UPDATE: Busa Bash crash victims...
- Thread starter Over_Easy
- Start date
OK racerV if hate'n on DO3 makes you feel better....DO3 you no good rotten bastid. You should not have done that!
Did that help? We all feel for you to racerV cuz you were almost involved. Do you feel better now? Many of us weren't even in the state and just want to wish everyone well and a speedy recovery. So its not about 'poor DO3'. I'm sure many members of this board are complete tools but I don't want to login and read about any of you getting hurt.
I would love to donate to his "getting" home fund.Maybe the Admins or Mods could set up a method for us to contribute $$ to Jimmy, I would definitely be in
Rayabusa0818
Never Forgotten
I have given a lot of thought about how to respond to this. My original question was definitely not intended to criticize or upset anyone. My thoughts were around what good can result from a tragic situation like this accident. First is that everyone recovers. Luckily here that will be the case, although It is going to be a long road back for Jimmy and he may never be 100%. The second, and the point of my question, is what can we learn from the situation. I have been riding for 44 years and have been extremely lucky that I have never been in a hard crash. Although, a lot of this is attributed to luck, I think it may also be to to learning from incidents and mistakes. Believe me, I have made many many mistakes during all these years and will continue as long as I ride. On the other hand I have always tried to learn from whatever situation I can. Yes, Scott, I have ridden heel to toe on lots of occasions as issustrated here
Like you said we are trusting the other riders to do the right thing. However, I have bailed out of rides in a very short time because I was uncomfortable with the actions of the other riders. It has been said hundreds of times and as many ways, but everyone needs to ride within their own comfort level and abilities.
There are two things I generally tell others that ride with me. (1) If I am holding you up go around, I don't mind at all when someone passes me. (2) If I am riding faster than you like, don't try to keep up...I will wait for you at the next intersection of stopping point.
Once, again my point is not to upset or criticize anyone, but to inspire thinking on what can be learned from the accident that may help avoid a similar situation if it occurs again.
I apologize to anyone that may have interpreted my original question any other way.
Thanks for bearing with me through this long disertation.
John, I have been pissed about this whole thing as well because to a degree I believe it's likely it could have been avoided and I have managed to bite my tongue, FOR NOW, because in regards to the whole situation, Jimmy's health comes first.
No one wants to play the blame game but you can't tell me Robert's decision to ride the way he did was not to blame. Now I'm seeing that DO3 didn't get a fricking ticket and Jimmy did?!!! Is this true? If so that is EFFIN BS!
And why are people wishing for a speedy recovery of all "three." Robert didn't get hurt in the accident. Not that I wish he did, but I know if I were in his shoes I wish it would have been me instead of any others.
I spoke with Jimmy's wife today and she will be coming over tomorrow evening to get Jimmy's things. Jimmy's mother is w/ him in the hospital making arrangements to get him back. Jimmy is under some heavy pain medication, had some hallucinations the past couple nights, ran a fever and he will be having another blood transfusion. I hope to speak with him and/or his mom later today.
I've been waiting for this to come to the surface, as we all have our opinions based on what some saw, what some heard, what we think went wrong...
I'm never one for censoring opinions, so that's not what I'm in here for, but I do ask that we respect a few things here as we continue debating this subject: 1) be respectful of everyone involved, no matter how you might feel about what happened. We're all brothers and sisters here and we've be so fortunate to perpetuate friendships both on and off of the oRg. 2) I really want things to unfold as those involved would have it unfold, whether that includes lawyers or not, whether there's conflict or not, it's not up to any of us to decide. None of us here serve in that capacity to help with everything that's gone wrong unless asked as a witness. There are friends on both sides of this accident and I don't want anything to cause a rift amongst members.
Again, not censoring what's being said, just be respectful and aware of the fact that this affected members here and the families of these individuals, there's plenty of guilt spread throughout, even for those of us that didn't witness what happened.
Respect, that's all I ask right now...let's allow these members to work through the issues at hand...
Right now, I just want those injured to be OK; they've got a long road ahead of them and I know we all feel the same when we say we need them to heal and get past the events of what happened several days ago...
Thanks everyone...
