Tax System Explained in Beer

[Red05]

Dennis, first of all, I didn't realize I was spouting. As I get older, the orifices are getting harder to control LOL. If you put those numbers in graph form, you'll see a softening of the curve culminating to a flattening beginning at the 350K mark. Looking at it as a percentage of income does the same thing. Dennis, I don't expect you to agree with me. Your last post makes me think that you think I'm trying to belittle your beliefs on this. I can't imagine anything further from the truth. I respect how you see this, but I firmly believe, as I do my part and I'm willing to follow the progressive curve if I'm fortunate enough to, and I'm not too shy to say that I wish every American would do the same. Senator Obama is challenging us, the first I remember a high ranking elected official doing that since president John F. Kennedy.

 

[semi]

You have a great easy way about you and your willingness to help others is unbelievable. Are you sure you're not a Democrat?

We've never discussed politics or money, but I think we've mentioned beer a time or two

i am more than willing to help any of my friends and even strangers that have found themselves in a jam but i take issue when others start taking my earnings for any reason...btw, i'm not a Democrat or a Republican but somewhere in the middle which is where i think most people are

my suggestion is that the Republicans get to pick a President while the Democrats fill the House and Senate for 4 years, then let them switch for the next 4, etc...that way, no one is allowed too much time to completely trash my way of life

btw, did someone mention beer?

 

[BusaWhipped]

Dennis, first of all, I didn't realize I was spouting. As I get older, the orifices are getting harder to control LOL. If you put those numbers in graph form, you'll see a softening of the curve culminating to a flattening beginning at the 350K mark. Looking at it as a percentage of income does the same thing. Dennis, I don't expect you to agree with me. Your last post makes me think that you think I'm trying to belittle your beliefs on this. I can't imagine anything further from the truth. I respect how you see this, but I firmly believe, as I do my part and I'm willing to follow the progressive curve if I'm fortunate enough to, and I'm not too shy to say that I wish every American would do the same. Senator Obama is challenging us, the first I remember a high ranking elected official doing that since president John F. Kennedy.

Sorry if that last part seemed directed personally at you. Sometimes I just get on a roll. I agree that once someone is paying 1 out of every $3 they earn in taxes, the government stops taking a larger percentage. But what do you consider fair? 1 out of every $2? 2 out of every $3? 9 out of $10? Since it is a percentage, the actual dollar amount grows linearly with the income.

Personally, I'd prefer they get rid of the income tax all together and move to a consumption tax. It would capture billions of dollars gained illegally that go untaxed every year. It would reduce the costs associated with the collection and auditing of 10s of millions of individual tax returns and the cost of refunding overpayment. It won't happen since proper implementation would reduce the IRS to a tiny fraction of its current size and power, a bunch of tax attorneys would become unemployed, and by the time the Congress gets done it will be $0.35 on the dollar.

 

[semi]

Personally, I'd prefer they get rid of the income tax all together and move to a consumption tax. It would capture billions of dollars gained illegally that go untaxed every year. It would reduce the costs associated with the collection and auditing of 10s of millions of individual tax returns and the cost of refunding overpayment. It won't happen since proper implementation would reduce the IRS to a tiny fraction of its current size and power, a bunch of tax attorneys would become unemployed, and by the time the Congress gets done it will be $0.35 on the dollar.

i agree that it won't happen but i think for a different reason...this would result in a HUGE black market in the US...the present one is basically held in check by only carrying illegal substances such as drugs, guns, and prostitutes...but offering regular everyday commodities with a substantial savings (no taxes) would draw in customers that otherwise have no need of it now

 

[BusaWhipped]

... If you put those numbers in graph form, you'll see a softening of the curve culminating to a flattening beginning at the 350K mark. Looking at it as a percentage of income does the same thing...

Here are the numbers in a graph. The lines are taxes paid in 1992, 1993-2000, and 2008 and show the dolar amout of taxes paid for taxable inncomes from $0 to $2,000,000. The percentage "flattening out" still takes 1 out of 3 dollars earned over 350,000. At some point the percentage has to flatten since you will eventually reach 100% and you can't take any more. The progressive tax curve is intended to give lower income people a break, not to punish the higher income people. I know I'm not going to sway you opinion either.

 

[Dino]

Here are the numbers in a graph. The lines are taxes paid in 1992, 1993-2000, and 2008 and show the dolar amout of taxes paid for taxable inncomes from $0 to $2,000,000. The percentage "flattening out" still takes 1 out of 3 dollars earned over 350,000. At some point the percentage has to flatten since you will eventually reach 100% and you can't take any more. The progressive tax curve is intended to give lower income people a break, not to punish the higher income people. I know I'm not going to sway you opinion either.

Source please.

 

[BusaWhipped]

The tax brackets are found here:
The Tax Foundation - U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2008

I created a spreadsheet to calculate the tax based on the tables to create the graph.

 

[BusaWhipped]

If you're wondering how those tax cuts to the wealthy have impacted the middle class, here's the same graph, just limited to the first 90,000 of taxable income.

 

[Red05]

Dennis, thanks for all the work but the charts represent dollars paid, not the progressive curb. I know the curve was originally created to soften the blow on the lower income levels, but with the progression stopping at 350K, a person earning 1 million a year gets a break, in that the percentage is the same as the 350K bracket. You mentioned $1 out of every $3, then $2 out of $3, which would represent a 33% jump. Nobody is talking about anything like this. There would have to be a ceiling, but 350K seems a bit low, by today's earning standards. Also, the fact that Social Security contribution charts stop at about 100K in earning seems unfair. I realize that someone in the higher brackets may not depend on SS, but fair is fair. You and I disagree on these things and we're best off dropping it here. The nice weather calls for riding, not endless discussion of taxation. I doubt anybody else in this thread is still awake LOL.

 

[BusaWhipped]

Put some miles in today and tucked the bikes in for the night. So I'm ready for some more friendly debate about taxation.

 

[wharthog3]

Was looking for this again, and thought it could use a :bump: