Woolich autotune Gen 3.

[GSXRme]

This is how I mounted everything. Everything is mounted with the double-sided velcro sold at home Depot so it's easy to remove if I need to plug in a USB cable or do something.

 

[GSXRme]

And the last thing... Auto tune doesn't auto apply the corrected fuel map. I recommend driving her around for a good week. When she's warming up don't touch the throttle until you drive her. No hot boy revs in neutral or anything. Just driver her. When you're ready to update the fuel map you will have to plug your laptop and there is a section that you could migrate the corrections under the Auto-Tune tab. I do highly recommend Chris Moore to assist you in this he can do this remotely. If you already have a tuner that's great he should know what to do hopefully he has remote software to assist you so you don't have to go to his shop.

I'm personally running moore mafia's map because my bike is a replica of his with the Brocks alien head 2. I do have the velocity stacks from carbon Smith so I did have some slight fuel corrections in some locations but nothing major.

 

[Busa3Fan]

And the last thing... Auto tune doesn't auto apply the corrected fuel map. I recommend driving her around for a good week. When she's warming up don't touch the throttle until you drive her. No hot boy revs in neutral or anything. Just driver her. When you're ready to update the fuel map you will have to plug your laptop and there is a section that you could migrate the corrections under the Auto-Tune tab. I do highly recommend Chris Moore to assist you in this he can do this remotely. If you already have a tuner that's great he should know what to do hopefully he has remote software to assist you so you don't have to go to his shop.

I'm personally running moore mafia's map because my bike is a replica of his with the Brocks alien head 2. I do have the velocity stacks from carbon Smith so I did have some slight fuel corrections in some locations but nothing major.

First of all, I super appreciate you being so helpful!

Many thanks for this!

I asked Chis Moore if I can send him the logs so he can tune the map and he said no as my bike will be supercharged and things can go wrong quickly.

Now it is true that I didn’t asked if he can just assist me with autotune.

Probably he will again say no as he doesn’t want his name around my bike if something goes wrong.

And I totally understand him.

But I will ask him and see what I get.

Regarding Woolich, I will buy the complete package in January 2023 and see from there.

Hopefully, my bike will be ready for autotune in February or March.

In that period here is still winter so I can’t run the bike 100% for autotune.

 

[TonyM995]

Auto tune is the easiest part of using woolich. You copy the log file from the Woolich logbox, then paste it in the woolich install directory, and run the auto tune. It spits out a suggested fuel map adjustment and you do it a few times until the suggested changes are not big changes.

I rode around for an hour each time and somewhat replicated how they fill all the boxes on a dyno. I wouldn’t recommend riding around for a week before processing the log. Woolich says minimum of 15 minutes ride time if I recall correctly. The woolich software analyzes the log the same that it does when Moore runs a bike on the dyno, he doesn’t read those logs.

I’d seriously consider a Maxx and I bet Boost by Smith will have a plug and play option for the Gen 3 soon. It will be worth it.

Maxx has auto tune for the fuel tables the same as Woolich and has a far superior product if you ask me. The 3 Bar map sensor and everything else that’s available makes it worth the extra cost. Pay now or pay later- I spent $800 on the entire Woolich package and am currently selling it to install a standalone ecu for boost.

That said someone should buy my Gen 3 woolich package for their all motor bike!

Autotune (local)

MaxxECU has the ability to "autotune" the main fuel table (Tuning --> Fuel table) by reading current lambda, compare with the lambda target and directly adjust the VE fuel...

www.maxxecu.com

 

[TonyM995]

@Busa3Fan i want to eat my words and say I’m wrong about a few things here.

First we know for a fact the Woolich will work with the TTS kit because Richard developed the kit with it.

You’re on the right track and I’d suggest doing a bit more research about the MAP sensor and Woolich capabilities.

I’m clearly bias towards a stand-alone because that’s what I’m more comfortable with even though I’m absolutely brand new to them.

The ecu reads from an input (sensor) and controls an output (like fuel injectors or boost controller) and can make adjustments based on the readings from the sensor(s).

I would email TTS Richard and ask what is the boost level his supercharger makes with the pulley provided and research to see what is the operating range of our bikes MAP sensor and the Woolich ecu. Stay in that range and I can’t think of a reason it wouldn’t be safe.

Verifying this would make me much more comfortable if I was going this route.

Skip to 5:30 to see a real world example where Boosted Cycle Performance ran out of MAP sensor. It doesn’t matter what ecu or boost controller he’s got because the map sensor has a range it’s designed to work in. If he tries to run the boost outside that range- the sensor is no longer able to send an accurate reading to the ecu. So yes what Chris Moore said is true and that’s why I believe it to be true.

You’re on the right path- keep trying to learn everything you can.

 

[TonyM995]

I apologize for answering a question you didn’t ask and derailing the conversation to saying you should seriously consider a Maxx.

I can only laugh at myself and afterwards noticed my bias on how I want to build a bike came out in my reply vs answering the question you asked. My bad!

 

[TonyM995]

Here is the Auto Tune User Guide from the Woolich website.

It’s beyond easy to use auto tune and I believe the days of paying someone else to tune your bike are numbered. Especially as more people realize how easy it is to use auto tune.

It’s a copy paste operation. There is no auto tune for anything else but the fuel map. This adjusts the AFR for your atmospheric conditions and that’s what you want. Hopefully TTS has taken care of the other settings for you as that’s what they state.

I’d never in a million years pay Chris Moore or anyone else to flash my ecu with a “base tune” that was created in their location.

I try to provide references that supports my statements. I don’t know everything and just want to share accurate information I’ve learned from reliable sources.

This video from Brock talks about atmospheric conditions and that is the reason you should tune AFR in the conditions where you live/ride/race.

 

[Busa3Fan]

Here is the Auto Tune User Guide from the Woolich website.

It’s beyond easy to use auto tune and I believe the days of paying someone else to tune your bike are numbered. Especially as more people realize how easy it is to use auto tune.

It’s a copy paste operation. There is no auto tune for anything else but the fuel map. This adjusts the AFR for your atmospheric conditions and that’s what you want. Hopefully TTS has taken care of the other settings for you as that’s what they state.

I’d never in a million years pay Chris Moore or anyone else to flash my ecu with a “base tune” that was created in their location.

I try to provide references that supports my statements. I don’t know everything and just want to share accurate information I’ve learned from reliable sources.

This video from Brock talks about atmospheric conditions and that is the reason you should tune AFR in the conditions where you live/ride/race.

Many thanks Tony for giving me and all the others that read this topic, lots of useful information!

 

[Got-Busa?]

First of all, I super appreciate you being so helpful!

Many thanks for this!

I asked Chis Moore if I can send him the logs so he can tune the map and he said no as my bike will be supercharged and things can go wrong quickly.

Now it is true that I didn’t asked if he can just assist me with autotune.

Probably he will again say no as he doesn’t want his name around my bike if something goes wrong.

And I totally understand him.

But I will ask him and see what I get.

Regarding Woolich, I will buy the complete package in January 2023 and see from there.

Hopefully, my bike will be ready for autotune in February or March.

In that period here is still winter so I can’t run the bike 100% for autotune.

I hope you aren’t planning to tune a boosted bike with the auto tune? I’d recommend you find a tuner with experience tuning them and get the best info you can without hurting the engine or venting the cases.

 

[Busa3Fan]

This was the plan as I hadn’t a local dyno tuner but now I do have a very good option that is not too far from me.

So I won’t use anymore the auto tune option.

 

[GSXRme]

Well... If your boosting you'll need a Max ECU. Woolich doesn't support 3 bar map sensors and you'll want properly tune her. The 1bar map sensor in the bike is for vacuum only. I personally don't understand how it's safe to tune on a 1 bar map sensor and it's absolutely not safe.

 

[Ked0607]

Well... If your boosting you'll need a Max ECU. Woolich doesn't support 3 bar map sensors and you'll want properly tune her. The 1bar map sensor in the bike is for vacuum only. I personally don't understand how it's safe to tune on a 1 bar map sensor and it's absolutely not safe.

Not doubting you but how is tts using woolich ?

 

[GSXRme]

Not doubting you but how is tts using woolich ?

No idea. The ECU can't see boost or have fuel adding tables for boost. I'm sure we'll have a Woolich boost supported map sooner than later but at the minute it doesn't exist.

We also don't have knock sensors so how happy is the engines also blows my mind. Fine knock is meh, but real knock and or misfire can be heard. Will it run? Yes. Is the engines rod bearings taking a beating? Yep....

Maybe TSS is running a gen2 ECU with Woolich boost support? Or a MoTec? I mean with how much TSS has into the Super Busa I'd hope he has a MoTec.

 

[TonyM995]

Not doubting you but how is tts using woolich ?

I was thinking they were using very low boost but as I'm learning to tune but the industry standard is a 1 bar map sensor for naturally aspirated engines and more for boost. I'd encourage you to research if you're interested and think through it for yourself. After doing that, I wouldn't run my bike with boost and a 1 bar map sensor. The Woolich worked great for me naturally aspirated though and is for sale.

edit: here is a link for map sensor recommendations or just google what size map sensor for boost

What size MAP Sensor do I need? - MRK Motorsports Official Site

Map Sensors The logic module uses the manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor to determine the absolute pressure (not the relative to atmospheric pressure) of the air inside the intake manifold and the atmosphere (barometric pressure). This information is used to determine the density of the air...

www.mrk-motorsports.com

No idea. The ECU can't see boost or have fuel adding tables for boost. I'm sure we'll have a Woolich boost supported map sooner than later but at the minute it doesn't exist.

