Religion

ThunderJohn

Registered
I am not a good Christian. Every time I end up at church some poor guys life is ending wedding/funeral.

If Allah and god are in all extensive purposes the same being as written in the Koran and I were to do traditional Muslim praying is that wrong. I am just using it as a catalyst for personnel gain.

Trying to get a better understanding it is something some old dead guy wrote "know thy enemy like you know thy self"

As far as I have read in the bible it is not wrong if I am praying to god. As long as I don't pray to another god or idol.
 
Huh?
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I don't know anything about the Muslim religion, but here is my thought. Does God and Allah teach the exact same thing? If not, they aren't the same person.
 
Ok, i think I cracked this one. The guy is a Christian, but wants to nail a muslim chick, and ''praying'' to allah may help his chances. Right?

I think in the Koran it says it is ok to lie to your enemy,..
 
I am not a good Christian either. Nobody's perfect. I WILL make mistakes as a fleshly human, but with a basic moral baseline [which for me is provided Bibilically], I should be able to differentiate right and wrong, HOPEFULLY doing less wrong and more right. In that end, *I* get less pain and cause less pain in others. And church attendance is always optional. That's just about hangin' with like minded people and soaking up "The Word"

As a man, I can't prove or disprove if Allah and "God" are exactly the same. I've based my beliefs on faith from what I have seen work in my life and many other's lives. I've not read the Koran so I don't know what all is in there, but I hope most of it is good stuff since there are so many people that follow it. I seriously doubt it says anything like, "car bombing your way to our higher plane will land you 29 virgins"

What do you mean using it for personal gain? If that is the case, it's probably as wrong as anyone else in the world stepping on the next guy to get ahead in life and business.

It's probably okay to pray, as long as you are not just doing for personal gain. Then it is just like lying and hypocritical.

my thoughts
 
Well, Islam's heaven sounds good though.
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C'mon, your goal in life is to be good so you can die and go to heaven and have sex w/ 40 virgins?? Heck w/ the right money and crowd I could probably hook that up now.
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Of course I don't have that kind of money or crowd.
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As an Ordained Minister. I am Always Riddled with that Sort of Question in One way or another. Is God really JESUS ?  Maybee the Buddist got it right.  What about the Mormons ?  They claim the have the True Church !!!!
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I don't know !!!! God is a Personal Realationship between the Believer and the Higher Power !!

I don't care what anyone tells you. You don't have to Know the BIBLE to Know GOD !!!!
 
Religion is always a great topic.  I personally enjoy talking about it because i get to see all the different perceptions, etc, and what people feel God wants them to do, and how they feel about Him, etc.

let me start this off by saying that I am a VERY non-judgemental person when it comes to religion.  I think everyone has a right to believe whatever they want to believe.

I dont really know how id quantify my "religion"  as i do not attend any sort of church at all.  I don't get much out of going to a formal church service of any kind, and I've tried plenty of different ones.  I guess i feel like a formal church service is an attempt to put a "one size fits all" spin on organized religion.  the clergyperson cannot possiblt write a sermon that everyone can relate to, nor sholg they be expected to.  That being said, i feel like it's a waste of my time.  

However, I see God at work in the world every day, and I don't really have to look too hard to find it.  I can relate a great personal experience to you that illustrates it.  it's a little long, but it makes my point.

