Should guns be banned?

[GNBRETT]

My deer hunting rifle, (and about 75% of all bolt action rifles) has a detachable box magazine..
How huge is this difference now, especially since AR15s aren't "selective fire" as you put it..

apparently ur not very familar with how easy it is to make an AR-15 into an a full automatic. a drop In auto sear or lightning-link makes a conversion to full automatic is very straightforward. and the clips available are not condusive to hunting but any rifle can shoot and kill anyone buts its quite easy to convert to fully auto. not so with ur average hunting rifle.

and an AR-15 is set up as a modular design which allows the use of numerous accessories such as suppresors, lasers, muzzle brakes, vertical forward grips, etc...

so yes HUGE difference!

 

[captain]

apparently ur not very familar with how easy it is to make an AR-15 into an a full automatic. a drop In auto sear or lightning-link makes a conversion to full automatic is very straightforward. and the clips available are not condusive to hunting but any rifle can shoot and kill anyone buts its quite easy to convert to fully auto. not so with ur average hunting rifle.

and an AR-15 is set up as a modular design which allows the use of numerous accessories such as suppresors, lasers, muzzle brakes, vertical forward grips, etc...

so yes HUGE difference!

So now your talking about conversion of automatic weapons being easy... How many of the shootings in the past 10 years were with fully automatic weapons? Regardless if a magazine holds 30 rounds or 5 rounds the amount of time it takes to change magazines is minimal... So while it all sounds good to ban high cap mags it just means that someone will carry more magazines.... Just a bump in the road for someone that really wants to commit an atrocity.... But hey if it makes you sleep better knowing that you took the rights of others away so you could effectively do nothing....

 

[Flicka]

Yeah - because it's not at all common for gun "buffs" to have 100's of rounds in their houses. Tell that to Flicka - https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/random-thoughts/170057-should-guns-banned-5.html#post2970838

I really, REALLY hope you're not suggesting any sort of association between me and a mass murderer.

 

[jphilipson]

I really, REALLY hope you're not suggesting any sort of association between me and a mass murderer.

Not at all, and my apologies if you took it that way.

I was simply linking to a picture from a gun advocate in this thread that had 100's of rounds of ammo available, since sky said that people don't have 100's of rounds available.

 

[GsxrBots]

apparently ur not very familar with how easy it is to make an AR-15 into an a full automatic. a drop In auto sear or lightning-link makes a conversion to full automatic is very straightforward. and the clips available are not condusive to hunting but any rifle can shoot and kill anyone buts its quite easy to convert to fully auto. not so with ur average hunting rifle.

and an AR-15 is set up as a modular design which allows the use of numerous accessories such as suppresors, lasers, muzzle brakes, vertical forward grips, etc...

so yes HUGE difference!

Apparently you aren't aware of the punishment for doing this! And I'm fully aware of how easy it is. And I run a machine shop. I've done sear modifications before but never to do what would land me in prison.

This doesn't change anything. There were no fully automatic weapons used in ANY of the "mass" murders committed in the last 5 years...

 

[GsxrBots]

Which brings up another point.. Why is the Fort Hood "incident" considered "work place violence" but Newtown is considered a massacre?

 

[Tiller]

Apparently you aren't aware of the punishment for doing this! And I'm fully aware of how easy it is. And I run a machine shop. I've done sear modifications before but never to do what would land me in prison.

This doesn't change anything. There were no fully automatic weapons used in ANY of the "mass" murders committed in the last 5 years...

For real... I havent; read this whole thread but when did the ease of turning an AR into a fully automatic weapon become the problem or issue???

 

[Skydyvyr]

Yeah - because it's not at all common for gun "buffs" to have 100's of rounds in their houses. Tell that to Flicka - https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/random-thoughts/170057-should-guns-banned-5.html#post2970838

I also have several hundred rounds in my home -- there is no way to "just grab" hundreds of rounds and several firearms with multiple mags each and go on a shooting spree. Ammunition is heavy, bulky and not easily managed unless some thought is put into it.

When I go to the range, it takes me a couple of trips between the vehicle and the range to get everything in, and that is with me having purchased gear specifically designed to assist in the carrying of ammo. You don't just throw a few hundred rounds of anything bigger than .22 in a pocket.

When I carry my 9mm, I have 16 in the mag, 1 in the chamber and two extra mags of 16 each. That totals 49 rounds. When I carry the .45 I only have 40 rounds in a similar configuration; 1 chambered and 3 mags. The two spare mags are clipped inside my belt in a specially designed holster. It takes time and thought to gear up when I carry, and I'm carrying much less than that kid was.

It seems to me that the guy was carrying a rifle (I'll have to go back and re-read some of the stories to refresh my memory). I've not seen similar specially designed mag holsters for rifle ammunition (which depending on the rifle is usually much bulkier and heavier than the 9mm I carry).

Even if he just threw it all in a knapsack, it took time and thought and some degree of planning.

--Sky

 

[mysql]

County Police Chief Recommends Arming School Personnel

ST. LOUIS COUNTY (KMOX) - St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch says it is time to talk about arming civilian school personnel following Friday’s massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, comparing it to arming airline pilots after September 11, 2001.

“I see it no differently,†he said. “Pilots have been armed now for many many years, we’ve not had another hijacking and the issue is, for the bad guy, he doesn’t know which airplane he’s getting on, if the pilot is armed or not.â€

Fitch said the killing will not be stopped by legislation or laws. “If there’s somebody that’s really hellbent on doing something like this, they’re not going to care what the law is.â€

The chief is adamant about his plans but realizes his calls for arming school workers will be met with resistance.

