What's really going on.

[Oz22]

No, they are all bent, ALL of them. But most are in debt up to their eyeballs, the flash cars leased. I read about the Spanish property bubble years ago, they went from 50,000 used home salespeople to about a 1000 overnight.

 

[Red05]

And then what, go live in a pup tent? Everyone needs a home just like they need food, the price rises are irrelevant unless you are moving to another region where the homes are a lot cheaper. Higher home prices are only really good for the beneficiaries of your will. It's the government, the banks, insurance companies and real estate brokers who benefit from high home prices.

There’s more to it. A house is a home, which is priceless, but the equity one builds in it also gives a person stability and options later in life. I don’t think there’s a better investment than real estate. What better investment than a small piece of the world? I bought my home and a later a smaller house that I rent. Yeah it’s a job, like a business, you keep the tenant happy and they stay. Let the brokers and insurance agents make their living, and we do our thing as best we can. I see the upside way more clearly than the down.

 

[Zerks]

I don't know about a money pit, we could sell our home tomorrow for more than twice what we bought it for and it would sell very quick as I live in a sought after neighborhood and other homes most times don't even get a for sale sign up before they are sold....

As for the size of a home.....some people I know are talking downsizing but then I ask them what about their kids and grandkids when they visit? Our home gets pretty small pretty quickly when the brood comes over....

Everybody's situation is different. I could have sold the house I bought in 1998 for 100k for 350k in 2005. I could have sold the house I bought in 2003 for 328k for 449k or more in 2005. In fact, that is what I wanted to do. The other half would not do it.

What you never mentioned is the upkeep, taxes and insurance.

Granted, we all need a place to live so now it's simply a matter of how we go about it and what we choose to do that is affordable. Housing options in this "unaffordable" high interest time period are now making their way to market such as Boxable and other mass produced in a factory homes that are portable. These are not trailer homes even though they are moved on highways without expensive permitting and specialized trucks used for normal sized trailer home like 12 x 60 and bigger. These new entries into the home building market offer a way to solve the high cost of home ownership as compared to the stick frame homes most people go into long term debt for.

New home builders are now offering the option to get a guaranteed contract where anytime a new homeowner buys a new builders home like Lennar, KB Home and others builders that the buyer can refinance anytime the prime interest rate drops enough to make refinancing a loan a money saving move in terms of the house payment. This way... if the prime rate gets back to where it was just a few short years ago people can refi at that rate.

Not saying this is for everyone. However, the option to move is always a real possibility.

I toured this place last February.

 

[Zerks]

There’s more to it. A house is a home, which is priceless, but the equity one builds in it also gives a person stability and options later in life. I don’t think there’s a better investment than real estate. What better investment than a small piece of the world? I bought my home and a later a smaller house that I rent. Yeah it’s a job, like a business, you keep the tenant happy and they stay. Let the brokers and insurance agents make their living, and we do our thing as best we can. I see the upside way more clearly than the down.

Watch the Micheal Saylor Bitcoin conference presentation and tell us how Bitcoin compares to real estate.

 

[Bumblebee]

Everybody's situation is different. I could have sold the house I bought in 1998 for 100k for 350k in 2005. I could have sold the house I bought in 2003 for 328k for 449k or more in 2005. In fact, that is what I wanted to do. The other half would not do it.

What you never mentioned is the upkeep, taxes and insurance.

Granted, we all need a place to live so now it's simply a matter of how we go about it and what we choose to do that is affordable. Housing options in this "unaffordable" high interest time period are now making their way to market such as Boxable and other mass produced in a factory homes that are portable. These are not trailer homes even though they are moved on highways without expensive permitting and specialized trucks used for normal sized trailer home like 12 x 60 and bigger. These new entries into the home building market offer a way to solve the high cost of home ownership as compared to the stick frame homes most people go into loan term debt for.

New home builders are now offering the option to get a guaranteed contract where anytime a new homeowner buys a new builders home like Lennar, KB Home and others builders that the buyer can refinance anytime the prime interest rate drops enough to make refinancing a loan a money saving move in terms of the house payment. This way... if the prime rate gets back to where it was just a few short years ago people can refi at that rate.

