Secondary Butterflies removal review

jpowell490 said:
lol, you guys......

I have no idea why you would want a "snappier" busa. As it sets with a full pipe and PC-V if you crack mine open in 1st, 2nd, and at times 3rd you are reaching for the sky and I am 245 pounds.

If you like stunting or wheeling, maybe that is your ticket, but a busa with 2 wheels on the ground will outrun one with only the back tire all day long.
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Of course it will, but it just looks so much cooler on one wheel:laugh:
 
Dozerdriver said:
Does anyone know how much these flies open and what rpm.. I might put them back in and see. I want to try different gears and watch them. If someone is thinking of doing this maybe they will check this out. I am still thinking a TRE opens these more in the lower gears.
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Makes sense, I hope you do that, I'm curious now. It's been said several places that it's for ABC modes, and I know they come into play then too. But The GSXR 1000s have had em for years too, (along with the butterfly in the midpipe), all in an effort to keep the front end down, (as well as emissions).
I hope you can get that TRE again and try that too:thumbsup:
 
I would want some real proof that this makes a difference (dyno) before I would pull my secondaries. My feelings are that the Gen II is so complicated that I wouldn't do anything to the motor that wasn't throughly studied by a skilled tuner (Brock, Yoshi, Dynojet, etc.).

One thing that worries me about the Busa is that it's such a refined motor in stock trim that I am very critical of changes as I won't give up any of it's usability for more Hp.

Just my 2 cents.
 
smithabusa said:
here are the STP tables for each gear.

putting a tre on the bike is nothing but a waste of time in my opinion.

www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/gen2ecu2-stp-tuning.wmv
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Thank you... this is very helpful. I agree that a TRE isn't a very good mod but do think this will work for roll ons in second. 2nd and 3rd gear STPs don't fully open until around 8,400 rpms so this might give a extra jump in front depending what rpm you start off in. I will have to try it out with some buddies. :laugh:
 
on my turbo 08, it made little to no difference using the 1,4,5,6 stp map or the 2,3. i was surprised by that actually
 
any anything that could be gained from stp is probably offset by too much fuel with bike thinking its in 5th gear with ram air compensation
 
That would be my opinion, but if you do plan to do it i would say put her on a dyno and see any gain or loss, to me seat of pants doesn't mean anything, placebo effect can cloud us sometimes LOL
 
smithabusa said:
That would be my opinion, but if you do plan to do it i would say put her on a dyno and see any gain or loss, to me seat of pants doesn't mean anything, placebo effect can cloud us sometimes LOL
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thanks.. you have been a huge help to me and other Busa owners.. I cant thank you enough for all you have done and continue to do. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:
 
I do think my bike feels more agressive at the lower rpms but like smith said it would be better to see it on a dyno. It only took 30 minutes tops to pull them so I figured I would give it a try. If I don't like it after a couple weeks I will put them back in....no biggie. I do think that Suzuki put these in to tame down the power in the lower rpms. It is funny how these same plates cause the bike in " B " and " C " mode to be so tame.
 
smithabusa said:
That would be my opinion, but if you do plan to do it i would say put her on a dyno and see any gain or loss, to me seat of pants doesn't mean anything, placebo effect can cloud us sometimes LOL
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I agree with clouded judgement, in regards to hope for potential power gains. I am skeptical of these things myself, especially just on someone else's opinion that their bike now feels faster. The seat of the pants meter is usually flawed.
I respect your ability and reputation as a tuner. I personally wouldn't claim significant hard dyno numbers either. However the plates are gone and the engine can breathe better just off idle and above, even without a tune.
My seat of the pants meter I feel is a little more credible than saying, the bike accelerates so much faster now. I said, it wheelies up so much easier now. It was literally a night and day difference with MY bike in 1st and 2nd. It felt effortless to lift the wheel, lighter, like a 1000. My freinds agree. And humbly I say, I know a thing or to about wheelies, and I have posted the proof. This thread was intended for the few folks out there like me, who like to wheelie, and specifically Gen2 Busas.
I respect hard numbers and a good tuner, I won't argue with that. I wish someone else who really wheelies(not powers one up once in a while, but stands it up and go's, for long distances, almost every ride) there Gen2 would try it and back me up. And if there is no one, and with all the disbelife, I guess I'll keep the secret to myself.:beerchug:
 
