United Auto Workers Lash Out at GOP Senators Over Bailout Collapse

[Mr Bogus]

they should have given we the people 18 billion in car and truck discounts and we all would be driving more American cars and trucks and then auto makers would have work producing those said auto;s and we would all be happy to be able to afford something non of us have been able to in years if ever....I know I would love a chevy or dodge truck for about 7 g new...lol

The "bailout" is not a "handout" (however I seriously doubt the loan will be paid back)

So discounts would not work the same.. The problem is that you have the liberals telling the automakers what and how to build vehicles in the states..

California (arguably the most liberal state) now is telling Detroit to build a car that is not they can not sell.. The left coast "hug babies" are really eager to tell the world how to stay green, how to prosper and how to stretch the environment while at the same time going broke at a rate higher than any place else.. Their logic although idealistic and very "earthy" just does not work when competing against other companies that do not play by the same rules... The liberal view point is not going to change and they will drive us into the ground with this line of thinking..

Just the way it goes I guess...

 

[Lamb busa]

California politics suck. If everywhere in the world played by Californias rules, noone would make a profit, or have car insurance, or be legally here, or have to worry about paying the bill for 8 babies, cause someone will do it for us...............(gulp)we hope. It's pathetic, and sad.

 

[TruWrecks]

So, thinking of this like a boat and crew:

The captain is responsible for everything that happens on their ship.
The crew is responsible for duties that the captain assigns, or delegates.
The Union is responsible for representing the crew to the captain and officers.

There is a leak in the boat and the captain is aware of it but doesn't issue orders to correct it. The crew notices the leak and refuses to bail water unless they are paid more in salary or benefits. The Union sees the leak and demands bigger bonuses from the captain before they'll negotiate with the crew to fix the leak. The captain denies that a leak has occurred, and continues to work on his tan. The Union argues with the captain while the boat sinks further.

As I see it, they are all responsible for the boat sinking.

 

[suzuki4life]

So, thinking of this like a boat and crew:

The captain is responsible for everything that happens on their ship.
The crew is responsible for duties that the captain assigns, or delegates.
The Union is responsible for representing the crew to the captain and officers.

There is a leak in the boat and the captain is aware of it but doesn't issue orders to correct it. The crew notices the leak and refuses to bail water unless they are paid more in salary or benefits. The Union sees the leak and demands bigger bonuses from the captain before they'll negotiate with the crew to fix the leak. The captain denies that a leak has occurred, and continues to work on his tan. The Union argues with the captain while the boat sinks further.

As I see it, they are all responsible for the boat sinking.

so, if your company is losing money (which many are now days). You went to your boss and volunteered to work for free and still pay for your benefits right?

This little scenario is a bad one. For the "crew" to fix the problem, they would've had to know it existed and how to fix it. Management would had needed to express these concerns in advance and made plans to achieve the fix. The crew can't row the boat and fix the problem. The captain needed to direct which was priority.

Unless they can prove that the people weren't doing their jobs as trained or they were stealing from the company and that theft directly caused this situation. Management has been the only party with the ability, luxury and responsibility to make these calls. To blame employees for doing what they are paid, directed and trained to do is absurd.

 

[Mr Bogus]

so, if your company is losing money (which many are now days). You went to your boss and volunteered to work for free and still pay for your benefits right?

This little scenario is a bad one. For the "crew" to fix the problem, they would've had to know it existed and how to fix it. Management would had needed to express these concerns in advance and made plans to achieve the fix. The crew can't row the boat and fix the problem. The captain needed to direct which was priority.

Unless they can prove that the people weren't doing their jobs as trained or they were stealing from the company and that theft directly caused this situation. Management has been the only party with the ability, luxury and responsibility to make these calls. To blame employees for doing what they are paid, directed and trained to do is absurd.

I suppose that there is a way to explain the "Strikes" the autoworkers have pulled over the years and that the shutdowns had absolutely nothing to do with the situation..