Not saying this is for everyone. However, the option to move is always a real possibility.

I toured this place last February.

I'd live in that....

While out on a ride in the back country last week I happened upon a small model home in a beautiful setting with a large garage/shop in the back yard....in reality I'd love to live in something like that until my kids and grandkids show up....

 

[Zerks]

I'd live in that....

While out on a ride in the back country last week I happened upon a small model home in a beautiful setting with a large garage/shop in the back yard....in reality I'd love to live in something like that until my kids and grandkids show up....

If you have the space to park a travel trailer or 5th wheel on the property then you have a place for more people when they show up. Many considerations will exist like heating, cooling, electrical and so on. it simply depends on the location, the room available and what your preferences are.

 

[Bumblebee]

If you have the space to park a travel trailer or 5th wheel on the property then you have a place for more people when they show up. Many considerations will exist like heating, cooling, electrical and so on. it simply depends on the location, the room available and what your preferences are.

That's what my brother does, he has a travel trailer for guests...but also has a huge home....

 

[Red05]

Watch the Micheal Saylor Bitcoin conference presentation and tell us how Bitcoin compares to real estate.

Bitcoin, Microsoft, Amazon…yes get in early and you’re gold. Try trading those now. Chances are good but that’s just it. Chance. Real estate is defined by its name. REAL. It’s a piece of earth, a finite resource of immeasurable value.

 

[MonkeyButtRides]

And then what, go live in a pup tent? Everyone needs a home just like they need food, the price rises are irrelevant unless you are moving to another region where the homes are a lot cheaper. Higher home prices are only really good for the beneficiaries of your will. It's the government, the banks, insurance companies and real estate brokers who benefit from high home prices.

You are not seeing the opportunity in front of you. You can use the equity to purchase another home. You will probably say something like "then what I can only live in one home at a time..." then you rent it and let someone else pay off your 2nd mortgage, then you use the tax exemptions for rental properties and home improvement projects to further increase your net worth. Stop hating on everything and start looking for the opportunities right in front of you..

 

[Bumblebee]

You are not seeing the opportunity in front of you. You can use the equity to purchase another home. You will probably say something like "then what I can only live in one home at a time..." then you rent it and let someone else pay off your 2nd mortgage, then you use the tax exemptions for rental properties and home improvement projects to further increase your net worth. Stop hating on everything and start looking for the opportunities right in front of you..

Years ago I knew a person who bought a piece of property (50 acres) in his home town that at the time was deemed worthless....

Low and behold over time the city limits overtook the area that his property stood on and made it worth a small fortune. I think he bought it for under $30k and sold it for well over a million........all within 40 yrs.

Real estate especially vacant property to me is one of the best investments.....vacant property doesn't need any upkeep and as there generally are no structures on it, the property taxes are low.

 

[michael parris heuberger]

Years ago I knew a person who bought a piece of property (50 acres) in his home town that at the time was deemed worthless....

Low and behold over time the city limits overtook the area that his property stood on and made it worth a small fortune. I think he bought it for under $30k and sold it for well over a million........all within 40 yrs.

Real estate especially vacant property to me is one of the best investments.....vacant property doesn't need any upkeep and as there generally are no structures on it, the property taxes are low.

Hi. My daughter this year bought 6 house lots and is building houses. She haa sold one that is not even built yet for $750,000. She jas 3 set floor plans. She also offers set up grades for more. So they can get a custom build home if they want for more money.

 

[MonkeyButtRides]

Years ago I knew a person who bought a piece of property

I about 25 years ago I bought my first home. It was a town house in VA. I want to say we mortgaged it for around 130k at the time. 2 Years later we moved to Arizona, we rented it for a bit but I was young, stupid and scared so we sold it. Today it's worth half a million and I would have easily paid it off by now, missed opportunities....