 

[Skydyvyr]

County Police Chief Recommends Arming School Personnel

ST. LOUIS COUNTY (KMOX) - St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch says it is time to talk about arming civilian school personnel following Friday’s massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, comparing it to arming airline pilots after September 11, 2001.

“I see it no differently,” he said. “Pilots have been armed now for many many years, we’ve not had another hijacking and the issue is, for the bad guy, he doesn’t know which airplane he’s getting on, if the pilot is armed or not.”

Fitch said the killing will not be stopped by legislation or laws. “If there’s somebody that’s really hellbent on doing something like this, they’re not going to care what the law is.”

The chief is adamant about his plans but realizes his calls for arming school workers will be met with resistance.

Huh...

My first wife was a fourth grade teacher and she would be by far the last person I would want handling a firearm in an crisis. She could barely shoot straight when we were the only ones on the range and there were no distractions. Beyond that, she was not capable of making snap decisions. She needed to think things out and plan -- in an emergency (even non-critical) she could not think clearly and definitely not quickly. Many of her coworkers had similar mentalities. These were not people that you would want using a firearm to protect children. I'd be afraid that as many or more kids would be hurt by the teachers as anyone else in a crisis.

Granted, my experience with primary educators is limited and I am sure that there are many who would be more than qualified.

Contrast teachers with pilots; pilots are trained to make snap decisions that could result in hundreds of people losing their lives if the wrong decision is made. They make life or death decisions as part of their job. I'm much more comfortable with pilots being armed than teachers.

--Sky

 

[jphilipson]

This doesn't change anything. There were no fully automatic weapons used in ANY of the "mass" murders committed in the last 5 years...

Good point. Since fully automatic weapons are highly regulated and not readily available, they don't get used in mass murders.

 

[mysql]

Huh...

My first wife was a fourth grade teacher and she would be by far the last person I would want handling a firearm in an crisis. She could barely shoot straight when we were the only ones on the range and there were no distractions.

No one said all teachers should be armed. Should be voluntary, require a CCW type permit:

"...for the bad guy, he doesn’t know which airplane he’s getting on, if the pilot is armed or not.â€￾"

^^^ The trick is to stop the schools from being an easy target.

Contrast teachers with pilots; pilots are trained to make snap decisions that could result in hundreds of people losing their lives if the wrong decision is made

Way to generalize an entire occupation

 

[E Zurcher]

I know this is not about guns. I bring it up because the mental health issue has been discussed and this article is spot-on!!!

Dr. Manny: Don't jump to hasty conclusions about Newtown shooter | Fox News

 

[Skydyvyr]

Good point. Since fully automatic weapons are highly regulated and not readily available, they don't get used in mass murders.

FWIW, had fully automatic firearms been used in any of the killing sprees, there very well may have been fewer fatalities. Despite what we all see in the movies, full auto is very difficult to keep on target without specific training and experience. The recoil tends to drive the muzzle up wasting ammo above the intended target.

Even though you see it in the movies, you can't hold an AK-47 in one hand and an Uzi in the other and kill a group of people with a single trigger pull. You may hit the first intended target, but the rest of the rounds would be wasted into the air.

Even a three round burst requires some training to manage.

--Sky

 

[jphilipson]

FWIW, had fully automatic firearms been used in any of the killing sprees, there very well may have been fewer fatalities. Despite what we all see in the movies, full auto is very difficult to keep on target without specific training and experience. The recoil tends to drive the muzzle up wasting ammo above the intended target.

Even though you see it in the movies, you can't hold an AK-47 in one hand and an Uzi in the other and kill a group of people with a single trigger pull. You may hit the first intended target, but the rest of the rounds would be wasted into the air.

Even a three round burst requires some training to manage.

--Sky

I kinda like the scene in Predator where Jesse shoots the minigun

But yeah, I know what your saying. I was just pointing out that since fully automatic guns are highly regulated, we don't see them used in these spree shootings.

 

[mysql]

Good point. Since fully automatic weapons are highly regulated and not readily available, they don't get used in mass murders.

I don't agree with that conclusion. As we can see, there are much easier (and cheaper) ways to buy weapons. Full auto isn't needed to kill.

Path of least resistance can more easily explain this than anything else.

 

[GsxrBots]

I kinda like the scene in Predator where Jesse shoots the minigun

But yeah, I know what your saying. I was just pointing out that since fully automatic guns are highly regulated, we don't see them used in these spree shootings.

Reason being they are also quite expensive and aren't cheap to keep "fed"..... You are confusing highly regulated with difficult to acquire.. I can get an M4 just as easy as an AR15, but it isn't worth it to me. There is no "thrill" for me in shooting a fully auto weapon.

The regulations mean nothing for me as far as buying or not buying one. I have a safe full of paperwork anyway, what's another 15 pages or so?

 

[GsxrBots]

Just read this, and it makes sense here:

We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
-Ronald Reagan

 

[GsxrBots]

Also, didn't Columbine happen during the Clinton Assault Weapons ban?

That didn't work then, it won't work now...

 

[captain]

Good point. Since fully automatic weapons are highly regulated and not readily available, they don't get used in mass murders.

The penalty is so high that people think twice about even owning the parts to make it full auto... Now if we can get folks to take this same mentality to the rest of the EXISTING gun laws we will see a significant decrease in violence.. For all those folks wanting to ban assault rifles, how many people were killed in the US with handguns illegally last year? Once again I preface my next comment that Friday was a national tragedy but what about the other thousands that were not shot with an AR15.... How about we go after the things easily in our control that EVERYONE agrees on.. lets get the low hanging fruit then move to the tough discussions...