So tell me just how thick is the margin on cars if you have a company paying benefits to more people retired than working? A company that pays 200% or more above and beyond actual wages in taxes and benefits? What is the margin on any good business? how many can afford to stop production for 30 days or more (not to mention the trickle down effect to outside vendors) Yea going on strike is really a smart move if you want to make more money... (where is the gun to head emoticon?)

What effect does a 2-8 week strike have on the bottom line of said company? You know the biggest giggles I have had in the last few years? Entire work shifts going on strike because they did not get COL pay increases because a company claimed it just was not there.. 45 days into the strike the company folds up, closes its doors and they are gone.. I can name at least 5 of these outfits off the top of my head and there are lots more..

Nestle Chocolate
Delphi Electronics
Aeroquip
Mattel
International Harvester..
All were either sold or went off shore due to labor problems..

You know if I made $18+ an hour plus benefits for a job that did not require college, I would have probably stayed on the job and maybe got an education and try to make more money that way..

 

[suzuki4life]

# ▼ Where is the Nestlé USA Headquarters located?

* 800 North Brand Boulevard
Glendale, CA 91203
???


so name the last GM strike that caused its demise?


I personally believe that subpar quality has driven customers away from GM and lessened it customer base. Until recently GM has never had parts shortages that have experienced for the last three years....these shortages were not caused by strikes (which will be obvious when you answer the first question) Quality is MANAGEMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO MONITOR.


and people can blame strikes all they want, union shops retain more employees normally than non union shops do. By lessening of the proverbial "rotating door" on employment they lessen down time of training and new hire status issues plus in theory that SHOULD improve quality (note employment retention is high at all of the big three but quality has been and issue for over a decade ???)


As for wages and benefits issues, if GM contracted to buy metal at 6 times the cost of other companies, you would say that is a stupid decision. During these so called numerous strikes and work stoppages, they could had easily replaced their work force as MANY other UAW companies have done (research ESAB Hanover PA if in doubt) if they were unhappy with the costs. GM NEVER made an effort.

A union has a right the strike just like you have the right to quit and go somewhere else if you feel unhappy. In reality, unions are probably bound to completing their contracts more than the average non union worker is.

If so many companies weren't corrupt, I would agree that unions aren't needed. The few unions in place keep non union plants scared and keep corruption at bay.

 

[racerV]

What about the Union BA that I occasionally have to hand a healthy check to made out in HIS name to keep my project moving forward and to keep him from ordering a Strike? The Unions had their place a long time ago...now they are mostly corrupt and use their muscle to extort businesses to do what they want. Jessie Jackson does the same thing in the name of minority equality. Please stop telling me how great the Union is, they are solely responsible for putting themselves out of the market by making businesses charge double for the same work.

 

[Mr Bogus]

# ▼ Where is the Nestlé USA Headquarters located?

* 800 North Brand Boulevard
Glendale, CA 91203
???


so name the last GM strike that caused its demise?


I personally believe that subpar quality has driven customers away from GM and lessened it customer base. Until recently GM has never had parts shortages that have experienced for the last three years....these shortages were not caused by strikes (which will be obvious when you answer the first question) Quality is MANAGEMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO MONITOR.


and people can blame strikes all they want, union shops retain more employees normally than non union shops do. By lessening of the proverbial "rotating door" on employment they lessen down time of training and new hire status issues plus in theory that SHOULD improve quality (note employment retention is high at all of the big three but quality has been and issue for over a decade ???)


As for wages and benefits issues, if GM contracted to buy metal at 6 times the cost of other companies, you would say that is a stupid decision. During these so called numerous strikes and work stoppages, they could had easily replaced their work force as MANY other UAW companies have done (research ESAB Hanover PA if in doubt) if they were unhappy with the costs. GM NEVER made an effort.

A union has a right the strike just like you have the right to quit and go somewhere else if you feel unhappy. In reality, unions are probably bound to completing their contracts more than the average non union worker is.

