Afghanistan....

jellyrug said:
Don't shoot the messenger....

cis.org

Biden’s Border Crisis Costs Municipalities $202 Billion

The reason the mayor of the world’s financial capital is speaking out about the border is that even NYC can’t pay its migrant costs anymore. Soon, no other city or town will be able to bear those costs, either.
cis.org cis.org
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And now guess what? In a classic ‘we told them so’ residents of NYC are calling for them to be rounded up and sent back to where they came from. An area overwhelmingly liberal now wants to ‘round people up’. Imagine the furor if Trump said that.
Classic liberal hypocrisy. They were all too fine when the illegals were streaming across the border but stayed down south. Now they are there and they can’t stand it.
 
I was reading an article regarding Afghanistan under Taliban rule.....

Although I basically knew most of the information in the article, it was still sobering to think that many of the people suffering under this rule were born during the NATO occupation and were "westernized" for the most part....

It must have been a serious change for them to go from being liberated and free to being oppressed and under Shira Law and women who were modernized to be forced into wearing Burkas, no more education and having to be escorted when they leave their home...

I don't know how they do it....
 
we have still Afghan interpreters which were offered British citizenship if they could have got out in Aug '22
are now holed up in hiding or those caught would have been executed

we promised them sanctuary for many but were let down
 
mark3evo said:
we have still Afghan interpreters which were offered British citizenship if they could have got out in Aug '22
are now holed up in hiding or those caught would have been executed

we promised them sanctuary for many but were let down
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The ANA collapsed so fast allowing the Taliban to take over making it almost impossible to extract everyone.

The interpreters we had knew the risks when they signed on with us the same as the LEEs we had working in the camps....at one point there were thousands of them...it would be a huge undertaking to get them all out on a good day but doing it under fire would be dramatic...
 
Oz22 said:
It just amazes me why they can't ever organize a planned retreat? It always ends in a rout with choppers and jets flying off in all directions.
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In this case, the ANA/ANP and puppet government was supposed to be leading and protecting Afghanistan, when that fell apart, it left western countries standing flat-footed and they had to react instead of plan. The enemy had the airport surrounded by the time the need for an extraction came about.

I heard a lot of palaver about if Trump would have been in charge it would have been different, in reality it wouldn't have mattered who was in charge in this case....
 
Bumblebee said:
In this case, the ANA/ANP and puppet government was supposed to be leading and protecting Afghanistan, when that fell apart, it left western countries standing flat-footed and they had to react instead of plan. The enemy had the airport surrounded by the time the need for an extraction came about.

I heard a lot of palaver about if Trump would have been in charge it would have been different, in reality it wouldn't have mattered who was in charge in this case....
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Trump set the date and plan in motion. They knew it was coming. Biden made no effort to withdraw anything. My opinion is they left it there on purpose to arm our future enemies. Gotta keep the war machine going ya know.
 
Blanca BusaLess said:
Trump set the date and plan in motion. They knew it was coming. Biden made no effort to withdraw anything. My opinion is they left it there on purpose to arm our future enemies. Gotta keep the war machine going ya know.
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In reality most plans fail when faced with the need to react such as what happened there.

The entire Afghan government which was positioned by the US collapsed.....this left the ANA and ANP out there basically leaderless and not paid so they dropped their gear, changed out of their uniforms and walked away leaving behind all the equipment that was given to them by western countries.....this all fell into Taliban hands...it wasn't supposed to, it was supposed to be in the hands of the Afghan National Army who were supposed to use it to keep the Taliban at bay....there never (ever) was a plan to extract this equipment and there never was a plan to extract people from Kabul.

There were 5000 US Air Force people in Bagram air base and they withdrew them which was the plan all along...the fact the ANA/ANP walked away was not planned for.
 
Bumblebee said:
In reality most plans fail when faced with the need to react such as what happened there.

The entire Afghan government which was positioned by the US collapsed.....this left the ANA and ANP out there basically leaderless and not paid so they dropped their gear, changed out of their uniforms and walked away leaving behind all the equipment that was given to them by western countries.....this all fell into Taliban hands...it wasn't supposed to, it was supposed to be in the hands of the Afghan National Army who were supposed to use it to keep the Taliban at bay....there never (ever) was a plan to extract this equipment and there never was a plan to extract people from Kabul.

There were 5000 US Air Force people in Bagram air base and they withdrew them which was the plan all along...the fact the ANA/ANP walked away was not planned for.
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Hi. Could it have been the ANA/ANP 's plane to give up from the start?
 
Bumblebee said:
In reality most plans fail when faced with the need to react such as what happened there.

