Christmas is For Christ?  NOT!

[Revlis]

(Relsek @ Dec. 12 2006,18:04)

(Revlis @ Dec. 12 2006,21:03)

(Relsek @ Dec. 12 2006,18:01) Merry Christmas Rev, you seem to be a bit worked up.

Good to see you hear Kevin... Not worked up, just a little caffinated.

Ahhh. Do you ever go to Starbucks?

I'm in the Land of Starbucks... But mostly I go to the cafe' here at work and have a little hottie make me a Mocha or something.

Or I make it at home...

 

[Relsek]

(Revlis @ Dec. 12 2006,21:26)

(Relsek @ Dec. 12 2006,18:04)

(Revlis @ Dec. 12 2006,21:03)

(Relsek @ Dec. 12 2006,18:01) Merry Christmas Rev, you seem to be a bit worked up.

Good to see you hear Kevin...  Not worked up, just a little caffinated.  

Ahhh. Do you ever go to Starbucks?

I'm in the Land of Starbucks...  But mostly I go to the cafe' here at work and have a little hottie make me a Mocha or something.

Or I make it at home...

A friend got me started on Starbucks, I can't believe I'm spending 5 bucks for a cup of coffee.

 

[SAMBUSA]

(thrasherfox @ Dec. 12 2006,20:56) Yeah... the date doesnt matter.

As far as I know.. everyone that knows anything about the bible, about God, about Christ, about the birth knows that December 25th is just the day we observe the birth of the Christ. no one knows exactly when Jesus was born.

So for lack of an exact date... December 25th is just as good as any other date to reflect (as dudewizr stated above)

Mary gave birth 6 months after her sister Elizabeth gave birth to John. Elizabeth gave birth in the fall of the year

 

[dudewizr]

(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 12 2006,21:00)

(dudewizr @ Dec. 12 2006,20:49)

(Revlis @ Dec. 12 2006,17:17) Yeah the reason for the season is Christ's Birthday!

WRONG!  

"Christmas" Has NOTHING to DO WITH CHRIST!  The More you swear up and down that it does the sillier you sound.

Go ahead, look it up.   It's the Winter Solstice, a Pagan celebration of the shortest day, marking a return to shorter Nights and more sun and warmth to come...  

Christians Couldn't Murder and Abuse the Pagans into NON-existence so POW here it is a "Christian Holiday".   Oh and BTW, You Pagans?  BAM YOUR Christians, look you even party on the same days...

Easter as well, SAME THING...  

So by all means, Decorate your Pagan Tree!  Hang your PAGAN Wreath, Wrap your PAGAN Gifts, and Set Fire to Your PAGAN Yule LOG, while enjoying your PAGAN Feast!    

AND, Make darn Sure you enjoy your Tree!!!  

Heathens.  

Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Interesting there is NO MENTION of "ChristMas" in the Bible...  Strange huh?  No mention of Wrapping Gifts etc...

How about the Easter Bunny?  NOPE nothing there either.

The Church and Money that's what it is all about...  I see GIANT Singing Christmas trees at Churches and Laugh my a55 off. Here is a Pagan Celebration, endorsed and rubber stamped by the Church.  I find it awesome that even today, Pagan rituals and symbols are featured so heavily in Christianity, especially during Solstice, Equinox etc...  

Funny how so few Christians and their churches look this in the eyes.  I suppose if they did they would have to admit that easter is a Pagan celebration ALSO not about Christ...

You want to put your faith in your Church that is now Slathered in Pagan Symbology and images?  Go ahead.  

You most likely have a Tree in the house and a wreath and lights up somewhere right?  Yup, a house FILLED TO OVERFLOWING, with Pagan ritual and images...  

It's all good, just remember that according to your own Book... "Learn not the way of the heathen"

Bunch of heathens!  

All that being said?  IT SHOULD BE CALLED CHRISTMAS!!!  WHY?

BECAUSE that is what the Majority of Americans want...  This crybaby Bullcrap from every little religious Group and Special interest group SHOULD NOT have the RIGHT to have Trees REMOVED, or Decorations Taking DOWN!

