Bailey9r
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That's exactly why we are not a democracy.
Charlottesville, Virginia Well I Will Start The Conversation.
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Sorry, they don't get off the hook that easy. That's the same tired excuse they use to justify violence on their side, "because we should be able to get even". Bull. There is no person alive today that was a slave. The government has spent trillions and given favoritism in hiring and education spending to attempt to make up for it. It's a crutch made up to keep people in line and to give them a victim status, as that somehow justifies what they are doing. BLM has every right to PEACEFULLY protest their grievances, I served 26 years to help give people that right, regardless of color. HOWEVER, the MOMENT they get out in the street, block traffic, demand reparations or take to violence, they lose all credibility. The one-sided nature of all this is unbelievable. What would happen if other monuments to our nations struggles also started coming down because a particular group is 'offended' - like MLK statues for instance? Straight out of 1984, when you remove all history, then only what the state tells you TODAY is the truth and must be obeyed - in that story, EVERYONE was a slave to the state.
What they don't realize is they are being USED like pawns, just like most of the Antifa nitwits. When PAID protestors/counterprotestors are being BUSSED in to intentionally create conflict, that tells me there's more than meets the eye... LTC (Ret) Allen West hit the nail on the HEAD. Of course, he will be labeled an Uncle Tom because he doesn't go along with the victim narrative, but the Black race would be so much better off if more thought and acted like him... Even you Arch - you got an education, and a good job, worked hard and stayed clean and lifted yourself and your family up into a better life. That struggle is the same struggle for ALL races, even poor white people. And I'm HAPPY FOR YOU.
GNBRETT
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I do think the majority of BLM movement is focused on hate towards the Police. primarily due to the media or social media likely cause there are FAR less "Police Brutality" cases today they there were decades ago. so its a FACT that black citizens are treated far better today then they were in the past.
BLM as a whole is a hate group period. sure, there are a few that jus wanna "Protest". most of them have no idea what they are even protesting tho.
if the BLM movement was REALLY interested in improving the conditions in the black community and how their treated they wud need to take a LONG hard look at themselves and their own communities first cause THAT is where the problem lies. its NOT with the Police.
the black community is simply broken! it has NOTHING to do with the Police and never has.
its a badge of honor in many black communities to go to jail! but the single biggest problem in the black community is ur single motherhood rate which has gone up 50%!!!!! since the 1970. so I can ASSURE you in 1970 Racism was very prevalent and FAR more prevalent then it is TODAY yet today the black community has a 70% single motherhood rate. so being today that we are FAR less racist as a nation and minorities get more opportunities TODAY they they did ever in history are we to ASSume America is MORE racist today then in 1970? not a chance....
so bottom line is the BLM is falling on deaf ears cause their so-called movement has zero credibility! I'm all for treating people fairly. maybe wen black people stop killing other black people THEN they can criticize the Police or whoever else want but it aint cops going into their communities killing black people its Black people killing Black people...... where is the BLM movement concerning THAT issue?
BLM as a whole is a hate group period. sure, there are a few that jus wanna "Protest". most of them have no idea what they are even protesting tho.
if the BLM movement was REALLY interested in improving the conditions in the black community and how their treated they wud need to take a LONG hard look at themselves and their own communities first cause THAT is where the problem lies. its NOT with the Police.
the black community is simply broken! it has NOTHING to do with the Police and never has.
its a badge of honor in many black communities to go to jail! but the single biggest problem in the black community is ur single motherhood rate which has gone up 50%!!!!! since the 1970. so I can ASSURE you in 1970 Racism was very prevalent and FAR more prevalent then it is TODAY yet today the black community has a 70% single motherhood rate. so being today that we are FAR less racist as a nation and minorities get more opportunities TODAY they they did ever in history are we to ASSume America is MORE racist today then in 1970? not a chance....
so bottom line is the BLM is falling on deaf ears cause their so-called movement has zero credibility! I'm all for treating people fairly. maybe wen black people stop killing other black people THEN they can criticize the Police or whoever else want but it aint cops going into their communities killing black people its Black people killing Black people...... where is the BLM movement concerning THAT issue?
I think John Adams would paddle both of you on the intellectual heinie for being so thick...
Bailey9r
Registered
Quince and I used to argue about that all the time (ok I just feel that old today) but until we vote what speed we want to post on I95 and not have an elected official decide those issues for us than I will continue to "Pledge allegiance to the flag and to the Republic for which it stands". In a true Democracy we can vote yes or no that Bill Gates has to split up his money equally among all Floridians. (Oh what a coincidence, I just happen to live in fl)
Sorry for the book, but there's so much hypocrisy anymore, I honestly don't know where to start...
Earlier this year, I watched a live feed of riots/marching by angry Clinton-supporters in Ohio and one Veteran exercising his right to march with them, carrying a sign and saying “I support my President”. I was fascinated mostly because I couldn't believe he was doing it. He never engaged with a single protester using anger or violence. He was spit on, called names, harassed, then told by police that he was going to have to leave because he was creating a problem. I found it funny, the rhetoric repeated at that time, their "right to protest the election results peacefully" while denying that Veteran his very same right.
Move to the live feed of white nation rally march in Charlottesville - I hope most despise that they even exist – but they are allowed to march and protest. I have yet to see any footage of the "hate groups" provoking the violence. They walked through the streets, silently, and were followed by people screaming and ready to fight. Violent interaction ensued and the first punches came from those protesting the protesters.
The common thread here is that we have a cross-section of our country completely incapable of understanding how a civil society operates, and that WE ARE ALL responsible for making it work; civilization doesn’t work without the CIVIL part. We’re seeing people feeling empowered to revolt against anything they don’t agree with, with extreme violence. Violence against police, against politicians, against one another. The media doesn't help this, neither does Hollywood.
Ironic, isn’t it, that people who are screaming that these white-nationalist hate groups feeling empowered by the current administration feel just as empowered to rage against anyone that doesn't agree with them, even that lone Veteran cited above? While I know the exact people in each crowd are not the same, the mentality seems to be similar. This is the segment of the population screaming for understanding and tolerance. I am not blind to the hate group and what they represent, all that's still so backwards in society. I don't agree with anything they stand for, but if they were marching quietly down Main St. America saying nothing, then attacked unprovoked, that's not the America I wanted to be living in. Colin Kaepernick exercised this same right, silently in protest, and its no different than the protest these hate groups exercised, whether we like it or not. I don't happen to like what either's represented or how, or why, BUT THAT THEY CAN DO SO is the point we need to hold on to as Americans. It's a slippery slope when we allow one segment of the population control everyone else. The price we pay for this right - we have to witness the freedom of others, exercising that same right, even if their views differ vastly from our own.
Empowerment is happening on ALL SIDES. If you refuse to acknowledge that simple fact, you are a part of the problem. Violence toward anyone based on your opinion of something is not how this works. Screaming how horrible the police are, then screaming that you need more police in Charlottesville as violence erupts is almost comical at this point. We've become a society of hypocrites; can't wish every cop dead, then blame them for the violence happening. My head spins, watching it all. These two very different scenarios had outcomes triggered by hatred and violence due to intolerance, and isn't that ironic as well? You want tolerance, you have to accept and tolerate, even when you absolutely disagree with whatever you're being forced to tolerate.
Americans can peacefully protest. If you don’t like what’s being protested, form your own march, peacefully, and march right alongside if you can, steal the thunder they thought they were bringing. Diversion can be your best ally.
This is how you counter stupid – you remove the ability for others to even notice the other side. Thank you Foo Fighters, for serenading & Rick-Rolling the Westboro whatever they are…..
Earlier this year, I watched a live feed of riots/marching by angry Clinton-supporters in Ohio and one Veteran exercising his right to march with them, carrying a sign and saying “I support my President”. I was fascinated mostly because I couldn't believe he was doing it. He never engaged with a single protester using anger or violence. He was spit on, called names, harassed, then told by police that he was going to have to leave because he was creating a problem. I found it funny, the rhetoric repeated at that time, their "right to protest the election results peacefully" while denying that Veteran his very same right.
Move to the live feed of white nation rally march in Charlottesville - I hope most despise that they even exist – but they are allowed to march and protest. I have yet to see any footage of the "hate groups" provoking the violence. They walked through the streets, silently, and were followed by people screaming and ready to fight. Violent interaction ensued and the first punches came from those protesting the protesters.
The common thread here is that we have a cross-section of our country completely incapable of understanding how a civil society operates, and that WE ARE ALL responsible for making it work; civilization doesn’t work without the CIVIL part. We’re seeing people feeling empowered to revolt against anything they don’t agree with, with extreme violence. Violence against police, against politicians, against one another. The media doesn't help this, neither does Hollywood.