A few years back, my wife and I were sitting at home having breakfast.  This grey cat shows up at our back door meowing.  We don't like to see any animal go without, especially one as skinny as this one, so we got a bowl out, put some food in it, and opened the door to put it outside so shed have something to eat.  She didn't go for the food - instead she immediately ran into the house.  now, at the time, we felt that we had all the cats we wanted in the house, so we put her back out.  She kept coming back and trying to get in the house.  Finally we let her come in, but kept her separate from the other cats because we didnt know what kind of diseases she might have.  we put an ad in the paper in hopes that someone would call and want to adopt her.  The next day, we got a call from a family who was interested. they came over to meet her, and they liked her.  they didnt have a cat carrier, so we handed her over and they took her to the car. as they were getting in, she jumped out and ran away.  they said that it was okay, because they needed to go to the store to get food and litter, etc.  And that theyd come back once they did that.  Well, they never came back.  However, about 20 minutes later, she was at the back door waiting to be let in.  I decided to give her a bath, which she let me do with NO resistance, and we discovered that she wasnt grey, but white.  The next day, we took her in for her vet appointment that wed made for her, because we wanted to NOT keep her cooped up in one room if we could avoid it, and we wanted to set up an appointment to get her spayed.  we were prepared to have her put down if she had some sort of illness like FeLV, FIP, etc.  Well, she was perfectly healthy - no illnesses or anything, just extremely skinny for a pregnant cat.  The vet told us that she was lucky we found her when we did, because the pregnancy combined with her malnutrition (she weighed 6 lbs) would have certainly killed the kittens within a few days, and probably would have killed her too. When i heard that news, i was like "oh boy"...
the vet told me that he could spay her even with the kittens in there, but ive always been against abortion and have always considered myself an animal lover, so i discussed it with my wife, and we agreed that we were gonna be stuck with kittens.  about a month later, she gave birth to 8 kittens.  Let me tell you, raising 8 kittens was NOT a good time.  We found homes for all but 2 of them.  we kept the 2 kittens plus mommy.  


Now, how does God figure into this, you ask?   well, we asked around to all our neighbors, if they had lost a white cat. not only had none of them lost her, none of them had even SEEN her.  What told her to go to OUR house?   How did she know that she'd be taken care of if she came to us?   I believe that God guided her here.  Also, I think God places chioces in our path to test us.  We certainly could have aborted those kittens, and nobody would have thought anything less of us for doing it.  it was as if God said to me "okay, you claim to love animals, and you claim to not believe in abortion - show me."  it was a VERY stressful time, having all those kittens in our house, and I wouldnt want to do it again, but i never regretted it for a second.  As a result, we have 3 beautiful and loving additions to our home.  They give us SO much more than I feel like we give them, they're a true blessing and a joy to be around.  I think that everyone on earth is here for a purpose, or multiple purposes.  if the most important thing I ever do in my life winds up being rescuing Lily( which is what we named her) I'll be perfectly fine with that.

if you think about it, Jesus, when he was on the earth, did not spend his time with the wealthy or the noble. he spent his time with the common man, and with those who needed Him most.  granted, a lot of people would say "it's just a cat" but arent they God's creatures as well?   I'm sure that he loves them too, and helps them.  She was definitely a cat who needed help, and I'm thankful she came to us to get it - we've definitely been repaid.  


Again, I apologize that this was so long, and I could go on with another cat-related story, but I wont bore you guys.  I just wanted to say that religion can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
 
Clarification.

I am in the military and I work allot with/against Muslims. We all get these cultural sensitivities classes and until recently everyone one I had been to was some white guy who read about Muslims and Islam but recently they have gotten better and we have been being taught by actual Muslims that live their life that way. Why I was asking is that maybe I could understand them better if I were to walk a mile in their shoes. I mean we do their customs and if I am working with them and they are fasting I do to. I have never taken beyond basics. I was just thinking of going all out and living like them for a while to get the small ins and outs of their religions to be more educated so I would know why they do certain things and why they don't do others.

I believe in god and just do not want to perish in hell for eternity by trying to do something that is essentially to give myself a leg up on them.

No it is not to nail some Muslim chick if that were the case I would have never asked the question and would have already been attending her mosque.
 
I highly doubt God would hold it against you if you studied another religion for the purpose of staying alive...
 
Politics AND religion are both NOT allowed on my bar.......so I'm calling an official "BAR FOUL", not to be confused with "Shenanigans".......we'll be kicking NO-BUTT here..........

There is a valid introspective going on here though...Is Jesus REALLY God
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?, is Allah REALLY God
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?, Was Joseph Smith REALLY a NUT...that's where "Faith" comes in kids....I have a certain amount of Faith in regard to The Divine One. I also have a certain amount of Faith in the Laws of Physics......Spirituality is relative.....what do "YOU" believe
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?.......

