Ultra HP builds
- Thread starter trefling
- Start date
He posted as I was typing.1/2 studs, stock head, stock cylinder, stock cams, regular head gasket, C16, Ultra Kit, 38 pounds boost, 602 RWHP/327 ft-lbs. torque, street bike, daily driver . . .
Yep same for me as well. I have the same kit as Frank above but use a larger GT4094 turbo. I made 616HP and I think 317TQ but that was at 40lb of boost in 85 degree Alabama weather and extremely heat soaked. The first 40lb pull made 600HP then we let it sit for maybe a minute or two and then it made 616Hp....that was after all the pump gas pulls. I think if it sat for 30 minutes and really cooled down it would have made more but I really don't care. I run a 240 rear tire and heavy ass RC wheels. Just different dyno's, altitude, ambient air temperature and tuners....but we are pretty close. If I was trying to make more power I would go to RCC for some cam recommendations, and extreme head porting....drop the 240 tire setup and go with an 08 crank.
NICE!!
Sometimes friends and customers urge me to go with a bigger turbo and make more rear wheel horse, but for what? This is a street bike, for God's sake! My track bike makes 580, and I can't successfully put all of that down to the track . . . I'm not really into dyno queens. I do think, however, that with methanol and some major mods and tweeking, the Busa motor is capable of 900+ :stoopid:Now that would be stupid horsepower . . .
NICE!!
Now that would be stupid horsepower . . .
Frank now this is what I"m talking about. What types of major mods are you talking about? This discussion is no different than what you see in the Supra forums. Guys are all shooting for 1000 rwhp just for rep points and anyone who has driven one knows that 600 is more than plenty on the street with street tires. Dyno queens or not, it's just plain cool to be able to crank out that much power. Anyway back to the question, can you please elaborate on what you think it would take to support that much power? I know you are the guy to ask since you have seen and raced so many drag bikes.
The funny bikes out there use turbo and nitrous. What are they doing to their motors to make it hold to that kind of abuse? Please elaborate, your the go to guy around here for stuff us youngin's are still getting schooled about.
bradbusa
Registered
1/2 studs, stock head, stock cylinder, stock cams, regular head gasket, C16, Ultra Kit, 38 pounds boost, 602 RWHP/327 ft-lbs. torque, street bike, daily driver . . .
Frank, did you build this engine with stock internals? (crank, pistons, rods)
If so, that is an awesome testament to how strong these engines are with just a little tweaking(stronger studs) and bolt on mods ie: turbo!
what would you expect this bike to put out if you ran it on pump gas?
either way, that is awesome!
Brad:
There are Carrillo H-beams and Wossner pistons, along with a stock crank, ported head, and oversize valves, both intake and exhaust. On pump gas, I can safely go 20 pounds of boost, where she makes slightly over 400 rear wheel . . .
. . . I have had many turbo bikes since 1977, the Busa is by far the best platform and the best turbo street bike I have had the pleasure of owning so far . . .
Trefling- this type of discussion can and would get very involved. For one, the current piston designs will not support these types of numbers, IMO . . . neither will a 2" up pipe from the turbo. The current plenums are not large enough to flow, and batch firing secondaries will not, again, IMO.
Sequentially firing injectors, sequential spark, a totally separate and very large intercooler, and a much larger plenum would be necessary. A piston that is more "tapered", and directs flow out towards the exhaust valve, leaving less unburnt fuel in the cylinders, etc. FYI, one of my closest friends and co-conspirators has already made 1600+ on a 2JZ, and over 2000 on a 3.5 Nissan engine on methanol, with only 12 degrees of timing. We are in talks at present in regard to the Busa engine design . . .
OB_John Noonan
Registered
piratediverjefff
Registered
HOw's the saying go "if you build it they will come" right? If you could build a Busa with 800-900 rwhp you would officially be the King busa builder even if it never went past the dyno. With a little frame modification a 3" or possible 3 1/2" up pipe could be configured. With methanol an intercooler would not be needed, infact you most likely wouldn't need a radiator either for that big ass turbo you would need. A modified fuel tank could make a little room a larger volume manifold. I would think with dual bosch pumps and finding a way to activate both the primary (larger) injectors in combination with 62 lb per hour secondary injectors you should be able to flow a ton of methanol. If 1/2" ARP L19 head studs can hold 1600 rwhp on a Supra they should be able to hold 800-900 on a meth turbo Busa. When taking out any detonation issues has anyone really found out the true limits on the Wossner pistons? As far as I know nobody has gone that far with them yet. Cryo treated, shot peened, and nitride coated rods, crank, gears and output shafts should be able to help with the stress. Couldn't someone fabricate a cast iron or stainless steel block for the Busa? I respect your lack of interest in dyno queens because your right that none of that can be applied to the street.....but it's still mind awesome to conceive of that much power
I know Vinny has a sick Z but I also have a twin turbo 350Z. I really don't see how he could get more HP out of the VQ (350Z engine) than you could from the JZ. The 350Z has an open deck design with stock iron sleeves. Guys have been upgrading them to modified steel sleeves but the block is still nowhere as strong as the cast iron block of the supra versus the aluminum block of the Z. I love my Z but I can't imagine or even possibly brag of ever beating a fully build Supra in the HP department. I've seen 1500 rwhp Supra dyno charts but I have yet to see a 1000+ rwhp VQ platform.