Ironic, isn’t it, that people who are screaming that these white-nationalist hate groups feeling empowered by the current administration feel just as empowered to rage against anyone that doesn't agree with them, even that lone Veteran cited above? While I know the exact people in each crowd are not the same, the mentality seems to be similar. This is the segment of the population screaming for understanding and tolerance. I am not blind to the hate group and what they represent, all that's still so backwards in society. I don't agree with anything they stand for, but if they were marching quietly down Main St. America saying nothing, then attacked unprovoked, that's not the America I wanted to be living in. Colin Kaepernick exercised this same right, silently in protest, and its no different than the protest these hate groups exercised, whether we like it or not. I don't happen to like what either's represented or how, or why, BUT THAT THEY CAN DO SO is the point we need to hold on to as Americans. It's a slippery slope when we allow one segment of the population control everyone else. The price we pay for this right - we have to witness the freedom of others, exercising that same right, even if their views differ vastly from our own.
Empowerment is happening on ALL SIDES. If you refuse to acknowledge that simple fact, you are a part of the problem. Violence toward anyone based on your opinion of something is not how this works. Screaming how horrible the police are, then screaming that you need more police in Charlottesville as violence erupts is almost comical at this point. We've become a society of hypocrites; can't wish every cop dead, then blame them for the violence happening. My head spins, watching it all. These two very different scenarios had outcomes triggered by hatred and violence due to intolerance, and isn't that ironic as well? You want tolerance, you have to accept and tolerate, even when you absolutely disagree with whatever you're being forced to tolerate.
Americans can peacefully protest. If you don’t like what’s being protested, form your own march, peacefully, and march right alongside if you can, steal the thunder they thought they were bringing. Diversion can be your best ally.
This is how you counter stupid – you remove the ability for others to even notice the other side. Thank you Foo Fighters, for serenading & Rick-Rolling the Westboro whatever they are…..
What is the world is going on, to quote a line from a movie "Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!" of all the things that have transpired in this thread the most shocking thing to me is that Michelle has one of the most logical well thought out descriptive post... Our little girl done got married, educated and moved on up!
Nice write up Chelle!
Nice write up Chelle!
I have said it a few times before, but will say it again:
The freedom of speech and our democracy has gone too far, somewhere a line has to be drawn! All this BS about entitlement and constitutional amendment rights is why we are where we are today.
This is what happens if folks try this stuff in other first world civilized countries, see linky below:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ag-tourists-face-three-years-in-prison-berlin
The freedom of speech and our democracy has gone too far, somewhere a line has to be drawn! All this BS about entitlement and constitutional amendment rights is why we are where we are today.
This is what happens if folks try this stuff in other first world civilized countries, see linky below:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ag-tourists-face-three-years-in-prison-berlin
So are you saying this story is as ridiculous as I think it is? Stupid acts by individuals that aren't too bright, like deciding to "tour North Korea". Murderers sometimes get less time for far worse.
I have real heartache over morons being morons, but being jailed when there's no actual harm done, that baffles me.
Over dinner tonight I told my kids, if you're ever so offended by something, like people marching in protest, put on some Barney suits and carry signs that say "I support this idiot's right to his moronic ideals" with any arrow pointing to the protesters.
Let them march, protect that right if no one's being hurt, but get the focus on you
I'm going to start making signs now, might be my ticket out of this IT gig
Over dinner tonight I told my kids, if you're ever so offended by something, like people marching in protest, put on some Barney suits and carry signs that say "I support this idiot's right to his moronic ideals" with any arrow pointing to the protesters.
Let them march, protect that right if no one's being hurt, but get the focus on you
I'm going to start making signs now, might be my ticket out of this IT gig
You always have been smarter than the rest of us!
Not saying it is stupid. If we wish to enjoy utmost freedom here in the Wild West and do however we please, then we should not complain about the consequences.
That is how it started, no harm done, but it ended with life lost.
I honestly couldn't tell with your initial post how you felt.
The problem I have is this - we will NEVER not offend someone, ever. But, if society keeps trying to pander to every single group that decides "Today I hate this, tomorrow it's that", before you know it, it's something YOU are doing, saying, wearing, driving, listening to that's gotta go. Censorship based on opinion is so scary. Watching this only feels good when it's not directly affecting us, but when it finally comes full circle, we'll be wondering when it all started. I would never want to be associated with anyone that thinks emulating Hitler in any way is ok, but I also don't want to live in a country where that freedom to be an idiot posing for a photo serves time in jail.
