\"Stock\" MUZZY Piped ZX-12R goes 199.3mph.....

[OB_Rob Muzzy]

To Gixxer1300R,
I wish that we had our GSXR1300. However it is well over 1300cc and on juice. I also wish I had our Turbo ZX12. We did not have either of these bikes with us. Next time. One of the reasons we did the ZX12 was because so many of our customers wanted answeres about the twelves top speed, and they were covinced it is limited. We have answered both. We are currently developing both a 1300,and 1200 turbo. We will try to test both at the same time. The bikes we took to Maxton have been ridden by Doug Meyer only.You seem to be missing the point. We were trying to find out if Kawasaki was messing with us also. We tried the ecu from one of our other bikes also. No difference. Our hope is that the magazine that veryfies the spec's. will do there own test. Including swaping the ecu for one they know is production.

 

[OB_jeffw]

So you slam a man's reputation and not expect him to hear about it? RM has no reason to lie, show him what he has earned....*respect*.

 

[OB_cbxchris]

Yeah I must look pretty silly...If I wanted to convince someone of a stock bikes potential I certainly would NOT have had a closed session. Why not invite a couple mags and say Marty from Dragbike and just go down to a local dealer and get a 12 off the floor in front of everyone...since there`s plenty of them and prove it. I forgot you have to break them in for six months.....but it would be the way to settle it. Doubt you`ll ever see it......this is desperation at its finest hour!!! By the way I have a billet tensioner courtesy of Jay....it doesn`t break. Better go get you some rods and clutch hubs for that 12....and a new oil sight glass...ha ha ha

 

[OB_cbxchris]

After sitting here for a few minutes I just decided that I`m going to go get one of the 12`s myself....no better way to prove something I already know but I`ve still got a stock busa I`m not riding and the 12 might make things interesting for awhile. Well it worked Rob...I`ll order one of your 200 mph pipes.......by the way I do top out my bike(s) it just has to be for a good reason on the street. Not a everyday event. And I`ll admit if wrong ....

 

[DaveO]

C. Dolan,

I agree about how long peak power holds on...BUT 7mph?! That is the world @ 190mph. I would think that would take at least 20+hp to increase that much. Unless the stock gearing is way to tall for the stock power curve.

I have ridden/raced and worked on the 12's. They do seem to have good top end potential, that is where they stay closest to the Busa, IMO. If this is true, then it's time to "tweak" the Busa some more. I can tell you the 12 I have in my shop right now does NOT pull 190+mph, and my Busa does take it on the highway(2 mile stretch). The 12 has run 9.90, just lowered. No matter what **** talk you hear, the 12's do go well.

Dave

 

[OB_Wronglane]

"It's probably a waste of keystrokes"

Your right Doug,your wasting your time.You can't convince people that a bike making 180 HP@the wheel and was designed from the factory to push 200 MPH is a reality with todays technology!Remember,people laughed at the Wright brothers too!

See you at one of the Prostar races.If your still going to Bonneville good luck on breaking the record.

 

[OB_Bill Koz]

Why is it that a stock busa can go 200 with a pipe and a PCII. And a 12 can't go 199 with just a pipe. Even when the 12 produces more HP stock, and the 12 develops even more HP with just a pipe then the busa with a pipe and a PCII. Lets be logical!

Koz

 

[DaveO]

Bill,

My Busa has pipe/remap and it doesn't go 200mph, unless you believe the speedo. I guess I must have got a slow one. An honest guess would be 3-4mph better than stock.

Dave

 

[Gixx1300R]

Well Bill,because it takes more than horsepower to reach those kinds of speeds.It also takes Areodynamics.Air Pressure builds exponentially,at 190 mph it would probably take another 20 horsepower to go another 5 mph with the current frontal area of the ZX12.Guys who compete in Speed records at Boneville understand this.

 

[OB_c.dolan]

To David O: To go from 192 to 199 would take more power at desired rpm. Since gearing wasn't being changed, extending the peak horsepower rpm is just as important as the horse power number, itself. Most dyno charts I've seen show the stock pipe dropping horsepower at least 500 rpm earlier than aftermarket pipe. Even if horse power number itself didn't go up all that much, if it extended 500 rpm further, that could reach the higher mph. At 190 mph, bike may be going about 18~19 mph per 1000 rpm. A 500 rpm extension of peak horsepower may make it possible to get 9 mph difference peak, or near peak horsepower, with same gearing.

 

[OB_c.dolan]

"Boneville" aka: Bonneville near Wendover (sometimes called "Bendover", Utah) Been there, done that, but not with current generation of bikes.