 

[Red05]

I about 25 years ago I bought my first home. It was a town house in VA. I want to say we mortgaged it for around 130k at the time. 2 Years later we moved to Arizona, we rented it for a bit but I was young, stupid and scared so we sold it. Today it's worth half a million and I would have easily paid it off by now, missed opportunities....

My rental is tiny, about 900 sq feet. It’s paid off though so the rental income is a nice addition to my social security.

 

[Zerks]

Bitcoin, Microsoft, Amazon…yes get in early and you’re gold. Try trading those now. Chances are good but that’s just it. Chance. Real estate is defined by its name. REAL. It’s a piece of earth, a finite resource of immeasurable value.

Not every person or business makes a fortune in real estate. Many have lost money in real estate. If you think doubling your money is a good thing to have happen you can watch the opportunity in the digital crypto money space to keep passing you by. It's not going away as regulations insure that the stability needed in the digital industry grows. Fiat currency is threatened by crypto currency... that is why some governments were dead set against it. You can't fund wars with Bitcoin... the events that are coming will speak for themselves.

 

[Oz22]

You are not seeing the opportunity in front of you. You can use the equity to purchase another home. You will probably say something like "then what I can only live in one home at a time..."

No I would probably say something like "And what happens if you're timing is wrong, and the interest rates go up beyond what the rental receipts are, and the managements costs, and the maintenance costs. I have seen people wiped out by that. 40 and 50 years ago owning a couple of rentals was a sure bet but not easy to attain due to bank practices, today they are easy to get but the risks have risen immeasurably.

I have watched people lose them, and their PPOR, seen others struggle along on interest only mortgages for 10 years then be forced to sell at the old price basically because the market hadn't risen hardly but the mortgage reset to principle and interest. This is in Australia of course, there is no throwing the key on the table and walking from a bad situation here. All rentals are cross-collateralized with the family home, so your home is at risk. Then own 3 or more where the total value exceeds the Federal land tax threshold and you get stung with a massive increase in carrying costs that wipes out all your income and puts you in debt. So you have to sell one, pronto, and pay the capital gains tax which is not insignificant.

This is not your Father's market. It's a very dangerous one, and even if you do make it to the end there are tax pitfalls. Today there are the old legacy landlords and a new batch of yungins that weren't burnt by the GFC and all that, covid and all that. Property investment advocates will often talk of the benefits but rarely the downsides. One unspoken downside is that as a home ages it's rental value is diminished. In 30 years it's the old old house that gets rented to the poorer classes. Unless you spend a hundred thousand and more on upgrades of course. And what will city property prices be in 20 or 30 years? Did you know that from 1925 till 1960 property prices across the western world fell continually? They had negative growth for 25 years. Nothing says that or something worse can't happen again. I couldn't in 1970, but today?

 

[Red05]

No I would probably say something like "And what happens if you're timing is wrong, and the interest rates go up beyond what the rental receipts are, and the managements costs, and the maintenance costs. I have seen people wiped out by that.

No one in their right mind takes an ARM (adjustable interest rate) loan on a rental unless the plan is to sell it in 5 years.

One unspoken downside is that as a home ages it's rental value is diminished.

That is ridiculous. Rental prices go up way faster than any effect of age on a house has.

And what will city property prices be in 20 or 30 years?

In the United States and I'm sure other countries as well, real estate property taxes, if that's what you're referring to, can be frozen once a person is 62. Until that point, the increases are determined and covered by the monthly rent amount. I've been a landlord for 25 years and you're here trying to teach me about it. Considering the source, I'm not surprised.

 

[Oz22]

Lastly there is something I call the "landlord mentality" I have known several landlords, a sibling was a landlord, and something changes for them. They get very scrooge-like, very negative towards tenants. They get "Hardened" to life and society in a sense. They are ok as friends but there is always this undercurrent of accounting going on, and they are not beyond using a friend to better themselves. Twice I have had friends offer to sell me one of their properties they were trying to offload, once many years ago one friend wanted me to get me to rent one of theirs. I demurred because I knew it would complicate the friendship. Sure enough a year later they chose to move back into that one and upgrade it. I would have been booted! And typically they won't spend money on themselves. They'll own 3 properties but drive a crappy car, ride cheap motorcycles. It always appeared to me that they were bean counting in all their affairs not just with the rental properties. I wouldn't be a landlord for this reason alone! I don't want to be a slave to money. I made my money and it's safely invested now, I don't think about it or talk endlessly about it, I just spend it.