The entire Afghan government which was positioned by the US collapsed.....this left the ANA and ANP out there basically leaderless and not paid so they dropped their gear, changed out of their uniforms and walked away leaving behind all the equipment that was given to them by western countries.....this all fell into Taliban hands...it wasn't supposed to, it was supposed to be in the hands of the Afghan National Army who were supposed to use it to keep the Taliban at bay....there never (ever) was a plan to extract this equipment and there never was a plan to extract people from Kabul.

There were 5000 US Air Force people in Bagram air base and they withdrew them which was the plan all along...the fact the ANA/ANP walked away was not planned for.
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Don't you think if Trump won the election, he would have continued talks with Taliban, got them to accept the deal for peaceful withdrawel, made sure they comply and re-negotiate the withdrawel until conditions were favorable?

Or at least would have fired a few officials if the withdrawel ended in chaos?

To me it appears as if he started negotiating with the Taliban, then got too busy with the election, walked away from it and it landed in the lap of the current Administration. From there no talks, no coordination and chaos followed. Basically the unsolved matter got dropped onto Biden's lap and it was totally mismanaged from there onwards?
 
jellyrug said:
Don't you think if Trump won the election, he would have continued talks with Taliban, got them to accept the deal for peaceful withdrawel, made sure they comply and re-negotiate the withdrawel until conditions were favorable?

Or at least would have fired a few officials if the withdrawel ended in chaos?

To me it appears as if he started negotiating with the Taliban, then got too busy with the election, walked away from it and it landed in the lap of the current Administration. From there no talks, no coordination and chaos followed. Basically the unsolved matter got dropped onto Biden's lap and it was totally mismanaged from there onwards?
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The pull out from Bagram had already happened under Trump's watch.....the forced extraction because the Taliban were knocking at the doorstep was shortly after Biden took over....I think Trump knew what was coming and left that as a gift for the incoming presidency.....
 
Bumblebee said:
The pull out from Bagram had already happened under Trump's watch.....the forced extraction because the Taliban were knocking at the doorstep was shortly after Biden took over....I think Trump knew what was coming and left that as a gift for the incoming presidency.....
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Addressed in Capitol Hill today, with the main generals who were fully involved, now retired as witnesses.

Several warnings plus suggestions to the current administration were ignored, not tolerated and not allowed. The current Administration is being blamed as fully responsible for the catastrophic consequences.

foreignaffairs.house.gov

Chairman McCaul Delivers Remarks at Hearing Examining Biden Administration's Catastrophic Afghanistan Withdrawal - Committee on Foreign Affairs

Washington, D.C. – Today, House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul delivered remarks at a full committee hearing entitled, “Behind the Scenes: How the Biden Administration Failed to Enforce the Doha Agreement.” In his opening remarks, Chairman McCaul questioned the decision made...
foreignaffairs.house.gov foreignaffairs.house.gov
 
jellyrug said:
Addressed in Capitol Hill today, with the main generals who were fully involved, now retired as witnesses.

Several warnings plus suggestions to the current administration were ignored, not tolerated and not allowed. The current Administration is being blamed as fully responsible for the catastrophic consequences.

foreignaffairs.house.gov

Chairman McCaul Delivers Remarks at Hearing Examining Biden Administration's Catastrophic Afghanistan Withdrawal - Committee on Foreign Affairs

Washington, D.C. – Today, House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul delivered remarks at a full committee hearing entitled, “Behind the Scenes: How the Biden Administration Failed to Enforce the Doha Agreement.” In his opening remarks, Chairman McCaul questioned the decision made...
foreignaffairs.house.gov foreignaffairs.house.gov
Click to expand...
One has to love leaders that dismiss their S.M.E.s and barge ahead with poor planning and execution of operations.....

The last guy did this too....
 
I guess it all comes down to what was the purpose of the invasion in the first place. I mean the excuse was 9/11, but the Taliban played no part in that. The year before the invasion though, said Taliban had basically refused to supply American Big Pharma with it's opium.

The Taliban opium ban in 2000/2001 had, there is no doubt, the most profound impact on opium/heroin supply in modern history ww.tni.org/en/article/learning-lessons-from-the-taliban-opium-ban
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On July 28, 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Omar issued a ban on the cultivation and trafficking of opium and repeated this ban in October, ordering the Taliban to plow up fields planted to poppy. The Taliban enforced a ban on poppy farming via threats, forced eradication, and public punishment of transgressors. The result was a 99% reduction in the area of opium poppy farming in Taliban-controlled areas, roughly three quarters of the world's supply of heroin at the time.
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OxyContin, introduced as a painkiller by the Purdue Pharma company in 1995 and containing a high amount of the active ingredient oxycodone.
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Much is made of the Afghan poppy being used for illicit drugs but a lot of it goes to Big Pharma too. Wars for oil, wars for drugs. When did the American Opioid crises begin? After the invasion of course, when the US controlled the largest supplier on the planet!