I'm never one for censoring opinions, so that's not what I'm in here for, but I do ask that we respect a few things here as we continue debating this subject: 1) be respectful of everyone involved, no matter how you might feel about what happened. We're all brothers and sisters here and we've be so fortunate to perpetuate friendships both on and off of the oRg. 2) I really want things to unfold as those involved would have it unfold, whether that includes lawyers or not, whether there's conflict or not, it's not up to any of us to decide. None of us here serve in that capacity to help with everything that's gone wrong unless asked as a witness. There are friends on both sides of this accident and I don't want anything to cause a rift amongst members.
Again, not censoring what's being said, just be respectful and aware of the fact that this affected members here and the families of these individuals, there's plenty of guilt spread throughout, even for those of us that didn't witness what happened.
Respect, that's all I ask right now...let's allow these members to work through the issues at hand...
Right now, I just want those injured to be OK; they've got a long road ahead of them and I know we all feel the same when we say we need them to heal and get past the events of what happened several days ago...
Thanks everyone...
I always appreciate constructive criticism which this is not. I hope you never have to witness something like this knowing what actually happened and watch the details get swept under the carpet. I also do not recall asking for any sympathy which is also what you are implying from 2200+ miles away. I do not hate DO3 and do not wish him harm, he needs to be responsible for his own actions.
Thank god I didnt go on this ride, and some of you know why...Im glad I trusted my instincts. Last year I was right behind Pappy and watched him crash and pin himself under the guardrail, then the very next night watched Shawn go down. I'm staying away from the big group rides for a while. RacerV....I feel ya.
mrninja9
Banned
john, I alas was not there to witness it. Me and you talked i could tell how distraught you where. I hope there is a speedy recovery among every one else here. My 2 cents is yes there where mistakes made. we all made them your telling me that someone didnt make a mistake this week. Tey just happened to be the one caused by fate.
I crossed yellows on the dragon i could have went head on kuckily it didnt happen. I understand that DO3 put others in his way of destruction but your right in my opinion he should have got ticketed but you cant resolve the issue at hand here.
The recovery needs to be looked at in more than a blame game. We can talk about this for years to come and it isn't helping jimmy's recovery.
John i have seen bad wreck people dieing in front of me an R6 toppling 10 feet over me and the guy worked in my shop in new mexico. There where others to blame but all in all it got us no where. it hasnt stop us from riding. THe images are still in my head as in yours and it hurts to see that. You have to use that as a reminder to realize your faults as a rider to prevent the future
ok i am done
I crossed yellows on the dragon i could have went head on kuckily it didnt happen. I understand that DO3 put others in his way of destruction but your right in my opinion he should have got ticketed but you cant resolve the issue at hand here.
The recovery needs to be looked at in more than a blame game. We can talk about this for years to come and it isn't helping jimmy's recovery.
John i have seen bad wreck people dieing in front of me an R6 toppling 10 feet over me and the guy worked in my shop in new mexico. There where others to blame but all in all it got us no where. it hasnt stop us from riding. THe images are still in my head as in yours and it hurts to see that. You have to use that as a reminder to realize your faults as a rider to prevent the future
ok i am done
MN9,
I only had the chance to meet you briefly at the Bash and you seemed to be a good guy, but from your statement here I don't see how you have a rational basis for your argument.
Now I MAY have exceeded the speed limit here and there, come close to the yellow line (I treat it like the edge of the road) or passed a 25 mph truck on a double yellow with gobs of clear pavement and no intersections ahead but they were very calculated and thought upon before acting, so "NO", sorry, I never made mistakes such as "crossing yellow lines on the Dragon" or put myself in a situation like that from riding too aggressive which you openly admit. If I had I would admit it, but I make a point not to ride like that as not to put others in danger. And I never made the mistake of riding in a group to the point where I was out of control. If I'm going to be pushing like that to better myself I do it alone and in a desolate area.
Since you stated that you "understand that DO3 put others in his way of destruction" you are just as guilty of making the poor decision he made in riding reckelessly over yellow lines on the Dragon. And if you were the other guy coming at me across the yellow line on the Dragon and we/I wrecked you would be to blame and I would hold you accountable for doing so. I just can't believe I'm seeing comments like, "that's part of riding" and "**** happens" as if God himself willed it to happen.
I just hope this allows people to review how they ride and under what circumstances.
Just so everyone knows and doesn't misconstrue this post Jimmy was being completely facetious, as evidenced by the two laughing smilies in the post-->
The fact he mentioned leading a spirited ride and never being to the Gap was the joke unto itself.