If so many companies weren't corrupt, I would agree that unions aren't needed. The few unions in place keep non union plants scared and keep corruption at bay.

aww Fort Wayne had one of the largest Nestle plants in the country sir Einstein, but I would not expect you to know that... They went on strike and they closed the plant and moved it... (headquarters are not always the center of activity, many companies use NY/CA addresses and are actually many miles away with production..)

GM had a number of strikes that affected them over the last few years (Fort Wayne is home of one of the main pickup truck plants) strikes by the "OTHER" unions (trucking, assy line workers etc) cause serious issues and shut down production.. As I recall they lost about 4 weeks to these shutdowns..

Also in Sept of 2007 GM strikes closed plants for 57 days.. Now you may know a different set of economics and production rules than I do but it takes a couple weeks to get these things running again after people come back to work.. considering a margin of 7% is usually pretty good, I think 60+ days shutdown probably hurt the profits for a few years..

Unions got greedy on their own behalf and that of the workers.. workers pay dues, the union has this need to prove they are worth those dues.. such a waste..

 

[suzuki4life]

What about the Union BA that I occasionally have to hand a healthy check to made out in HIS name to keep my project moving forward and to keep him from ordering a Strike? The Unions had their place a long time ago...now they are mostly corrupt and use their muscle to extort businesses to do what they want. Jessie Jackson does the same thing in the name of minority equality. Please stop telling me how great the Union is, they are solely responsible for putting themselves out of the market by making businesses charge double for the same work.

ummmm.....okay. I am a union worker and we are very competitive. We own most of our market share to be specific but your generalized statement is probably right ???

 

[suzuki4life]

GM is hurting because of bad management period...

they don't manage their people, hence the wage issues
They don't manage their quality, hence their reputation
They don't manage their money hence bonuses in times of bankruptcy
They don't even manage their inventory (many 04's, 05's++++ still in their new car inventory )

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to fund a bail out...but point the finger where it belongs.

 

[Mr Bogus]

yea could not possibly be line workers doing shoddy work...

I was a heavy line tech for GM and most of the issues we saw could have been easily rectified by a line worker that had given a hoot about the car.. instead is is "oh well, they will fix it under warranty"..

With the exception of the 5.7 olds diesel... GM has not had a lot of quality issues over all.. factory guys just slap crap together and could care less about how it works.. yea that is managements fault..

excess inventory.. so shut the line down for a week or 2 without pay... use up that stuff... Ooops forgot the union guys will scream they need paid for overproducing in the first place and paid to take the time off to let inventory balance out...

Union crybabies... I love right to work states...

 

[suzuki4life]

yea could not possibly be line workers doing shoddy work...

I was a heavy line tech for GM and most of the issues we saw could have been easily rectified by a line worker that had given a hoot about the car.. instead is is "oh well, they will fix it under warranty"..

With the exception of the 5.7 olds diesel... GM has not had a lot of quality issues over all.. factory guys just slap crap together and could care less about how it works.. yea that is managements fault..

excess inventory.. so shut the line down for a week or 2 without pay... use up that stuff... Ooops forgot the union guys will scream they need paid for overproducing in the first place and paid to take the time off to let inventory balance out...

Union crybabies... I love right to work states...

if quality is not upheld...where is the quality supervisor making sure their quality inspectors are inspecting?(management's fault)

I can't believe that the UAW guys get away with so much or why bother showing up at all?

if management signed a contract agreeing to pay them if they were not at work..that is management's fault.

Maybe the people asking for mortgage bail out aren't at fault also since they shouldn't be responsible for what they signed either?

 

[racerV]

ummmm.....okay. I am a union worker and we are very competitive. We own most of our market share to be specific but your generalized statement is probably right ???

You probably do own most of your market share but it looks to me like you turn a blind eye to the things that your organizers and business agents do to put you in that position. Ignorance must be bliss

 

[dreamin_of_ridin]

The union workers are as bad as the management. When are either one of you going to stop blaming each other and work together for a solution that will save all of you your jobs. Making a little less in benefits is much better than job hunting for both the workers and management.

ummmm.....okay. I am a union worker and we are very competitive. We own most of our market share to be specific but your generalized statement is probably right ???

