for my year/model. Having some issues on attempting to get the two "studs" out of the top of the head?.. Don't want to scar them in any way with pliers and such. I'm thinking just leave them in when I send off the head?
Oil looks kinda dark hanging out on top of the head; with only having 90 miles on this change. Thinking because I switched up from Royal Purple to MobilOne. Not sure what EngIce looks like with MobilOne mixed in together so we'll chaulk the color up to the change over in oils.
Here's some pics on my progress to date. If ya'll see anything that looks outta place or just aint right; tips on what to and what not too's, please lmk.
Should have the head off tomarrow or the next.

 

[delbert]

i see, your on about the two locating dowls in the last pic , grips will be your only real choice , that said if they are that tight then leave em in ,just remember to check they are still there when you collect the head.

looking good ,interested to see what you find

 

[RedFalco]

looking good ,interested to see what you find

TY... As am I interested too; but the sad truth is that I don't know what I'm looking for?

Thanks for the vise grips tip. I used, or rather, tore up one of my wifes rubber grips that she uses for jar lids and such. Doubled it up around the stud; locked the grips around it and a couple turns and out they came. (no scaring or obrassions at all)

So here is the block side with the gasket still attached. I was very carefull not to disturb it when pulling it off and I started snapping off pictures imediately. Took some close ups of each piston. #1 seems to show some signs of pooling of the EngineIce. The last pic is where I gently tried to lift the gasket up and the layers appeared to be seperated in some spots? Hopefully someone who has seen a blown gasket will chime in.
lease:

 

[RedFalco]

And here is the cylinder side. Just about got it prepped and ready to send off to APE so they can work their majic. Sending it out for a resurface, valve job, heavier springs and new guide seals.
No visual cracks that I can see; but I recon that can't be determined until its cleaned up???

 

[delbert]

interesting, not always possible to see exactly where they go if the problem is minor,
does any of the combustion chambers look a different colour to the rest (ie washed )

i dont know if the busa uses a multi layer gasket ( seen many of these fail) or it has deteriorated witch is more than likely your problem

interesting thread all the same , sorry its at your expence

 

[RedFalco]

interesting, not always possible to see exactly where they go if the problem is minor,

Kinda what I was thinking. Probably won't know for sure till its' all back together and running to determine if the symptoms still exist.

does any of the combustion chambers look a different colour to the rest (ie washed )

They are all about the same from what I can tell. Deep, dark bronze mirror type finish. No wash out from what I can see.

i dont know if the busa uses a multi layer gasket ( seen many of these fail) or it has deteriorated witch is more than likely your problem

Not sure; but I believe I've seen it somewhere that OEM gaskets have 3 layers; could be wrong. I'll be switching up to the cometic gasket; description of these are as follows:
These Cometic head gaskets are constructed from multiple layers of stainless steel for strength and excellent rebound characteristics. The outer layers are coated to create a superior corrosive-resistant seal that can withstand extreme cylinder pressures.

interesting thread all the same , sorry its at your expence

It's all good. I've learned ALLOT so far from this experience. Kinda explains why there are'nt any solid concrete photos out here of what a blown head gasket looks like. Open er' up..... change it, if it works..... It was a blown gasket... lol

We'll see..........
Head will be sent off to APE this coming Friday. I'll have a good three weeks or so to do some major detailing on parts of the bike I could'nt do with the engine in there.

 

[delbert]

all good , keep us all posted

 

[RedFalco]

UPDATE:The wifes new purchase put this project on the back burner for awhile. Not to mention pushing RedFalco to the corner for the season.

She's got the "I'LL BE BACK" look going on behind the hood.

 

[RedFalco]

Its all good...and well worth the wait. She's a happy camper and thats all that matters in my world.

With that said... back to my happiness. Got my head back from APE this past week and it looks GREAT! Can't thank Jay and his team enough for the work they've done. An excellent customer experience start to finish. Hats off to you Sir.
Ended up getting the head resurfaced, a Performance Valve Job with Port blend. Got 65lb valve springs installed along with new valve guide seals. Got APEs HvyDuty Studs and nuts. Cometic head gasket for reassembly. Picked up a new tensioner gasket also. Mine came off with half on the head; the other on the tensioner. (note to self)
Turned the garage heaters up to a comfortable 76 degrees, I've got the TomBo Racing Video BURNED in my brain. I may be looking at an all nighter.

 

[delbert]

wondered where you been hiding , looking good though

 

[RedFalco]

wondered where you been hiding , looking good though

lol.. Yeah, been peeping around here like a fly on the wall, awaiting funds. lol

Ran into a dellima this afternoon. I'm piece'n' the head back together and I am at a lose on what and where these rings go. They were packaged seperately when I recieved the head back. I'm thinking exhaust ports. If so, how are they oreintated therein? They look to have "tits" of sort on em. (Tits up or tits down?)
Preciate you all.

 

[delbert]

look like exhaust rings , all it says in the manual is " fit exhaust rings with tabs inner most " dont know if this helps , sure some one will be along soon lease:

 

[dmallord]

great thread with lots of pics. awesome job.

i have seen leaking head gaskets push exhaust towards coolant, and yet no coolant in the combustion chamber.

again, great job with your pics on this thread!