Charlottesville, Virginia Well I Will Start The Conversation.
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RedBull
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I meant to address this but got distracted. I agree with this. You decide to get this plate and I think you should be able to say what you want. You buy it, you display it. Any group can get a plate with enough signatures I believe. It's different using my tax dollars to place a statue of a traitor and a person who fought to keep people classified as less than full human on "our" public lands. If a private company wants to place a confederate statue on their corporate property that's their business. The statues should not be vandalized or torn down by mob action. But if state and local governments legally remove them that is fine as those officials are subject to a vote when their terms are over.
Arch,
You really do need to spend some time reviewing history and what the civil war was really about, it is not the singular issue you seem to think it is. Hint, slavery didn't become a driving force until well after it started. States rights (no not the right to have slaves) was actually the main issue and you might be surprised to not only learn the North had their slaves longer into and after the war than the south but also one of the largest, most notorious and brutal slave owners in the entire history of this country was a black man. True story...
You're mind will really be blown once you realize what political party started the KKK, fought the civil rights acts and 7 Supreme Court justices who were democrats voted to legalize salvery, the only two justices voted against it were republicans. So if you want to remove all these vestiges of racism and hate don't forget about the democrat party...
You really do need to spend some time reviewing history and what the civil war was really about, it is not the singular issue you seem to think it is. Hint, slavery didn't become a driving force until well after it started. States rights (no not the right to have slaves) was actually the main issue and you might be surprised to not only learn the North had their slaves longer into and after the war than the south but also one of the largest, most notorious and brutal slave owners in the entire history of this country was a black man. True story...
You're mind will really be blown once you realize what political party started the KKK, fought the civil rights acts and 7 Supreme Court justices who were democrats voted to legalize salvery, the only two justices voted against it were republicans. So if you want to remove all these vestiges of racism and hate don't forget about the democrat party...
I probably know more about the civil war than you do. I live in VA, I have visited 4 civil war battle fields and read many books on the subject. Much of my riding is through the back woods and near the plantations along the James River. I often stop to read plaques or google and area I'm riding through to learn about it. We also have many museums dedicated to this period. You are absolutely mistaken about the reason for the civil war. There are many quotes from confederates stating the war was about slavery. Many wanted to abolish slavery with the constitution, but it was clear there would be no union without slavery. So the civil war was brewing from the start. Slavery was considered a third world thing even by 1776, and many in the new American government knew the world would see us as a "colony" as long as we held slaves. Cotton is very difficult to harvest (I have picked it. Very hard work and the husks are sharp and cut your hands). Human dexterity was needed as the machine technology was not available at the time - so slavery was necessary to base an economy on cotton. It's interesting to note abolishing slavery was a worldwide trend with Spain in 1811, Sweden in 1813, Netherlands in 1814 or so, France was 1817 or 1820 I think, and England about 1830 I think.
The democratic party was at the time more "democratic." Most people were in favor of slavery (blacks could not vote). Republicans were more representative. Their leaders understood the need for America to clean up it's act to join the first world nations. So yes it was the Republicans who freed the slaves. And yes I know Lincoln didn't really care one way or another about slavery. As late as the late 50's, the democratic party has a dubious support of minorities. Its not dubious now though is it?
Yes blacks participated in the institution of slavery. And yes they were just as wrong as the whites who did it. I always find this comment comical, but it comes up anytime someone is trying to rationalize the inhumanity of slavery. Just so you know I have a bigger problem personally with what has been done after emancipation.
Justintime2 you seem to have a very stereotypical understanding of black people.
It's beyond dubious now Arch, the democrat party has destroyed the black community, robbing them of any hope by enslaving them with entitlements. In fairness there's but a dimes worth of difference between the left and right anymore despite their professing otherwise with the public shows of disagreement, so they both essentially carnival bark for the same thing, votes.
Who said anything about rationalizing slavery? Again you see what you've been conditioned/want to see, everyone's rationalizing and stereotypical it would seem but you. Would you have condemned the blacks role in enslaving their own people had I not called it out? Doubtful as you then minimize it by calling it "comical".