HOw's the saying go "if you build it they will come" right? If you could build a Busa with 800-900 rwhp you would officially be the King busa builder even if it never went past the dyno. With a little frame modification a 3" or possible 3 1/2" up pipe could be configured. With methanol an intercooler would not be needed, infact you most likely wouldn't need a radiator either for that big ass turbo you would need. A modified fuel tank could make a little room a larger volume manifold. I would think with dual bosch pumps and finding a way to activate both the primary (larger) injectors in combination with 62 lb per hour secondary injectors you should be able to flow a ton of methanol. If 1/2" ARP L19 head studs can hold 1600 rwhp on a Supra they should be able to hold 800-900 on a meth turbo Busa. When taking out any detonation issues has anyone really found out the true limits on the Wossner pistons? As far as I know nobody has gone that far with them yet. Cryo treated, shot peened, and nitride coated rods, crank, gears and output shafts should be able to help with the stress. Couldn't someone fabricate a cast iron or stainless steel block for the Busa? I respect your lack of interest in dyno queens because your right that none of that can be applied to the street.....but it's still mind awesome to conceive of that much power
I know Vinny has a sick Z but I also have a twin turbo 350Z. I really don't see how he could get more HP out of the VQ (350Z engine) than you could from the JZ. The 350Z has an open deck design with stock iron sleeves. Guys have been upgrading them to modified steel sleeves but the block is still nowhere as strong as the cast iron block of the supra versus the aluminum block of the Z. I love my Z but I can't imagine or even possibly brag of ever beating a fully build Supra in the HP department. I've seen 1500 rwhp Supra dyno charts but I have yet to see a 1000+ rwhp VQ platform.
He has special sleeves made up for his VQ blocks, something I have never seen before . . . totally trick, not stock iron sleeves. From what I know, the stock block can't handle the kind of power they are making. I saw his Pro Car go low 6s at (I think) 220+ in California a few years back . . . that team got disbanded due to poor money management (not by him) unfortunately . . . the owner of the team was an a-hole. Just when we were having fun.
And, FYI - its not that I have no interest in dyno queens - in this day and age, keeping a shop going takes so much time, I just don't have the luxury of going off on an engine program for bragging rights, although I would love to. It is awesome to conceive that type of power! If i was independently wealthy, I would close my shop and just do R&D . . .
cdhoroho
Registered
there is a builder that has been higher then the record but they are not in the us and dont go to the competition
also no need for secondaries in batch fire when they now have the ID2200 injectors for methanol setups
they are 2000cc injectors and will flow a load of fuel but run good on less also (seb uses them they are a high imp injector also
so fueling wouldnt be the problem
(and no i didnt read the whole conversation sorry)
also no need for secondaries in batch fire when they now have the ID2200 injectors for methanol setups
they are 2000cc injectors and will flow a load of fuel but run good on less also (seb uses them they are a high imp injector also
so fueling wouldnt be the problem
(and no i didnt read the whole conversation sorry)
2wicked
Registered
Its more then just the engine at the hp levels that are being discussed. Stock ignition system is done before 700hp, all the high hp bikes have been using standalones with aftermarket ignitions. I too could build something in the 800-900hp range, maybe even 1000, but you can bet I am not doing it on my dime. Whe the time comes that a customer wants this type of bike, then it will be built,
Richard
Richard
2wicked
Registered
2wicked
Registered
Need bigger injectors then that for 800hp on methanol, unless you start your static pressure up around 80 psi, then you will need a monster fuel pump that can maintain good flow at pressures over 100psi
Richard
cdhoroho
Registered
ya i do agree but i was thinking in the 700+ hp range
and i do believe the id2200 will handle the pressure i know my id1000 will handle 125+
i know its not cheep to build
and yes i run a standalone and have seen the ignition (not with mine but others) loose their power at 30+ psi and thats on smaller turbos
i dont know what chris runs in his i do know its one heck of a strong setup
2wicked
Registered
Yes the injectors will handle the high fuel pressure, but the fuel pump will have trouble. As pressure increases, flow volume drops, most pumps will be fine on gasoline, but even 700hp on alcohol will require a large high flow pump, and pumps that size max out at around 80 psi,
Richard
Richard
cdhoroho
Registered
what pump would be in your mind for this?
I do know what you mean
my 700hp EFI aeromotive pump is done in the low 500 hp range
i am debating on selling it and getting a weldon for my prostreet/ then streamliner?? but unsure if there is a pump worth a darn for 600+ hp and good for methanol (streamliner will run methanol)
Does anyone make a drive setup for a Waterman pump?
