RedBull
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Charlottesville, Virginia Well I Will Start The Conversation.
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He started the controlled brush fire, the violence he was greeted with is the wind which blew it into the forest.
Do you believe Federal Judge Glen Conrad is surprised that the injunction he ruled to proceed with the rally organized by Mr. Kessler promoting white supremacy and allowing character assassination of ethnic groups caused violent opposition, loss of life and emotions out of control?
To me that is common sense 101, if the problem is the judicial system, perhaps that is what needs to be addressed?
I can't believe that folks are surprised by how this ended!
Again, if that amount of freedom is granted, those in support should not complain about the consequences.
RedBull
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Vabs, I happen to agree with EVERYTHING you said above, EXCEPT 
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You commented on Capernick, exercising his right...Yes, he had the right, and he is facing the CONSEQUENCES of his decision. These numbnuts (Antifa/BLM) seem to face no consequences, and that's whats empowering them to keep doing it.
I live in Tennessee, the home of the KKK. They march every year in Pulaski where it was created by 6 Confederate Veterans. They march peacefully. They are often counter-protested, again PEACEFULLY, by those that don't agree with them. American Democracy and the Bill of Rights in action. It's also a painful reminder of HISTORY - Those who fail to study it are doomed to repeat it.
Antifa and BLM are the ones resorting to violence; with the press and paid agitators egging them on, just HOPING someone will respond. You didn't see video of the counter-protesters throwing bricks and urine balloons, but you damn well saw what the car did - and maybe you saw the baseball bat wielding counter-protesters immediately all over it...yet the press ignored it.
I say it again, Tolerance only goes SO FAR. Eventually, you are gonna poke the tiger one too many times.
Lastly, these city leaders are D*%& COWARDS. Jeez it's really staring to feel like Orwell's 1984...
:You commented on Capernick, exercising his right...Yes, he had the right, and he is facing the CONSEQUENCES of his decision. These numbnuts (Antifa/BLM) seem to face no consequences, and that's whats empowering them to keep doing it.
I live in Tennessee, the home of the KKK. They march every year in Pulaski where it was created by 6 Confederate Veterans. They march peacefully. They are often counter-protested, again PEACEFULLY, by those that don't agree with them. American Democracy and the Bill of Rights in action. It's also a painful reminder of HISTORY - Those who fail to study it are doomed to repeat it.
Antifa and BLM are the ones resorting to violence; with the press and paid agitators egging them on, just HOPING someone will respond. You didn't see video of the counter-protesters throwing bricks and urine balloons, but you damn well saw what the car did - and maybe you saw the baseball bat wielding counter-protesters immediately all over it...yet the press ignored it.
I say it again, Tolerance only goes SO FAR. Eventually, you are gonna poke the tiger one too many times.
Lastly, these city leaders are D*%& COWARDS. Jeez it's really staring to feel like Orwell's 1984...
Soooo... Jelly, should the next time BLM marches down the middle of the street, those who don't agree with them get a by on attacking them?
I'm shocked, to be honest, that the hate group didn't show up and act out first. I wish they had because the entire conversation would be so much easier and we could lay blame where we want, where you keep trying. I hear rumor that this same hate group is slated to appear in Richmond, only an hour from my house (C'Ville is 2 hours away), in September. Richmond is NOT C'Ville, so the outcome will be far worse I fear.
I can't believe you're actually drawing the conclusion that one is responsible fully for the other though jellyrug - an organized, approved march and a crazy guy in a car that felt empowered by what's going on, one is not directly responsible for the other UNLESS it comes to light that the driver was following direct orders from this hate group (and if that happens, I'm all for it - means the hate group will be in the cross-hairs). That's like me going to see Ice T in concert, he's singing 'Cop Killer', then a crazy person jumps up and kills the cops working the venue. Is that Ice T's fault or at some point is society going to start calling mental illness what it is? I don't agree with every message, but freedom from censorship exists. The acts of one crazy person cannot always be put on another; truly what's wrong with America today - everyone wants someone else to blame. Good grief, I suppose we should release Charles Manson finally, and lock up the remaining 2 Beatles - their music drove Manson to order killings, according to Charles. It wasn't the mind of an insane person, right?!