And by the way, it's not anywhere near ending in the 50's when they had a dubious connection with segregation or racism. Hillary Clinton (I'll presume you voted for her) not only had Robert Byrd as her mentor but she uelegized him at his funeral and praised him beyond words. He was until a few decades ago an avowed racist and a klu klux klan grand dragon. In addition to that she sang Margaret Sangers praises during her campaign for president. She of course started Planned Parenthood to rid the world of the undesireables which she openly labeled as blacks. As a matter of fact she opened her clinics in black neighborhoods to target vulnerable black women. In their own words Arch, not mine.
So maybe if statues are gonna come down and violence visited upon worthless meat sacks who no longer find white hoods fashionable you might contemplate the precedent and how it might further reach unto you, or me, or whomever the mob sets their sights on. This will not end how those participating in it think it will. Revisionist history will not change whats happened, nor our propensity to then repeat it...
ETA: I'm checking out of this thread but hope the debate continues!
Who said anything about rationalizing slavery? Again you see what you've been conditioned/want to see, everyone's rationalizing and stereotypical it would seem but you. Would you have condemned the blacks role in enslaving their own people had I not called it out? Doubtful as you then minimize it by calling it "comical".
And by the way, it's not anywhere near ending in the 50's when they had a dubious connection with segregation or racism. Hillary Clinton (I'll presume you voted for her) not only had Robert Byrd as her mentor but she uelegized him at his funeral and praised him beyond words. He was until a few decades ago an avowed racist and a klu klux klan grand dragon. In addition to that she sang Margaret Sangers praises during her campaign for president. She of course started Planned Parenthood to rid the world of the undesireables which she openly labeled as blacks. As a matter of fact she opened her clinics in black neighborhoods to target vulnerable black women. In their own words Arch, not mine.
So maybe if statues are gonna come down and violence visited upon worthless meat sacks who no longer find white hoods fashionable you might contemplate the precedent and how it might further reach unto you, or me, or whomever the mob sets their sights on. This will not end how those participating in it think it will. Revisionist history will not change whats happened, nor our propensity to then repeat it...
ETA: I'm checking out of this thread but hope the debate continues!
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The confederate Va license plates are no longer available.
They were recalled earlier this year.
If you still see any on the road, they have or are about to expire.
They were recalled earlier this year.
If you still see any on the road, they have or are about to expire.
The Robert E. Lee tag is still one that shows up as an option to purchase and personalize on our DMV site, under "Special Interest" tags; just checked it.
In the entire 8 years of the Obama administration, nobody even noticed that these statues were somehow 'racist'....ever wonder why?
There are powers in play here waay above our heads that are manipulating this for their own purposes...Look at Antifa - pure communists who don't have a clue.
There are powers in play here waay above our heads that are manipulating this for their own purposes...Look at Antifa - pure communists who don't have a clue.
Calls for the removal of the confederate flag stepped up after Daylan Roof gunned down 9 church goers in SC. He called himself a racist and wrapped himself in the flag. The statue issue picked up steam after this incident. But both the flag and statues have long been an issue to the black community.
Louisville, Kentucky — November 19, 2016
Though it never seceded from the Union, the commonwealth of Kentucky was claimed by the Confederacy and now it has more statues commemorating the rebellion than any state that didn’t secede, according to the South Poverty Law Center. One of those, on the University of Louisville campus, was removed and relocated to a small town an hour away.
Boone County, Missouri — September 24, 2015
Forty years before Dylann Roof ignited a debate over Confederate monuments, a giant rock with a small plaque commemorating Confederate soldiers from Boone County was removed from the campus the University of Missouri and relocated the local courthouse. Several months after the massacre in Charleston, it was moved again, this time a historic site commemorating a nearby Civil War battle.
Austin, Texas — August 13, 2015
The momentum to remove the nine-foot-tall, 1,200-pound statue of Jefferson Davis from the UT Austin campus began with the election of a new student-body president, but it was settled after the massacre in Charleston. More than a year after its removal, the statue returned to campus hidden away in a building where students study American history.
And if you are going to move them, the above is the way you do it. All those above were treated with respect and moved to another location. Not torn down in the middle of the night by a bunch of cowards and left laying somewhere to rot.
