Gee, lots of paranoia among 'Busers about faster ZX-12. Relax, we have lots of straightaways in CA, but eventually you run into a curve, and the real strength of the Busa is that IT HANDLES. Had a ZX-11 for 8 years, wonderful motor, handled great at 7/10s, but wallowed and headshook like whale with a clamp on its balls if you pushed it. If you're going to go fast, my brothers, you need a decent pair of pins, and I wouldn't put much faith in Kawasaki's newfangled "over/under" frame to ace Suzuki's handling. Rode a Kwacker Eddie Lawson last week, supposed to handle well -- NOT!! -- depends on whether you have ten minutes to hang around each apex until the back end points the same direction as the front. If you see a ZX-12 in your mirrors, just head for the hills.
ZX-12 and DDT
- Thread starter Gixx1300R
- Start date
G
Guest
Terra - seems to me there is a whole lot of SCEPTICISM among the Busa owners and nothing but talk from the Kaw guys - same stuff we've been hearing for years and years and years now but recently embelished since the Hayabusa rocked the motorcycle world and sent Kaw scurrying back to their little drawing boards resulting in further delays.
Speaking for myself I'm tired of hearing all the zx-12 BS and rumors and won't really believe any of it until/if it is released and tested by legitimate, independant sources. I would be more concerned with what Suzuki has in store for future Busa models since we know they won't play around for year on end like Kaw has.
Speaking for myself I'm tired of hearing all the zx-12 BS and rumors and won't really believe any of it until/if it is released and tested by legitimate, independant sources. I would be more concerned with what Suzuki has in store for future Busa models since we know they won't play around for year on end like Kaw has.
OB_slowpoke
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Where was Suzuki for the last 8 years!!! It took them 8 years to finally be top dog by coming out with the Busa and there's all this constant chatter about Kawasaki delaying ?!?
OB_RobBase
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I'm not an expert on this matter but if Kawasaki is going to get 180+HP out of a 1200cc motor it would have to be built by the factory almost to the limit of what you can do to it as far as hp mods go. On the other hand Suzukis always seem to handle hp increases better than most. As an example, when I go to the dragstrip, the majority of the fast bikes are Suzukis. Not all but most.
Plus look at some of the stuff on dragbike.com, anyone doing anything at NHRA, Prostar, etc. is riding a Suzuki. My point is when Kawasaki puts out the ZX-12 it will probably be faster than the Hayabusa by a few mph or tenths, but not by a whole lot. But by then the Hayabusa guys will have already figured out how to get 20, 30, even 40 more dependable HP out of the 1300 motor. Kawasaki engines in the past didnt seem to allow as much HP to be squeezed out of them. So when it comes out I figure, stock, the ZX will have the edge. But most people like to do a little motor work to their bike and when they do I think the Hayabusa will be ram airing its exhaust fumes down the ZX's throat. HeHe.
Plus look at some of the stuff on dragbike.com, anyone doing anything at NHRA, Prostar, etc. is riding a Suzuki. My point is when Kawasaki puts out the ZX-12 it will probably be faster than the Hayabusa by a few mph or tenths, but not by a whole lot. But by then the Hayabusa guys will have already figured out how to get 20, 30, even 40 more dependable HP out of the 1300 motor. Kawasaki engines in the past didnt seem to allow as much HP to be squeezed out of them. So when it comes out I figure, stock, the ZX will have the edge. But most people like to do a little motor work to their bike and when they do I think the Hayabusa will be ram airing its exhaust fumes down the ZX's throat. HeHe.
OB_cbxchris
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I totally agree....kawa`s since GPZ do NOT except mods good. While suzuki was laying around for 8 years thier engines won 8 prostock championships. Also a honda or kawa don`t stand a prayer of besting a good GSXR 1100....ah I meant 1500....he he he.
G
Guest
Well even based on the 'rumors' that the Kaw guys come here and spew I still have NOT seen any evidence that the never ever released 12 will have a higher top end than the already proven 1999 Busa. The Kaw guys are claiming 165 RWHP for their phantom bike.
We already know that there are plenty of stock 99' Busas around the 160RWHP range.
The Kaw guys claim the latest rumors have the two bikes weighing the same now. Assume for the sake of argument the 'rumors' about the unproven 12 are true - how will the 12 have a higher top end with only 5 extra hp and probably less torque without the superior aerodynamics of the Busa?! We've got the aerodynamic stats for the already proven 99' Busa. Where are the stats for the unproven 12?! To further fuel my scepticism - what if the rumors about the 2000 Busa having an extra 5 hp are true? We all know how incredibly easy it is to get another 5 hp out of the detuned stock Suzuki 1300 and Suzuki has shown me that when it feels like whoopin' ass they don't screw around - they just DO IT. Now if the 2000 Busa has ~ 165rwhp(same as the 12) and weighs the same as the 12, has more torque than the 12 AND perhaps most importantly has better aerodynamics than the 12 - WHO should be paranoid??!! I think the engineers wearing GREEN are the ones who should be worried. They (Kaw) also have the most to loose as the 99' Busa has already conquered all that were available to show up and face Suzuki. Furthermore, the Kaw guys on the zx-12 list CLAIM that the never released 12 will better the Busa by AT LEAST as much as the Busa bettered the Blackbird. So lets see if I have this straight - the Kaw guys have the phantom 12 running .4 - .5 seconds quicker in the quarter mile than the Busa and about 14 mph faster in top speed. I ask again WHO SHOULD BE WORRIED?! Well I'll go out on a pretty thick limb and say that it is NOT going to happen - at least not next year as the Kaw guys claim.
Thanks for reading my dissertation.
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 29 July 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 29 July 1999).]
We already know that there are plenty of stock 99' Busas around the 160RWHP range.
The Kaw guys claim the latest rumors have the two bikes weighing the same now. Assume for the sake of argument the 'rumors' about the unproven 12 are true - how will the 12 have a higher top end with only 5 extra hp and probably less torque without the superior aerodynamics of the Busa?! We've got the aerodynamic stats for the already proven 99' Busa. Where are the stats for the unproven 12?! To further fuel my scepticism - what if the rumors about the 2000 Busa having an extra 5 hp are true? We all know how incredibly easy it is to get another 5 hp out of the detuned stock Suzuki 1300 and Suzuki has shown me that when it feels like whoopin' ass they don't screw around - they just DO IT. Now if the 2000 Busa has ~ 165rwhp(same as the 12) and weighs the same as the 12, has more torque than the 12 AND perhaps most importantly has better aerodynamics than the 12 - WHO should be paranoid??!! I think the engineers wearing GREEN are the ones who should be worried. They (Kaw) also have the most to loose as the 99' Busa has already conquered all that were available to show up and face Suzuki. Furthermore, the Kaw guys on the zx-12 list CLAIM that the never released 12 will better the Busa by AT LEAST as much as the Busa bettered the Blackbird. So lets see if I have this straight - the Kaw guys have the phantom 12 running .4 - .5 seconds quicker in the quarter mile than the Busa and about 14 mph faster in top speed. I ask again WHO SHOULD BE WORRIED?! Well I'll go out on a pretty thick limb and say that it is NOT going to happen - at least not next year as the Kaw guys claim.
Thanks for reading my dissertation.
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 29 July 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Todd (edited 29 July 1999).]
OB_gixerfreak
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Damn. We were doing so well too.......
OB_fastzx9
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If you're not worried, why write? Why even comment? It shouldn't be worth a millisecond of your time! Remember back a year and recall the same wind of rumors that swirled about this 1300 cc Suzuki monster. That panned out pretty good.... and so will Kawi's mission. Remember, 10 years or so ago Kawi brought out a bike that could run low 10 second quarters and over 170 mph. That was a tank, an aero brick, and only made 130 rwhp. Add 30-40 ponies, shave 100 pounds, make it more aero......it'll run good! And as far as the phantom 12, too many pics, too much talk, and too much info to be a phantom. It'll run, we'll just have to wait and see how good.
OB_Kamikaze
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WGAF
OB_gixerfreak
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whats a WGAF?
OB_fastzx9
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Kami, good one!
OB_maniac marshall
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Let's face it the 2000 Hayabusa is going to be at the top of the food chain!
OB_gixerfreak
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Thanks Buddah. Guess Im not internet "hip".
OB_VegasDude
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well said fastzx9.........
OB_KawAbuser
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How can anybody get upset over pure bull, we can't draw any comparisons till there IS A ZX12R, till then it's nothing but Sex, Lies and VideoHype.
Relax ride the bus and be happy and if you can't take a Joke(then_________).
Or are we going to get another lesson in politeness "PLEASE"!
[This message has been edited by KawAbuser (edited 04 August 1999).]
Relax ride the bus and be happy and if you can't take a Joke(then_________).
Or are we going to get another lesson in politeness "PLEASE"!
[This message has been edited by KawAbuser (edited 04 August 1999).]
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