What needs to happen with these hate groups, find a legal way to disband them......I'd love to see it happen, but it won't likely be a reality. What defines a hate group? Is it just the white-supremacists, or are you going to start dissecting groups that hide behind a sweeping message, then encourage and defend killing cops? There's a reason they are still allowed, and why is that? I don't like it, but good luck getting rid of 'em.
Let's put it this way. If I was a very kind man and I would allow them to protest in my backyard, I would first review their agenda and conduct. If I believed the content would compromise public safety, I will no longer allow the protest. And trust me, where I come from we know how to deal with illegal protests swiftly.
Vabs, I happen to agree with EVERYTHING you said above, EXCEPT
You commented on Capernick, exercising his right...Yes, he had the right, and he is facing the CONSEQUENCES of his decision. These numbnuts (Antifa/BLM) seem to face no consequences, and that's whats empowering them to keep doing it.
I live in Tennessee, the home of the KKK. They march every year in Pulaski where it was created by 6 Confederate Veterans. They march peacefully. They are often counter-protested, again PEACEFULLY, by those that don't agree with them. American Democracy and the Bill of Rights in action. It's also a painful reminder of HISTORY - Those who fail to study it are doomed to repeat it.
Antifa and BLM are the ones resorting to violence; with the press and paid agitators egging them on, just HOPING someone will respond. You didn't see video of the counter-protesters throwing bricks and urine balloons, but you damn well saw what the car did - and maybe you saw the baseball bat wielding counter-protesters immediately all over it...yet the press ignored it.
I say it again, Tolerance only goes SO FAR. Eventually, you are gonna poke the tiger one too many times.
Lastly, these city leaders are D*%& COWARDS. Jeez it's really staring to feel like Orwell's 1984...
I agree with you - and for the record, I hated what Colin did, hat that the NFL allows it, but hey the NFL allows a lot LOL I was trying to draw the weak parallel that in this country, anyone and everyone has the right to their form of protest (and yeah, suffer the consequences as Colin is) I'm drawing the line at violence though, as a reaction to peaceful protest. I did see the vids, probably more than many because I seek them out on sites that show uncensored information, also unhindered by opinion. I like to find my own truth. I saw who incited the violence in C'Ville, and who was screaming for the police and laying blame on them, and even my kids stopped to watch, shook their heads. They're 15 & 16 and they know, none of this is OK.
I've spent countless hours watching both CNN and Fox News and I can say this with a clear conscience - they all sensationalize every story, and they spin to the left and right. If anyone spends all of their time reading or listening to just one side, you will never know the whole story. Honestly, if you don't seek facts outside of mainstream media, you will never know everything, so it makes this all very hard to research.
I cannot believe I've spent any amount of time defending this, that white-nationalists should be allowed to march, but I watched too much and wondered what kind of country do I live in now, when I'm seeing people incite violence over and over again, against a Veteran doing the same thing, marching peacefully, to the streets of C'Ville near my home - same mentality, same sense of "We don't like this, so we're allowed to be violent". That has never been a part of the norm, ever. It wasn't normal under President Obama, it's not rational behavior, and certainly not civil in any way. There's plenty in the world I don't agree with, but I've never felt the need to take to the streets and beat someone up for not agreeing with me or voting differently than I did. I don't go around with a list of items that make me "uncomfortable" now and must be removed. It's unreal to me, the safe spaces required, how everyone needs to work to pander to the lowest common denominator. The KKK is not new, but the widespread underlying approval I'm seeing hitting the streets, city to city is relatively new, the agenda against cops, the upheaval against civility. Which one is the hate group now? Seriously, the lines are blurred and one is becoming no better than the other, yet they think they are...it baffles me.
None of that's directed at you skydivr, just speaking in general
Very subjective, very dangerous.
They applied for and were granted a permit to protest, and that's what they did. You're now drawing conclusions to this entire scenario based on what actually transpired.