Rant time is over.....
Lets get back to wishing them well and praying that they recover fully and raising some money so Jimmy can get back home with his loved ones!
Lets get back to wishing them well and praying that they recover fully and raising some money so Jimmy can get back home with his loved ones!
Yes, I am definitely wishing all THREE a speedy recovery.
What can be learned form this? I am not assigning blame, just pointing out what could be learned from it.
Don't ride within your limits on the street, ride within 90% of your limits. Leave yourself some extra just in case.
Don't ride as a passenger in a spirited ride unless you completely know and trust the rider.
Don't follow to close to the rider in front of you. You should always be able to stop before impacting the rider ahead.
Understand that motorcycling is risky. Group rides are even more risky. If you choose to participate, accept the fact that another rider may take you out.
These are not meant to blame anyone. These are meant to warn anyone who may ride in a group. If you know this and choose to ride in a group anyway, then don't try and place blame or responsibility on others. Just simply wish for the best in any injuries that may occur.
What can be learned form this? I am not assigning blame, just pointing out what could be learned from it.
Don't ride within your limits on the street, ride within 90% of your limits. Leave yourself some extra just in case.
Don't ride as a passenger in a spirited ride unless you completely know and trust the rider.
Don't follow to close to the rider in front of you. You should always be able to stop before impacting the rider ahead.
Understand that motorcycling is risky. Group rides are even more risky. If you choose to participate, accept the fact that another rider may take you out.
These are not meant to blame anyone. These are meant to warn anyone who may ride in a group. If you know this and choose to ride in a group anyway, then don't try and place blame or responsibility on others. Just simply wish for the best in any injuries that may occur.
mrninja9
Banned
let me rephrase this no i had clear roads and yes i rode with groups and knew my limits i was only over breif seconds
yeah good guy who using good judgement on riding abilities i dont like to corner but i never once said i coulnt
i think there that was some showing off that was done and a poor judgement on some parts and i can say that i make mistakes just like everyone else out here
well put.
I have been a manager in a transportation oriented business for over 1/4 of my life and have sat through more driver training / accident avoidance seminars than any one human should ever have to endure and from all these years of managing claims, training our drivers and photographing accident scenes and hoping our teams learn from each one.... two things jump out at me here.
1) Zukracer makes a very solid point about the litigation that may be pending in this matter. Exercise descretion on this forum about accident scene related material and specific medical conditions of those involved - believe me, if your opionions are needed they will be solicited.
As a great military man once told us 'one should never pass up the opportunity to keep ones mouth closed'.
2) Don (Raybusa) is spot on. What can all the members of the .org learn from this incident?
Here is what you NEED to learn from it if nothing else, especially if you are ever 'leading' a group ride:
* Speed limits are not suggestions.
* Following distance behind the vehicle in front of you is 3 seconds (pay no attention to feet / car lengths) in good conditions, longer in inclement weather.
I dont know what exactly happened on the Skyway that day but my guess is that both of those basic tenets of safe vehicle operation were probably needed.
One of those involved in this incident is a friend of mine and has 'broke bread' with my family in our home and I do feel the pain of all those involved. One thing we can do for them is that everyone on this board learn from what we know about this incident and make next year's Bash, or any other ride we are in, safer.
1) Zukracer makes a very solid point about the litigation that may be pending in this matter. Exercise descretion on this forum about accident scene related material and specific medical conditions of those involved - believe me, if your opionions are needed they will be solicited.
As a great military man once told us 'one should never pass up the opportunity to keep ones mouth closed'.
2) Don (Raybusa) is spot on. What can all the members of the .org learn from this incident?
Here is what you NEED to learn from it if nothing else, especially if you are ever 'leading' a group ride:
* Speed limits are not suggestions.
* Following distance behind the vehicle in front of you is 3 seconds (pay no attention to feet / car lengths) in good conditions, longer in inclement weather.
I dont know what exactly happened on the Skyway that day but my guess is that both of those basic tenets of safe vehicle operation were probably needed.
One of those involved in this incident is a friend of mine and has 'broke bread' with my family in our home and I do feel the pain of all those involved. One thing we can do for them is that everyone on this board learn from what we know about this incident and make next year's Bash, or any other ride we are in, safer.
Rayabusa0818
Never Forgotten
You bet
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