Along the lines of what skydivr brought up, I can't help but wonder the same - I overheard Nancy Pelosi's very strong comments on the news the other night, that the statues are "reprehensible" and I wondered to myself "Really Nancy? Now to you they are? Why now? Or have they always been?" Her statement comes across as nothing more than political pandering. Why wasn't she making such strong statements YEARS ago, decades ago?
Rhetorical question BTW
Rhetorical question BTW
The Real Story Behind All Those Confederate Statues
Kevin DrumAug. 15, 2017 8:51 PM
Vox points me today to some data I was looking for last night. Thanks, Vox! It’s from the Southern Poverty Law Center, and it shows us when all those Confederate monuments and statues were erected:
This illustrates something that even a lot of liberals don’t always get. Most of these monuments were not erected right after the Civil War. In fact, all the way to 1890 there were very few statues or monuments dedicated to Confederate leaders. Most of them were built much later. And since I’m not an academic, I feel comfortable squeezing this history into a very short, oversimplified summary:
1861-1865: Civil War.
1865-1875: Reconstruction Era.
1875-1895: Reconstruction Era ends. Lynchings skyrocket. Blacks are steadily disenfranchised, allowing Southern whites to enact Jim Crow laws. In 1896, Jim Crow is cemented into place when the Supreme Court rules it constitutional.
1895-1915: With blacks disenfranchised and Jim Crow laws safely in place, Southern whites continue their campaign of terror against blacks. This era features continued lynchings, the growing popularity of “Lost Cause” revisionist histories, a resurgence of white supremacy organizations like the KKK, and the erection of Confederate statues and monuments in large numbers.
1915-1955: Jim Crow reigns safely throughout the South.
1955-1970: The civil rights era starts after the Supreme Court rules in Brown v. Board of Education that Jim Crow laws are unconstitutional. Southern whites mount massive and violent resistance, and start putting up Confederate monuments again.
Yes, these monuments were put up to honor Confederate leaders and soldiers. But the timing of the monument building makes it pretty clear what the real motivation was: to physically symbolize white terror against blacks. They were mostly built during times when Southern whites were engaged in vicious campaigns of subjugation against blacks, and during those campaigns the message sent by a statue of Robert E. Lee in front of a courthouse was loud and clear.
No one should think that these statues were meant to be somber postbellum reminders of a brutal war. They were built much later, and most of them were explicitly created to accompany organized and violent efforts to subdue blacks and maintain white supremacy in the South. I wouldn’t be surprised if even a lot of Southerners don’t really understand this, but they should learn. There’s a reason blacks consider these statues to be symbols of bigotry and terror. It’s because they are.
1busa
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News stated months ago that they were being recalled and discontinued. Dunno.
In the ultimate Twilight Zone event, ESPN pulls Robert Lee (an Asian American) from the announcer position on game coverage of the UVA Cavaliers in Charlottesville. Now that's an over reaction! Lol!
Mother Jones? between it and Salon, which one is more whack-job communist?
Does ANYONE believe CNN is unbiased anymore? The fact is that the public is finally getting it that the liberal diatribe does not make any sense portends the Democrats losing badly in the mid-terms. People are sick and tired of the bias. Let the news state the facts, be clear about when it's OPINION, and let people make up their own minds. When CNN can't even troll a black woman into being critical...people are catching on to the propaganda...and they do NOT agree with Antifa or BLM.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/08...trated-panel-wont-bite-anti-trump-bait-528896
Does ANYONE believe CNN is unbiased anymore? The fact is that the public is finally getting it that the liberal diatribe does not make any sense portends the Democrats losing badly in the mid-terms. People are sick and tired of the bias. Let the news state the facts, be clear about when it's OPINION, and let people make up their own minds. When CNN can't even troll a black woman into being critical...people are catching on to the propaganda...and they do NOT agree with Antifa or BLM.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/08...trated-panel-wont-bite-anti-trump-bait-528896
Exactly. Political Correctness and the press (and whomever is behind it) trying to create and inflame the divide between us is killing our society.
????? Lol!
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