1) anti-protesters attacked with violence
2) man acting along ran over innocent bystanders
We all hate that they were even there, I'm not disagreeing with you on that, but please, acknowledge that those 2 items above are completely outside of the fact that you had a legally permitted gathering of people, marching in protest. It may have been any group and the outcome could potentially be the same, given the emboldened unrest we're seeing today. Pro-life march, Second Amendment supporters, pro-Trump supporters, pro-police rally......you see a trend? I do, and I don't subscribe to either side, ask anyone who really knows me.
There is a scary shift going on, and it needs to be checked.
Vab's we are getting closer to being on the same page. Except, I kind of like the fact that Germany will arrest someone throwing the Nazi salute.
I have no bias towards any group whatsoever. We cannot control the way people think, however there should be rules to enable living together in a safe country and safe communities.
Where I am coming from is that protests should be regulated towards being peaceful, without the threat of damaging someone's ego due to his constitutional rights. We have seen too many illegal protests lately (guns, violence, fatalities, destruction of private property, burning of vehicles etc.) IMHO this is paying too much attention to freedom of speech and freedom to protest, rather than regulating this a bit more towards evaluating the risk and not allowing a protest if it has a high risk for getting out of control.
My values are totally against entitlement, when I drive my Busa on the street, I regard it as a privilege, not my right. The same goes with any other activity that may offend my fellow citizens. So, in short I have little sympathy with most of the protests we have seen lately, causing public disruption and harm, either by who organized the protest, or those who opposed it because the subject was emotionally and severely controversial.
There is also the policing of these events. Twenty years ago I have personally experienced out of control violent protests, worse than anything you have seen in the USA. Eventually, it was a matter of allowing a peaceful protest until control gets out of hand. What followed was an immediate state of emergency and a curfew. The streets would be clear in a couple of hours. There are means to do this without fatalities.
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Vab's we are getting closer to being on the same page. Except, I kind of like the fact that Germany will arrest someone throwing the Nazi salute.
I have no bias towards any group whatsoever. We cannot control the way people think, however there should be rules to enable living together in a safe country and safe communities.
Where I am coming from is that protests should be regulated towards being peaceful, without the threat of damaging someone's ego due to his constitutional rights. We have seen too many illegal protests lately (guns, violence, fatalities, destruction of private property, burning of vehicles etc.) IMHO this is paying too much attention to freedom of speech and freedom to protest, rather than regulating this a bit more towards evaluating the risk and not allowing a protest if it has a high risk for getting out of control.
My values are totally against entitlement, when I drive my Busa on the street, I regard it as a privilege, not my right. The same goes with any other activity that may offend my fellow citizens. So, in short I have little sympathy with most of the protests we have seen lately, causing public disruption and harm, either by who organized the protest, or those who opposed it because the subject was emotionally and severely controversial.
There is also the policing of these events. Twenty years ago I have personally experienced out of control violent protests, worse than anything you have seen in the USA. Eventually, it was a matter of allowing a peaceful protest until control gets out of hand. What followed was an immediate state of emergency and a curfew. The streets would be clear in a couple of hours. There are means to do this without fatalities.
^ I agree with you on most of that jellyrug, however, tossing someone in jail for the Nazi salute? Nope, that's stupid, just like I think it's ridiculous that 5-year-olds are now sent home and CPS called in if your kid holds his hand up, forms it like a gun in school. Nowadays, that's apparently an early signal for the imminent school-shooter-scenario, not just a kid being a kid. Before too long, that kid's parents will be in jail for that kid and his little "finger gun". Think that's insane? I don't, because that's how insane our society is becoming at the hands of "I'm offended and now fearful of your 5 year old being normal".
The point with the march in C'Ville is simple - it was a peaceful protest. Whether we like who was peacefully protesting doesn't matter, it was their right. That another group decided to be violent is the issue, and it's happening over and over again. So, how do we regulate that? Not allow peaceful protests? Decide that because we don't like one message (this white-nationalist group for example), they can't march? Then what happens when it's any other group? Who decides? That's the dangerous, subjective slippery slope that allows them to march, and the one that we must fight to protect. If we don't, the groups that we want there will be denied by the next person allowed to be subjective.