We also don't have knock sensors so how happy is the engines also blows my mind. Fine knock is meh, but real knock and or misfire can be heard. Will it run? Yes. Is the engines rod bearings taking a beating? Yep....

Maybe TSS is running a gen2 ECU with Woolich boost support? Or a MoTec? I mean with how much TSS has into the Super Busa I'd hope he has a MoTec.

Fueltech also doesn't support a knock sensor. The big HP cars they run are said to make so much noise a knock sensor isn't useful. Good point about beating up the rod bearings and in general I like how you said keeping the engine happy. The Super Busa and other TTS bikes aren't race bikes. A lot of that money is for pretty paint, labor, the swingarm, carbon wheels, etc.

Getting a 'base map' from TTS is just the $100 bin file so people wouldn't be out any money by getting a MaxxECU. Pay now or pay later.

 

[TonyM995]

 

[Busa3Fan]

Great video, Tony!

 

[GSXRme]

I would beg to differ. If the engines built right with good piston to wall clearance engine noise can be lower than factory. I have $20k in my FA20DIT long block built by IAG and I can see my cylinder roughness offset values are way... lower than factory, even with forged internals.

 

[TonyM995]

I would beg to differ. If the engines built right with good piston to wall clearance engine noise can be lower than factory. I have $20k in my FA20DIT long block built by IAG and I can see my cylinder roughness offset values are way... lower than factory, even with forged internals.

I’m just learning how to wire as we speak and at the same time learn to tune. You have way more experience than me but Fueltech on average has cars north of 3,000 hp on their dyno so maybe they make more noise? I’m not sure and don’t have the bandwidth to learn about knock right now.

You can see how I’ve learned in between my posts on this thread. I suggested others to research what a 1 bar map sensor can read and also to see what boost TTS is set to.

Now that I’ve learned more about tuning, I’d never put boost on an engine with a 1 bar map sensor. I don’t care what TTS does.

I’ll always encourage people to think through things for themselves and research things in general terms. It’s not about TTS and Hayabusa for me when I research how things work.

I need help from others. Hopefully I can contribute to others with things that I’ve learned and in turn others will be willing to help me.

 

[TonyM995]

@GSXRme hello sir! I completed the EFI University course on intro to EFI. Of the 5 and a half pages of notes I took. Knock control was in the ‘Benefits of EFI’ section at the end of the course. literally the second to last note with two sentences. “Knock control can be used in open or closed loop. Knock sensors detect a specific range of frequency or noise.” So maybe the range of the sensor doesn’t align with the range that our motors operate in? Just like a 1 bar map sensor just can’t read boost.

I learned a lot from this course and am onto the advanced tuning concepts. I’ll be purchasing the advanced turbo concepts as well.

 

[GSXRme]

Excellent! Yes knowledge is power. This will apply to all platforms. The biggest thing I recommend learning besides closed loop and open loop is speed density and MAF understanding as well as load based tables. Hayabusa and bikes being SD only.

Just keep in mind the easy of Aftermarket ECUs such as Max, MoTec, Haltech and ect have very simple tablets vs Cobb, EcuTech, HP tuners, ect. Most 3rd party ECU unlocked ECUs have offset tables that aren't removed that would be for emissions such as TGV, EGR and a buttload of other annoying things. Looking at Woolich to be honest he did a fantastic job with no clutter. That is normally not the case.

Having the correct logging hardware setup is key and I personally import all my data into MegaLogViewer HD "paid" to give me a perfect understanding of what's going on. Tuning takes many things such as understanding, experience and some failures.

Also to give credit to aftermarket ECUs such as MoTec vs factory unlocked is my car with any unlocked ECU made 620hp before things started to get wonkie now makes 740hp on a MoTec, it was a lot easier. You also getting failsafe maps to monitor oil, fuel pressure, coolant pressure to save your investment by either turning the car off or kill performance entirely depending on how you set it up. Factory ECU that are unlocked will just give you a light and BOOM.

Load based dynos if you can rent time is a great way to get things done vs street you have a hard time finding road that's clear enough and cops might not like you driving like a jerk face.

Final comment is some ECUs you get live tables you can modify without flashing the ECU as you tune her. You can litterly dial in the fuel table perfectly then flash, where others you pull a log, modify the fuel table flash over and over. You honestly get what you pay for.