I've said it here before, and I'll say it again, because the stupid in this world will always exist - live your life treating others with respect, don't cause harm, and as long as other's actions, hobbies, weird clothes and whatever they do aren't causing anyone physical, metal or emotional harm, don't stick your nose in it. The more attention people like that get, and the more we give, the more mainstream they become.
The problem is where do we draw the line:
Sometimes psychological abuse (verbal) can do more damage than physical abuse. So is the freedom to practice character assassination in public and destroy a person or ethnic group OK, as long as no one is slapped through the face? Not in my book, I would rather take the slap in the face and trade a few punches, then make up over a beer.
Freedom in the US is allowing people to burn the flag, while in France, Germany, Austria, Italy etc., it is a criminal offence. As a young country, perhaps we can learn something from these civilizations some established over a 1,000 years ago.
Let's get back to Charlottesville. Mr. Kessler practiced his First Amendment right and had a permit for this white supremacist rally which he organized. So legally he was entitled to practice character assassination against non-white groups. What followed is no surprise. Meanwhile in Germany, where the Nazi's were born, one gets prosecuted if a Nazi salute is dared. Perhaps we do not have to go to this extreme, but don't you think a line needs to be drawn somewhere?
I agree with what you say about abuse in general, and it was running through my mind as I typed it. "Abuse" though, like "bullying" is a term that can also be abused. Nowadays, it's like the old story of Chicken Little and the sky is falling. True bullying and abuse happens, REALLY bad things, but there's also a populace that now throws the terms around so loosely, like candy, kind of like a woman screaming "sexual harassment" in a situation that most would agree wasn't sexual harassment at all. The PC thing in today's lawyer-ridden world is to cave to the rhetoric, the buzz, because fighting it only makes you look like you don't care enough about "the cause".
I see it differently - people that I know KNOW what living through real sexual abuse or real bullying is like, that have lived through real hell, watching others throwing those terms around because it bothers them that little Johnny makes a finger gesture at them in 1st grade that looks like a gun, and now they fear for their very lives. No, THAT is not a real threat, but today, in America, Americans think it warrants little Johnny to be singled out and made an example of.
But I digress - back to the march in C'Ville - while I hate everything Mr. Kessler represents, if his idiotic group gathered and walked down the streets quietly in their protest for things they don't agree with, I find that better that a more respectful approach to expression than destroying property, or attacking someone with violence for no other reason than they are marching in protest. And let's not forget this - Mr. Kessler didn't kill anyone in C'Ville. A man named James Alex Fields from Ohio did, a "loner, guy that didn't have a lot of friends, someone that was interested in Neo-Nazis and Germany and took it to a whole new level". Did Mr. Kessler even know this man? I have no idea. Are you saying he is the reason a potentially unstable man went rogue with his car and mowed down a crowd of people? That's quite a stretch without facts to connect the dots.
I know it's hard to remove the emotion from how you feel about the group; I have had a tough time doing it myself, but I'm surrounded by friends that are looking over and over for someone to blame for the state we're in today, as a society. The rogue unstable guy that shows up during ANY event cannot be tied to whatever event was held, I don't care how much you hate the event to begin with. If C'Ville granted this group to march, legally, and they proceeded to do just that and were attacked, THAT they were attacked is what people should be upset over. I'm amazed more aren't willing to see the inherent flaw in this because eventually it'll be MY RIGHTS, YOUR RIGHTS that are trampled on. I see a segment of society that doesn't seem to care about that simple fact, likely because they don't feel it affects them. It will.
But he didn't - he got a legal permit to march in protest and his group was greeted with violence. Another rogue attack by a man in a vehicle resulted in a death, completely unrelated to the march. Take up the legal right to protest with the City of Charlottesville or any high court...you'll never win that case jellyrug. You've got to take the emotion out of it, that's the ONLY way our judicial system will work.
Too many are injecting their personal feelings, emotions and opinions on how they think our country should run because we're talking about a white-supremist hate group. I hate that I'm even having to defend him/them, but had this been "Moms with guns" marching and something bad happened by a rogue driver, I seriously doubt we'd even be discussing this at all. THAT is the problem. It's a really scary place to be in.