You have to fight to keep that right, and fight against approval of the violence that ensued simply because they were allowed to protest. Let them mess up their group on their own terms; they will, hopefully, eventually. It's a hate group - surely they'll slip up one day.
So, when are we going to visit Germany?
What is the solution, or do we accept that there is none?
As mentioned, I have been through this worse than you will ever see in the good O'l USA. Imagine getting a phone call at your desk, that one of your your semi-trucks with a load of soft-drinks has been hijacked, and the crew plus the driver are lying on the sidewalk and in the street shot dead with AK47's, because they refused to take part in a labor strike and the protest that followed. Imagine it not even making the news, because it happens so often.
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That's the 4th post I wrote and deleted without posting. Lol!
So, when are we going to visit Germany?
What is the solution, or do we accept that there is none?
As mentioned, I have been through this worse than you will ever see in the good O'l USA. Imagine getting a phone call at your desk, that one of your your semi-trucks with a load of soft-drinks has been hijacked, and the crew plus the driver are lying on the sidewalk and in the street shot dead with AK47's, because they refused to take part in a labor strike and the protest that followed. Imagine it not even making the news, because it happens so often.
I do believe I have German decedents, so let's go...I'm sure there are amazing and humbling sites to behold there
Arm-chair QB in me, after C'Ville - had everyone just stayed home, no media, no counter protesters, nothing........that hate group would have shown up and marched, and then what? Pretty anti-climactic ending to a group most of America hates, right?
Isn't it a shame no one gathered via social media to encourage just that, to stay away? It's amazing how quickly people rally for the drama, but we can't bring ourselves to avoid it to save our lives. The media will NEVER do that; they were there hoping for exactly what they got - death and destruction, and now the blame game.
We the People are in complete control of how that could have played out, but we don't even try. That's my solution - start trying to not be a part of the problem, and don't give these groups, ANY of these groups, any of our time. The more press they get, the worse off we all are...
They hate black people because they exist. So I'm sort a part of the problem whether I want to be or not. Read up on your history. Ignoring these people won't make them go away...........
I dunno..............
If this thing is not regulated, it can only get worse.
Imagine being one of those poor policemen, having the responsibility to try and control the crowd, with almost no authority to take action, due to the risk of being crucified.
And we the people expect these thugs to be let loose in a protest, because we call it freedom? Charlottesville is only one small example, not even close to the biggest in the past few years.
If this thing is not regulated, it can only get worse.
Imagine being one of those poor policemen, having the responsibility to try and control the crowd, with almost no authority to take action, due to the risk of being crucified.
And we the people expect these thugs to be let loose in a protest, because we call it freedom? Charlottesville is only one small example, not even close to the biggest in the past few years.
Good perspective Arch. My old country has now reached a stage where white people are hated because they exist. Maybe when we come back to planet earth 10,000 years from today, if it still exists, it will be a bit more civilized and we will all be the same color. The Hayabusa will be hydrogen powered, but still only change colors from one year to the next.
And they would hate me because I'm friends with black people, and my significant other is half-Cuban, so what? I don't feel it's my right to walk up to a single one of them, unprovoked, and take a swing, even if I hate with every fiber of my being what they stand for, and I do.
There are plenty of groups that exist that I don't agree with, but I will fight for their right to be the idiots they choose to be as long as they aren't in the act of violent crime. When did this country decide it's OK to accept violence as a counter-measure, on our streets?! Until our justice system finds a way to legally handle them, we're stuck. Marginalize their existence by giving them less screen time, make them invisible.
I know history, and I also know I'd rather continue to teach my sons right from wrong. We'll forever have these moronic examples in our society. I start with education in my home, of history, of treatment of people, I try to understand all conditions I'm fortunate enough to never live, so my sons can understand what others endure(d), have empathy, and treat their fellow human with respect.
Vigilantism is illegal.
You're missing the point. These people don't have an idea I disagree with they are terrorists and murderers who would like to dissolve our America and stand up a country in its place that will not be good or fair. They proved this again on Saturday. I'm not a violent person but I would have fought them in 1860, 1939 and will fight them now if necessary.
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