My understanding is that the secondaries aren't "limiting power" in the other modes but rather they are adjusting the air flow into the throttle bodies. Intake air moves differently at different rpm and the secondaries actually increase throttle response at partial and low throttle settings by reducing the flow through the throttle bodies.

There maybe a bit better throttle response going from closed to WFO (possibly a split second wait for the secondaries to get open?), but this is probably at the expense of control at low to mid throttle openings.

I'm no expert but I have removed the secondaries on several bikes and the Busa doesn't have the issues those bikes had stock.
 
crazyarch said:
My understanding is that the secondaries aren't "limiting power" in the other modes but rather they are adjusting the air flow into the throttle bodies. Intake air moves differently at different rpm and the secondaries actually increase throttle response at partial and low throttle settings by reducing the flow through the throttle bodies.

There maybe a bit better throttle response going from closed to WFO (possibly a split second wait for the secondaries to get open?), but this is probably at the expense of control at low to mid throttle openings.

I'm no expert but I have removed the secondaries on several bikes and the Busa doesn't have the issues those bikes had stock.
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BINGO!!!!!!!! I was Not going to Post on this Subject in Respect to Dozer, But you My Friend are a lot Sharper than you give yourself Credit For!!
As Far as the Subject at hand, like Smith Noted....Be Care-full of the "Seat of the Azz-O-Meter".
 
I didn't post this to argue with anyone and I wanted to get all the opinions from you guys. I do see what you guys are talking about and like I said it can be put back. Toxsick.. you wouldn't of upset me at all, this is what we are here for. I take advice well....good or bad. :beerchug:
 
crazyarch said:
My understanding is that the secondaries aren't "limiting power" in the other modes but rather they are adjusting the air flow into the throttle bodies. Intake air moves differently at different rpm and the secondaries actually increase throttle response at partial and low throttle settings by reducing the flow through the throttle bodies.

There maybe a bit better throttle response going from closed to WFO (possibly a split second wait for the secondaries to get open?), but this is probably at the expense of control at low to mid throttle openings.

I'm no expert but I have removed the secondaries on several bikes and the Busa doesn't have the issues those bikes had stock.
Click to expand...

Well, have you removed them on the Busa to see for yourself? And if you adjust airflow, hence limiting airflow, then you can lose power. Air and fuel mix before combustion. If air or fuel is reduced, you have reduced power, or a lean or rich condition, which is not the case according to the spark plugs and the performance of my bike.
This seems to be beating a dead horse and no one wants to consider to point and purpose of the reason I did this. It's a wheelie mod. Don't ride wheelies? Fine, leave em in, argue all the paper numbers you want. It works for me, and my friends that wheelie couldn't belive the difference either, it's not in my head.
 
Wasn't trying to put your mod down. If it works for you then I say go for it. Truth be told most of the mods we do to our Busas are of questionable value because the bike is so good off the showroom floor.

I was just trying to express some of the technicals as lots of people read this and don't understand why stuff is done or whether or not it's something they want to do.

Peace and I wish I knew how to wheelie :tiptoe:
 
crazyarch said:
Wasn't trying to put your mod down. If it works for you then I say go for it. Truth be told most of the mods we do to our Busas are of questionable value because the bike is so good off the showroom floor.

I was just trying to express some of the technicals as lots of people read this and don't understand why stuff is done or whether or not it's something they want to do.

Peace and I wish I knew how to wheelie :tiptoe:
Click to expand...

No problem, and my appologizes if I came across too harsh. It just seemed the intitial reason for my removing them was continuously overlooked. And the posts had turned into performance numbers as opposed to real world usability for my application.:beerchug:
 
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