It's Bullcrap and it's NOT what the Majority wants.  Minority Groups and Special interest groups have created a Nation of Victims supported by a legal system that allows it...

It's called DEMOCRACY and it's what the MAJORITY wants.  Not what some self important "Victim" or Victims want.

You don't want to Celebrate a Pagan holiday along with the Majority of America?  DON'T,  Do your Own thing!  But you shouldn't expect the Majority to give a rats bootie about you and your special needs or worry about weather or not you are offended...

Merry Christmas Everyone!  Hugs and Kisses!  Uncle Rev.

Taken just a bit out of context, and here's why.

The prophet Isaiah, when he prophesied of the captivity in Babylon, added warnings against idolatry and largely exposed the sottishness of idolaters, not only because the temptations in Babylon would be in danger of drawing the Jews there to idolatry, but because the afflictions in Babylon were designed to cure them of their idolatry. Thus the prophet Jeremiah here arms people against the idolatrous usages and customs of the heathen, not only for the use of those that had gone to Babylon, but of those also that staid behind, that being convinced and reclaimed, by the word of God, the rod might be prevented; and it is written for our learning. Observe here.

God would not have his people to be dismayed at the signs of heaven, to reverence the stars as deities, nor to frighten themselves with any prognostications grounded upon them. Let them fear the God of heaven, and keep up a reverence of his providence, and then they need not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, for the stars in their courses fight not against any that are at peace with God. The heathen are dismayed at these signs, for they know no better; but let not the house of Israel, that are taught of God, be so.

The way of the heathen is very ridiculous and absurd, and is condemned even by the dictates of right reason, v. 3. The statutes and ordinances of the heathen are vanity itself; they cannot stand the test of a rational disquisition. This is again and again insisted upon here, as it was by Isaiah. The Chaldeans valued themselves upon their wisdom, in which they thought that they excelled all their neighbours; but the prophet here shows that they, and all others that worshipped idols and expected help and relief from them, were brutish and sottish, and had not common sense. (1.) Consider what the idol is that is worshipped. It was a tree cut out of the forest originally. It was fitted up by the hands of the workman, squared, and sawed, and worked into shape; see Isa. 44:12, etc. But, after all, it was but the stock of a tree, fitter to make a gate-post of than any thing else. But, to hide the wood, they deck it with silver and gold, they gild or lacquer it, or they deck it with gold and silver lace, or cloth of tissue.

We are warned not to conform to the ways of the heathens.
  1.  The heathens regarded teh stars (signs of the heavens) as deities.
  2.  They worshipped idols expecting relief from them.

I put a tree up but have yet to worship it, kneel to it or expect any relief from it, and certainly do not revere any of the stars, moon or any other signs of heaven as deity.  Nor does anyone I know.  My adherence to any customs is not based upon any seasons such as winter solstice.  IN fact I could care less about the day, the date or anything else.  It is a period of time each year in which I use to reflect upon the gift of Christ and the many other blessings from God.  I then consider these gifts as an example of how Christ would expect us to give to others who may be in need.  It is a time of reflection, thanksgiving and celebration of life eternal not an annual call to action.  AGAPE Love doesn't have a season.

By putting the tree in your house and decorating it, you are, in a sense, worshiping it just as the heathens did.

You talk about it being a time to reflect the gift of Christ, etc.  Why not do this year round?  You are right AGAPE love has no season, but why is Christmas the only "season" it's practiced?[/Quote]
I reflect continually and that's called worship however I do reflect in a different manner during Christmas. There's a time to play the game and a time to review film but that doen't mean you stop being a football player. I agree many people have different views of Christmas andI can't do anything about that. But for many this is the only time of the year they show any compassion and if it takes an inaccurate placement of Christs birth to do that then so be it.

 

[dudewizr]

(Revlis @ Dec. 12 2006,21:02) Well Said, Though I am curious as to Dudewizers source for his information.

I absolutely forgot to post my source as being from Matthew Henry's Commentary. But I'm sure you have a really fascinating conspiracy theory of Henry and how he is just trying to control people subconciously through this twisted religious propaganda, or something like that.

Maybe try studying the bible through the spirit as opposed to just quoting certain parts to support your views, because even homosexuals misquote scripture to support their lifestyles.