 

[racerV]

Let's take this even further. How many times have you been the one sitting in the break room playing cards, drinking coffee, and smoking cigarettes getting paid double time just to show up for work? This is one of the main contributing factors to the demise of the big 3. Don't tell me it doesn't happen because I know people that do it. Furthermore, Management can't do anything about it because of what the mafia...I mean Union will do to them. You brought up that it is Managements fault that the quality sucks, isn't it the union worker that produced the product? Shouldn't he or she be responsible for the quality of that product? The Union mentality that I have experienced is take take take, don't ask me to do anything though!

 

[Mr Bogus]

Let's take this even further. How many times have you been the one sitting in the break room playing cards, drinking coffee, and smoking cigarettes getting paid double time just to show up for work? This is one of the main contributing factors to the demise of the big 3. Don't tell me it doesn't happen because I know people that do it. Furthermore, Management can't do anything about it because of what the mafia...I mean Union will do to them. You brought up that it is Managements fault that the quality sucks, isn't it the union worker that produced the product? Shouldn't he or she be responsible for the quality of that product? The Union mentality that I have experienced is take take take, don't ask me to do anything though!

to quote S4L... "managements fault for allowing it"

and then we go "fire them"
and union goes "you cant"
and Union Advocate goes "Its managements fault"

seems to be the recurring theme... if the workers are lazy it is not their fault.. if the company goes broke, it is not the workers fault.. If management can not fire dead beats.. it is their fault..

Union appears to = never the workers fault.. dang no wonder they are popular.. really is pretty funny, but then again I am gainfully employed..

 

[suzuki4life]

The union workers are as bad as the management. When are either one of you going to stop blaming each other and work together for a solution that will save all of you your jobs. Making a little less in benefits is much better than job hunting for both the workers and management.

workers do what they are told...

if management can't control their workforce,then they can't control their company

management is once again at fault.

 

[suzuki4life]

You probably do own most of your market share but it looks to me like you turn a blind eye to the things that your organizers and business agents do to put you in that position. Ignorance must be bliss

our management is doing their job.

When work load picks up and they need more hours worked, our employees step up, cover the hours and produce as needed...hence they do their job.

 

[suzuki4life]

Let's take this even further. How many times have you been the one sitting in the break room playing cards, drinking coffee, and smoking cigarettes getting paid double time just to show up for work? This is one of the main contributing factors to the demise of the big 3. Don't tell me it doesn't happen because I know people that do it. Furthermore, Management can't do anything about it because of what the mafia...I mean Union will do to them. You brought up that it is Managements fault that the quality sucks, isn't it the union worker that produced the product? Shouldn't he or she be responsible for the quality of that product? The Union mentality that I have experienced is take take take, don't ask me to do anything though!

a person mounting a wheel is not supposed to care if the wheel is good or not. They bring ANY non conforming issues to management's attention...if management says that all is well...that is what the employee is to do. Consultants are there to question....employees are there to do as there are instructed and trained to do.

 

[suzuki4life]

to quote S4L... "managements fault for allowing it"

and then we go "fire them"
and union goes "you cant"
and Union Advocate goes "Its managements fault"

seems to be the recurring theme... if the workers are lazy it is not their fault.. if the company goes broke, it is not the workers fault.. If management can not fire dead beats.. it is their fault..

Union appears to = never the workers fault.. dang no wonder they are popular.. really is pretty funny, but then again I am gainfully employed..

why would I believe that management can't fire an employee when they didn't even bother to try to save their own company by asking for concessions in 2007?

Management doesn't care to fire them....they turn the blind eye and let society eat the consequences.

This is the same as the parents of the screaming kids at the store...always excuses about how they can't discipline their kids. Strange, MY kids don't act like that...they know better. People I work with don't act as described....they also know better.