_106598597_afghan_opium_chart-nc-.png



Now the US are out and the Taliban is once more cracking down on opium. Is that a bad thing? As for the illicit trade, that is actually a backbone to the Global Banking system believe it or not. Just think of the volumes of cash involved, cash that for the most part moves through the banking system. You think drug dealers go to Afghanistan with billions of dollars in suitcases? The banks facilitate the trade, it's in their interest.

The World is not what you think it is.

Drug money saved banks in global crisis, claims UN advisor​

This article is more than 14 years old
Drugs and crime chief says $352bn in criminal proceeds was effectively laundered by financial institutions

Rajeev Syal
Sun 13 Dec 2009 00.05 GMT


Drugs money worth billions of dollars kept the financial system afloat at the height of the global crisis, the United Nations' drugs and crime tsar has told the Observer.
Antonio Maria Costa, head of the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, said he has seen evidence that the proceeds of organised crime were "the only liquid investment capital" available to some banks on the brink of collapse last year. ww.theguardian.com/global/2009/dec/13/drug-money-banks-saved-un-cfief-claims
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Oz22 said:
I guess it all comes down to what was the purpose of the invasion in the first place. I mean the excuse was 9/11, but the Taliban played no part in that. The year before the invasion though, said Taliban had basically refused to supply American Big Pharma with it's opium.






Much is made of the Afghan poppy being used for illicit drugs but a lot of it goes to Big Pharma too. Wars for oil, wars for drugs. When did the American Opioid crises begin? After the invasion of course, when the US controlled the largest supplier on the planet!


View attachment 1684440


Now the US are out and the Taliban is once more cracking down on opium. Is that a bad thing? As for the illicit trade, that is actually a backbone to the Global Banking system believe it or not. Just think of the volumes of cash involved, cash that for the most part moves through the banking system. You think drug dealers go to Afghanistan with billions of dollars in suitcases? The banks facilitate the trade, it's in their interest.

The World is not what you think it is.
Click to expand...
Hi. I think I will go thete on vacation this year.
 
Oz22 said:
I guess it all comes down to what was the purpose of the invasion in the first place. I mean the excuse was 9/11, but the Taliban played no part in that. The year before the invasion though, said Taliban had basically refused to supply American Big Pharma with it's opium.






Much is made of the Afghan poppy being used for illicit drugs but a lot of it goes to Big Pharma too. Wars for oil, wars for drugs. When did the American Opioid crises begin? After the invasion of course, when the US controlled the largest supplier on the planet!


View attachment 1684440


Now the US are out and the Taliban is once more cracking down on opium. Is that a bad thing? As for the illicit trade, that is actually a backbone to the Global Banking system believe it or not. Just think of the volumes of cash involved, cash that for the most part moves through the banking system. You think drug dealers go to Afghanistan with billions of dollars in suitcases? The banks facilitate the trade, it's in their interest.

The World is not what you think it is.
Click to expand...
The Taliban were hosting several terror organizations and allowing them to set up training camps, Osama bin Laden was the al Queda leader and was headquartered in Afghanistan, the Taliban wouldn’t shut down the camps and wouldn’t allow NATO to either. So the US led coalition shut them down and for the most part kept the Taliban out of power……only the Taliban were able to gain sanctuary in neighbouring countries and NATO risked war with them if they went in after them. A deal was struck so they could get bin Laden but they weren’t allowed to hit any other targets.

The Taliban were allowing farmers to grow and harvest opium and marijuana crops and expected a huge profit, when NATO troops destroyed crops and the farmer lost a child to the Taliban as a result, they turned against NATO and stopped helping them, it got so bad that the Afghan population were causing as much trouble as the Taliban near the end.
 
Bumblebee said:
The Taliban were hosting several terror organizations and allowing them to set up training camps, Osama bin Laden was the al Queda leader and was headquartered in Afghanistan, the Taliban wouldn’t shut down the camps and wouldn’t allow NATO to either. So the US led coalition shut them down and for the most part kept the Taliban out of power……only the Taliban were able to gain sanctuary in neighbouring countries and NATO risked war with them if they went in after them. A deal was struck so they could get bin Laden but they weren’t allowed to hit any other targets.

The Taliban were allowing farmers to grow and harvest opium and marijuana crops and expected a huge profit, when NATO troops destroyed crops and the farmer lost a child to the Taliban as a result, they turned against NATO and stopped helping them, it got so bad that the Afghan population were causing as much trouble as the Taliban near the end.
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Hi. Every thing over there is a big mess. I think if they would not let us hit the camps I would jave anyway and say OK lets go. Also I would fight lto win not the way we did. Like we did in WW2.
 
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