Now I may be stretching it a bit here kids but I have a reasonable belief that if I, The Spudster, were the Creator, which I am NOT so let's not get deluded, would I get more joy from watching my creation "try and have Faith and Love ME, and try and treat my other creations kindly", than "try and have Faith and Love ME, and kill and mame my other creations because they look different or do things differently"..........Hmmmm...I wonder.....

I have reason to believe, as a fallable, limited human being, that God's Wisdom, Intelligence, and Understanding are "F-A-R" HIGHER than that of my limited-human qualities.....I see GOD'S "fingerprints" left many places in day........but I can't tell ya what the Hand looks like.......
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Have Faith in what you "feel" is right, not because someone or something tells you to...........there's no right or wrong on this one.......there will be no test.......

"We're amoebas in GOD'S Pond......"

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As a former Mormon, I can assure you that the religion does NOT have the truth and yes, Joseph Smith was a nut.
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No offense to any other Mormons on here because there are plenty of great people who follow Mormonism. The people are not always whacked even if the religion is.

The way I look at it, "religion" is the bricks and mortar and the collection plates or tithe envelopes. The organization. Religions are a dime a dozen and in my opinion, the VAST majority are interested solely in your money. The ones who are not are really, well, pretty nutty. Both are the antithesis of what I think a true believer is all about.

There are a few believers of Christianity I know who I respect simply because they are not the usual whackjobs. Thrasherfox is one, WWJD is another and there are a few in my personal life outside this board who deserve respect. They are few and far between, however.

That's religion, though.

"Sprituality" is an entirely different matter. Religion and spirituality are NOT connected though sometimes, a person may feel that if he or she has the one, he may desire the other. Gathering in groups is a social device which gives people encouragement and support for the things they wish to do. Religion and spirituality are no different in this regard.

Sprituality is something different. A person who feels peace in the heart and soul and seeks to give that comofort to others by relieving their discord is a spiritual person. These people can find their spirituality wherever they may be, whenever they wish for it. It's more than just mere contentment thought that is a part of it. No, it's a heartfelt connection to the people and the world around you.

For me, "church," is on the back of the Busa in a canyon road where the trees are rustling in the breeze and the creeks are gently flowing over the rocks. It's a place where I can lay back on the Busa and contemplate how fortunate I am to be able to see such beauty and be a part of it. Those are the times when I feel the most powerful, the most at peace, the most energized, the most capable. I feel a greater love for my fellow man during those times and wish and hope that all people can sometime feel what I'm feeling at the moment. When I go back home, I'll tell my wife, my friends and my family what I've experienced in the hopes that someday, they will want it too and will seek it for themselves.

It's a good thing to understand others, though. A study of any other person's beliefs and understanding the path they discovered to their spirituality is a privilege and really, an honor. Sometimes, you can do a little reading or a littel chatting with the othee person and get a good understanding of their sprituality or their religion or both. Sometimes, it's good to attend a service or do a bit more reading or do some prayer and fasting. I see no reason why embarking on the religious path of another would be problematic.

I do believe wholeheartedly that if life has any real overarching purpose, it is that we learn everything we can about each other.

--Wag--

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Clarification.

I am in the military and I work allot with/against Muslims. We all get these cultural sensitivities classes and until recently everyone one I had been to was some white guy who read about Muslims and Islam but recently they have gotten better and we have been being taught by actual Muslims that live their life that way. Why I was asking is that maybe I could understand them better if I were to walk a mile in their shoes. I mean we do their customs and if I am working with them and they are fasting I do to. I have never taken beyond basics. I was just thinking of going all out and living like them for a while to get the small ins and outs of their religions to be more educated so I would know why they do certain things and why they don't do others.

I believe in god and just do not want to perish in hell for eternity by trying to do something that is essentially to give myself a leg up on them.