 

[OB_Doug Meyer]

It's probably a waste of keystrokes, but I'll try and address some of the "points" expressed above.
We do not deal in assumptions and speculation, therefore we decided to find out for ourselves what was up with the 12.
That is precisely why you have not seen any posts on the subject from us previously.
If you'll think back to the first drag strip results, we answered the accusations regarding the condition of Rickey's bike clearly and honestly. I think subsequent performance by others as born out the fact that a stock 12 will turn the times (or better) that Rickey did. In fact, Rickey has run mid nines on 4 different 12s! In this same way I think you'll find that the top speed capability is at least as high as we found. I fully expect many others, given the opportunity, will do as well or better.
Do not confuse what the magazines said with what we or any official Kawasaki source might have said. I believe they were as surprised as anyone (especially me- remember I rode the other early release bike when Rickey did) was when the mags did poorly. We decided that when we could find the time we'd get a couple more bikes and do a little testing ourselves.
We could find no evidence of a speed limiter on the dyno and Kawasaki told us there was none.
So here are some facts, take some time away from looking for the gunman on the grassy knoll and think about them.
As stated in the press release we dynoed the bikes we were going to use. So of course we know how much power they make and when a magazine gets the one we used so will you. It wouldn't do any good for me to tell you, you wouldn't believe me anyway. That is why we had Jack Dolan time, check and seal it. He's an independant contractor. He lives by his reputation and integrity.He's been certifying speeds for 25 years and works for all the OEM plus most land speed record competitors. As a matter of fact, the clocks used were the same pieces used at the Black Rock Desert on the Supersonic car. His credentials are impeccable.
I better than probably anybody know what it takes to run fast with a production bike, having set 16 or so Bonneville records over 23 years. The power that the 12 puts out with and without the pipe is perfectly in line with the power required to run those speeds. (My (less aerodynamic) ZX-11 ran 199.444 on 178 hp). You are right, it will take alot more hp to go a little faster. I won't bore you with the math here.
An "eddy current" dyno is a type of dyno, not a "brand" of dyno. Schenk makes many types, one of which is an eddy current such as the one we have. The "speeds" shown on the Dynojet cannot be directly equated to road speed. We have a Dynojet also,so we are aware of the inherent errors. Another reason why the speculated and calculated speeds are inaccurate is that the stock tach and speedos are off, the tach by as much as 1000 rpm. (they all are, even your beloved 'busa's)
We swapped the ECUs around between bikes to determine if there was any difference. There was none. The speeds reported were run with the stock 18-46 gear. We tried going up and down but for the distance available the 46 was best. We never tagged the limiter in 6th even with the 47. I did, however run it to the limiter in 5th just to find it. It is my opinion that anyone with a properly tuned bike, given AT LEAST that much room and the right conditions should be able to duplicate our performance or even better it.

 

[DaveO]

Doug,

Thanx for the response. I'm sure it is appreciated by all. Email me if you can.

FZR007@aol.com


Dave

 

[Guest]

If it was designed to push 200 from the factory then why doesn't it? I think Muzzy has showed us what it really takes - and it doesn't come that way from the factory. In fact it's technically not even street legal after removal of the cats. Maybe now some of the 12 owners will be convinced that there are no restrictions. I believed Muzzy when they told us that back in April. Use enough of "today's technology" and you can see 300.

[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 13 July 2000).]

 

[OB_Greg Gillis]

You guys are too young to remember the "Ramchargers" of the 1960's. They were a "club" mostly composed of engineers from Dodge. They would take a "stock" Dodge and turn in the low 10's. Of course if you drove one off the showroom floor you wouldn't get close to that. Like Ricky on the ZX9, there are all degrees of "stock". I tend to believe the roadtesters in the mag's since they have nothing to gain like Kawasaki actually needs to do.

 

[OB_Hapo]

...when you are afraid to hit the throttle stop for more than a fraction of a second, never mind pin it in the top gears, how are you supposed to evaluate the actual perfomace of your chosen vehicle? Well, I guess one way is to read lots of tests and then spout a lot of crap on the net...how many of the experts out there even check their tire pressure before they take off each day? But then they plunk their cyber asses down in here and tell us all about it...(yes, I crashed ....yes, it was my fault)

 

[OB_NumbNuts]

Doug

Thank you for an excellent report.

its good to know that someone out there is not tied up by all this magazine mumbo jumbo.

I was wondering, if you had both bikes in exactly the same state of 'tune' on the same day etc....
Any chance of this happening soon??
(not that it would really matter, but just for interests sake you understand!!)

Nuts

 

[OB_c.dolan]

To Omega: I have good reason to believe it. I knew this test was coming 2 months ago, and knew results Monday afternoon. Note the name of person doing the timing, and certification. That's my brother. Equipment used was more accurate than GPS or radar guns. I believe the much venerated 194 mph Busa Cycle World run was with radar gun. ..................................... ...RE: horsepower / mph increase: The 7 mph increase is not just an increase in peak horse power. It's also a factor that the rpm in which peak horsepower occurs is also important. On most dyno charts I've seen, the peak is extended about 500 to 700 rpm higher, with Muzzy pipe. This is very significient if mph is to go up, without changing gearing. Gearing was stock.

[This message has been edited by c.dolan (edited 13 July 2000).]

 

[OB_KawAbuser]

Slam, Cough, Choke....excuse me!

Well today's conversation with the Yosh USA folks revealed their ZX12 full system is good for 171 rwhp, bone stock other than the pipe.

I never heard of a Busa getting that kind of resperatory assistance from any pipe, (just a pipe w/o any EFI adjustments).

*********************************************
Bob since your here, how about a nice set of carbon or kevlar race cowlings for your ZX12, at no expense. Made in Japan from the same folks who make the cowls for Kaw WSBK factory team.

 

[Guest]

I guess that means you won't be there.


Pick up a copy of CycleWorld - June 2000 and post the stats for Gadson's run on an actual showroom model stock ZX-12. Subtract the difference from the prototype "stock" runs and post the result. No I'm not holding my breath.