ResidentEvil
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anything else going on with the testing on this subject ?
Secondary Butterflies removal review
- Thread starter Dozerdriver
- Start date
Amode
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Sure lots going on with the STP's with me. First of all never take them out just adjust them. What you need to do is Adjust the STP, The Inj ballance, Timming.Then you get a smooth idel, And a lot of power thru all the gears.I have had many many maps in my bike trying to figure the system out. Now i can step it up or tone it down it's so fun to ride. Everybody is so into dyno's with numbers so be it. My numbers are big in the STP's and some big and some small in the Inj ballance, And a lot of timming. The mileage is still great and pulls great not like a stock bike with all the flat spots and lag areas.Then you go out and learn the new power curve. Dyno's will not give that to you.
Chuck
Chuck
I took mine out, I am happy with the way it runs,, I did put them back in for a while but missed the
abruptness of the throttle,,, I just like the feel of WFO now!!!!!! I know Suzuki made it a little soft with the butterflies but I just did not like the lag,,,,, To each his own,,,,,
Mike
abruptness of the throttle,,, I just like the feel of WFO now!!!!!! I know Suzuki made it a little soft with the butterflies but I just did not like the lag,,,,, To each his own,,,,,
Mike
mister08busa
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i agree with busakid08 i called brock and asked the same question he said the it doesnt hurt to remove them on the gen1 but do not remove them one the gen 2 because in the long run its not good it will mess something up actually ej from brock performance told me that
They don't exist on gen 1
Why is it so hard after two years to get a Gen 2 on the dyno and do a quick before and after removal pull? I would have thought that after two years someonee would have a bike on the dyno.........
By the way Frank, If I win the lotto I want a killer street engine for my BKing!
By the way Frank, If I win the lotto I want a killer street engine for my BKing!
+1
I removed mine for several thousand miles and liked how the bike felt.
I later put them back and have played with them in ecu editor.
Smith has said that after 94% opening, anything above that causes turbulance to delvelop in the tb's, and no further gains were made. Smith, please correct me and I appollogize if I am incorrect.
I don't doubt him at all. What I would think though is than the 94%+open angle of the butterflies as well as the shaft they're mounted on is the cause of the turbulance.
I would love to see the entire shaft removed and holes plugged and see if any gains could be made.
I'de also like to see the stp maps of guys who've had ecu editor dyno tunes, to see if the stp's are at 94% across the board in every gear.
In my head I can see the tuning benefits with and without them, but I like the less linear/more agressive throttle feel without them.
I'm gong to try to get mine ecu editor dyno'd in the next several months, and I'll be asking these questions.
I removed mine for several thousand miles and liked how the bike felt.
I later put them back and have played with them in ecu editor.
Smith has said that after 94% opening, anything above that causes turbulance to delvelop in the tb's, and no further gains were made. Smith, please correct me and I appollogize if I am incorrect.
I don't doubt him at all. What I would think though is than the 94%+open angle of the butterflies as well as the shaft they're mounted on is the cause of the turbulance.
I would love to see the entire shaft removed and holes plugged and see if any gains could be made.
I'de also like to see the stp maps of guys who've had ecu editor dyno tunes, to see if the stp's are at 94% across the board in every gear.
In my head I can see the tuning benefits with and without them, but I like the less linear/more agressive throttle feel without them.
I'm gong to try to get mine ecu editor dyno'd in the next several months, and I'll be asking these questions.
Amode
Registered
I have done a lot adjustments to stp, Inj bal, Timming. I would never remove stp's, Just by moving the 94's up and over creates a bog and less power. So you have to get the ratio right.The stp's are not new teck they had this vacum setup back in the 60's on the carb's. Now when you get a good ballance on the STP's you can put more timming in it then it will run smooth and idle good. I do not believe taking out the stp's it will run better. The first thing is the idle. I will be going to the dyno @ jims soon, But just to test my three maps i like.If you take the flys out the ECM does not no that it still has to go thru the system it just gets more air. Every body should no that if you get more air you need more fuel and spark.
Chuck
Chuck
Just thought this might help explain how increasing airflow can decrease performance.
The ports on these engines don't open and close in lockstep with the piston going through it's four phases (intake, compression, power, exhaust). On the intake phase, the intake port remains open for a time even after the piston has reached bottom and is travelling upwards to begin the compression phase. If there is too little restriction on the intake then the cylinder will be filled with a/f mixture prematurely and the piston will have to fight against the excess a/f mixture pushing it backwards out of the intake port until the port finally closes.
The ports on these engines don't open and close in lockstep with the piston going through it's four phases (intake, compression, power, exhaust). On the intake phase, the intake port remains open for a time even after the piston has reached bottom and is travelling upwards to begin the compression phase. If there is too little restriction on the intake then the cylinder will be filled with a/f mixture prematurely and the piston will have to fight against the excess a/f mixture pushing it backwards out of the intake port until the port finally closes.
jumjum01
Registered
Here is the proof that secondary plates is nothing more than a restriction.
My bike is autotuned with no sec. plates and shaft removed. To shed some light on this never ending discussion I put them back in and did some test runs.
If the plates are a restriction it will cause a rich AFR reading due to loss of air...
If the plates speed up air velocity and "cram" more air in, it will cause a lean AFR reading..
Picture 1. is AFR readings in Woolich Racing with secondary plates installed and 94% (full) open.
Picture 2. is AFR readings with plates operating in normal "Mode A" full power mode.
My conclusion: Plates causes a "pig rich" AFR condition until fully open at 6800rpm which means they are nothing but a restriction. Dyno butt could definitely feel the lack of power with this setup.
My bike is autotuned with no sec. plates and shaft removed. To shed some light on this never ending discussion I put them back in and did some test runs.
If the plates are a restriction it will cause a rich AFR reading due to loss of air...
If the plates speed up air velocity and "cram" more air in, it will cause a lean AFR reading..
Picture 1. is AFR readings in Woolich Racing with secondary plates installed and 94% (full) open.
Picture 2. is AFR readings with plates operating in normal "Mode A" full power mode.
My conclusion: Plates causes a "pig rich" AFR condition until fully open at 6800rpm which means they are nothing but a restriction. Dyno butt could definitely feel the lack of power with this setup.
Ecu editor has a stp fueling also to compensate for them being closed off, curious does woolich also have this?
jumjum01
Registered
Yes woolich has the same fuel trim table..
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