Anyone notice that alot of the same faces are at every protest in this country? That they are paid to travel around and stir up violence.
I don't support the white supremecist group that was in Charottesville, but they had a permit, and a legal right to be there.
The ones that showed up to protest them, were assembling unlawfully.
Had no one but the ws showed up...nothing would have happened.
The ws would've marched around for the day, until their permit expired, and then they would've went home, or been arrested.
The ws showed up to incite violence, and all who showed up opposing, fell right into the trap.
When liberal groups pay protesters, they are using them as pawns.
Government manipulating society.
Helps to gain power, by removing more of it from the public.
Wait and see what rights become taken as these situations continue to escalate.
I don't support the white supremecist group that was in Charottesville, but they had a permit, and a legal right to be there.
The ones that showed up to protest them, were assembling unlawfully.
Had no one but the ws showed up...nothing would have happened.
The ws would've marched around for the day, until their permit expired, and then they would've went home, or been arrested.
The ws showed up to incite violence, and all who showed up opposing, fell right into the trap.
When liberal groups pay protesters, they are using them as pawns.
Government manipulating society.
Helps to gain power, by removing more of it from the public.
Wait and see what rights become taken as these situations continue to escalate.
sixpack577 - I can't confirm all that you've said about "the same faces showing up", but I won't deny that the rage seen at most events since elections are very emboldened and violent. Under President Obama, this violence did not exist at marches and rallies. There was hatred for his administration by many, no one can deny that fact, but the overall threat of violence? I did not see it, and that's coming from someone that is very much middle of the road.
Along the lines of what's going on today with the monuments being removed (or destroyed), and the reason the march in C'Ville was even happening -
We should not be tearing down pieces of our history to appease anyone's personal feelings about how or why the monuments or markers are there. History is ugly and riddled with artifacts that show our internal struggle, and perhaps as generations go by and we accept more facts along the way, we educate. The movement to make everyone "feel safe" and erase our past is a mistake, and it's one that is being done only to appease this group or that group, not the nation. I'd rather keep it intact and teach the future how ugly it was, how wrong certain ideals and treatment of your fellow man could be, and never repeat it again.
Imagine if one day, Auschwitz is completely destroyed, every remnant of it replaced with high-rise office buildings and apartments, bustling with life and producing profit for corporations. The tragic history of that place would forever be lost; future generations could never stand there and see the vastness of it all or how sacred it should be held because of what it represents, the lives lost there and why. I've walked the battlefields here in Virginia, kept as intact as possible to preserve that history. It's numbing at times to stop and imagine what life was like for soldiers in those redoubts during the Civil War, and that's the limit of what I can do - stop and imagine for a moment. If it's erased, every single bit of what happened and why, or understand the "who", future generations we will never appreciate where we are now. Good and bad, I believe we have to stop and respect all sides of history. Erasing it accomplishes nothing beyond making this group happy for now, then the next group comes along and decides what needs to go or be changed next. History does not change.
Along the lines of what's going on today with the monuments being removed (or destroyed), and the reason the march in C'Ville was even happening -
We should not be tearing down pieces of our history to appease anyone's personal feelings about how or why the monuments or markers are there. History is ugly and riddled with artifacts that show our internal struggle, and perhaps as generations go by and we accept more facts along the way, we educate. The movement to make everyone "feel safe" and erase our past is a mistake, and it's one that is being done only to appease this group or that group, not the nation. I'd rather keep it intact and teach the future how ugly it was, how wrong certain ideals and treatment of your fellow man could be, and never repeat it again.
Imagine if one day, Auschwitz is completely destroyed, every remnant of it replaced with high-rise office buildings and apartments, bustling with life and producing profit for corporations. The tragic history of that place would forever be lost; future generations could never stand there and see the vastness of it all or how sacred it should be held because of what it represents, the lives lost there and why. I've walked the battlefields here in Virginia, kept as intact as possible to preserve that history. It's numbing at times to stop and imagine what life was like for soldiers in those redoubts during the Civil War, and that's the limit of what I can do - stop and imagine for a moment. If it's erased, every single bit of what happened and why, or understand the "who", future generations we will never appreciate where we are now. Good and bad, I believe we have to stop and respect all sides of history. Erasing it accomplishes nothing beyond making this group happy for now, then the next group comes along and decides what needs to go or be changed next. History does not change.
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