 

[Red05]

I wouldn't be a landlord for this reason alone! I don't want to be a slave to money. I made my money and it's safely invested now, I don't think about it or talk endlessly about it, I just spend it.

I’ve collected in rent roughly 3 times the amount I paid for my rental originally, and with the equity I have because increased real estate values I can triple my profits by selling now, which I’m not considering. Why sell a cash cow?
Slave to money? LOL!
I’m a slave to my cat maybe

 

[MonkeyButtRides]

No I would probably say something like "And what happens if you're timing is wrong, and the interest rates go up beyond what the rental receipts are, and the managements costs, and the maintenance costs. I have seen people wiped out by that. 40 and 50 years ago owning a couple of rentals was a sure bet but not easy to attain due to bank practices, today they are easy to get but the risks have risen immeasurably.

I have watched people lose them, and their PPOR, seen others struggle along on interest only mortgages for 10 years then be forced to sell at the old price basically because the market hadn't risen hardly but the mortgage reset to principle and interest. This is in Australia of course, there is no throwing the key on the table and walking from a bad situation here. All rentals are cross-collateralized with the family home, so your home is at risk. Then own 3 or more where the total value exceeds the Federal land tax threshold and you get stung with a massive increase in carrying costs that wipes out all your income and puts you in debt. So you have to sell one, pronto, and pay the capital gains tax which is not insignificant.

This is not your Father's market. It's a very dangerous one, and even if you do make it to the end there are tax pitfalls. Today there are the old legacy landlords and a new batch of yungins that weren't burnt by the GFC and all that, covid and all that. Property investment advocates will often talk of the benefits but rarely the downsides. One unspoken downside is that as a home ages it's rental value is diminished. In 30 years it's the old old house that gets rented to the poorer classes. Unless you spend a hundred thousand and more on upgrades of course. And what will city property prices be in 20 or 30 years? Did you know that from 1925 till 1960 property prices across the western world fell continually? They had negative growth for 25 years. Nothing says that or something worse can't happen again. I couldn't in 1970, but today?

Well, if I want to know all the pitfalls of any venture, I'm about to embark on I know who to ask.....

 

[Oz22]

I’ve collected in rent roughly 3 times the amount I paid for my rental originally, and with the equity I have because increased real estate values I can triple my profits

Like I said above, it worked in the old days, how long ago did you buy?

No one in their right mind takes an ARM (adjustable interest rate) loan on a rental unless the plan is to sell it in 5 years.

That is ridiculous. Rental prices go up way faster than any effect of age on a house has.

In the United States and I'm sure other countries as well, real estate property taxes, if that's what you're referring to, can be frozen once a person is 62. Until that point, the increases are determined and covered by the monthly rent amount. I've been a landlord for 25 years and you're here trying to teach me about it. Considering the source, I'm not surprised.

In Australia ARM's or IO as we call them were the only way people could negatively gear their properties, a conventional mortgage would never be covered by rent alone. Not anymore. A lot of people even bought their own home on interest only loans back in the late 2000's. Banking on home prices doubling every 10 years, which they didn't, and their wages doubling too, which they didn't.

Yes rental prices go up, but go compare the rental on your property to a similar sized one that is brand new will all the modern fittings. There will be a huge disparity, that was what I was referring to. Hoping to live off the income of one or even two old homes would be tough down here. As for US tax laws, well they are different to ours as is your SS. Here you don't pay into SS all your life like you do, it's just given to you if you qualify. Old age pension here is $1100 a fortnight, but if you own rental properties you won't qualify, hence you're living off the rental of a couple of homes after expenses if that's all you have laid up. I think you guys get $1000 a month, less if you draw on it under 70 years of age, so you need that house to rent.