No it is not to nail some Muslim chick if that were the case I would have never asked the question and would have already been attending her mosque.
To be a student of world religions is a very open minded thing to do.
I have to say that the traditions of the muslim people you work alongside are rooted in their own pre-muslim culture more so than the teachings of Muhammad and the Koran.
Each regional group of followers incorporates their own traditions with the religion. It happens in Christianity and all others.
Successful integration of a new culture into the religion has always relied on a heavy mixture of local tradition.

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Applause to you for the willingness to learn about others. Unfortunately the truly brainwashed will see it as heresy since that is the fear programmed into their minds.

I am just a simple Atheist though, what would I know.
 
BiGuy, interesting position you are in. I still feel you would need to sincerely believe in order to REALLY pray with them, otherwise you are just going through the motions? And that would be offensive to you, them and your God. But that is JUST my opinion and perspective. Be true to YOUR soul. If they degrade you because you do not ACT like you are believing what they do, then they need to loosen up and accept that people are allowed to believe their OWN beliefs.

If Muslims came over here to hang out with me, I would NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER expect them to ACT like a Christian to be accepted or PRETEND to be interested in my belief systems. I would, however, hope that they would just be themselves. I would expect them practice their own religion however they like to.

just my opinions and perspectives
 
The way I look at it, "religion" is the bricks and mortar and the collection plates or tithe envelopes.  The organization.  Religions are a dime a dozen and in my opinion, the VAST majority are interested solely in your money.  The ones who are not are really, well, pretty nutty.  Both are the antithesis of what I think a true believer is all about.
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I dont think there is any "TRUE" religion. If there is a higher power, than I'm sure that power would be perfectly happy with you praying to him/her no matter what name you give it.
More people have died in the name of religion. What does that tell ya?

PS...I really should stay outta this thread.
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I dont think there is any "TRUE" religion. If there is a higher power, than I'm sure that power would be perfectly happy with you praying to him/her no matter what name you give it.
More people have died in the name of religion. What does that tell ya?

PS...I really should stay outta this thread.  
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Cum'on... Join in... We'll make it interesting.
 
My 2 cents
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Worship Which God?

UNLIKE the animals, we humans have the capacity to worship. This is part of our makeup from birth. We also have a moral sense, a conscience to guide us as to what is right and what is wrong. In various ways all of us follow that conscience, and in doing so, many look to a god or gods for guidance.

During the past century or two, some worldly intellectuals have disputed the existence of an almighty God and Creator. In 1844, Karl Marx declared religion to be "the opium of the people."￾ Later, Charles Darwin brought forth the theory of evolution. Then came the Bolshevik revolution. In Eastern Europe atheism became official state policy, and it was claimed that religion would die out with the generation of 1917. But those atheists could not change the way humans are made. This is evidenced in the resurgence of religion in Eastern Europe at this time.

However, as the Bible says, there are many who "are called "Ëœgods,' whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "Ëœgods' and many "Ëœlords.'"￾ (1 Corinthians 8:5) Through the ages mankind has worshiped a multitude of gods. There have been gods of fertility, of love, of war, and of wine and revelry. In the Hindu religion alone, gods number into the millions.

Trinities of gods have flourished in Babylon, Assyria, and Egypt, as well as in Buddhist lands. Christendom too has its "holy"￾ Trinity. Islam, rejecting the Trinity, has "no god but Allah."￾ Moreover, even those who scoff at the concept of an invisible, almighty God have their own gods. For example, at Philippians 3:19, the Bible says of humans who are snared in materialistic pursuits: "Their god is their belly."￾

Most people worship the god or gods of the land or society into which they happened to be born. This raises questions. Do all forms of worship lead to the same place"â€￾like roads up to a mountain peak? Or do many of religion's mystic roads lead to calamity"â€￾like pathways to a precipice? Are there many proper ways to worship or is there just one? Are there many praiseworthy gods or is there just one Almighty God who is worthy of our exclusive devotion and worship?

So my feeling is, "For us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things . . . and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things."￾ "â€￾1 Corinthians 8:6
 
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