 

[SAMBUSA]

Dude,

Dont you find that pathetic? "Cafeteria Christians" only acting religious on holidays. Only going to church twice a year - Easter and Christmas. Holidays that were only changed by the Catholic church to Christian holidays in order to justify celebrating them. I have never celebrated Easter and never will. I observe the Passover but a bunny that lays eggs, come on!

 

[dudewizr]

(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 12 2006,22:37) Dude,

Dont you find that pathetic?  "Cafeteria Christians"  only acting religious on holidays.  Only going to church twice a year - Easter and Christmas.  Holidays that were only changed by the Catholic church to Christian holidays in order to justify celebrating them.  I have never celebrated Easter and never will.  I observe the Passover but a bunny that lays eggs, come on!

I too was what I call a holiday Christian, going to church on holidays only. Usually hing over because for me the holiday also meant PARTY! But that was before I accepted Christ. So while it would be easy to view it as pathetic I actually find it to be sad. They just don't know.

What I do find pathetic is people who rant and rave about something they claim not to beleive or support just to get a rise out of those who do beleive. I'm not singling out anyone on this board but I have seen many rants and raves in newspapers and many other websites downgrading Christmas and persecuting Christians for their belief. Yet they don't have aproblem getting a paid day off, and some cool stuff from friends or family an dthey certainly don't have a problem using it as another excuse to go out on the town and party. I mean I don't believe in UFO's but I don't go around studying them and coming up in theories to dispute them and couldn't even carry on a coversation about them. I just don't believe in them and that is it. To do just that would be PATHETIC.

 

[shortBoarder]

wow, two pages on this thread and it hasn't degraded into a completly useless pissing match...

the .org continues to impress.....

 

[SAMBUSA]

(dudewizr @ Dec. 12 2006,22:48)

(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 12 2006,22:37) Dude,

Dont you find that pathetic?  "Cafeteria Christians"  only acting religious on holidays.  Only going to church twice a year - Easter and Christmas.  Holidays that were only changed by the Catholic church to Christian holidays in order to justify celebrating them.  I have never celebrated Easter and never will.  I observe the Passover but a bunny that lays eggs, come on!

I too was what I call a holiday Christian, going to church on holidays only.  Usually hing over because for me the holiday also meant PARTY! But that was before I accepted Christ.  So while it would be easy to view it as pathetic I actually find it to be sad.  They just don't know.

What I do find pathetic is people who rant and rave about something they claim not to beleive or support just to get a rise out of those who do beleive.  I'm not singling out anyone on this board but I have seen many rants and raves in newspapers and many other websites downgrading Christmas and persecuting Christians for their belief.  Yet they don't have aproblem getting a paid day off, and some cool stuff from friends or family an dthey certainly don't have a problem using it as another excuse to go out on the town and party.  I mean I don't believe in UFO's but I don't go around studying them and coming up in theories to dispute them and couldn't even carry on a coversation about them.  I just don't believe in them and that is it.  To do just that would be PATHETIC.

Sad is a better way to describe it. I just have a hard time understanding. How can they profess to be Christian but only go to church two days a year? That is sad.

Maybe we should just follow Elton John and ban all religions world wide in order to have peace. Knew this one was coming, just wonder when the govt will start saying the same thing. It will happen, its just a matter of when

 

[thrasherfox]

(dudewizr @ Dec. 12 2006,19:30)

(Revlis @ Dec. 12 2006,21:02) Well Said, Though I am curious as to Dudewizers source for his information.

I absolutely forgot to post my source as being from Matthew Henry's Commentary. But I'm sure you have a really fascinating conspiracy theory of Henry and how he is just trying to control people subconciously through this twisted religious propaganda, or something like that.

Maybe try studying the bible through the spirit as opposed to just quoting certain parts to support your views, because even homosexuals misquote scripture to support their lifestyles.

 

[BigmanZ]

One of the reasons why I don't like religion and simply view it as being a means for generally evil people to coerce fools. Take the belief system of Satanism, has been around long before Christianity came about...yet oddly enough the devil's name is Satan. Both have no simularities to each other other then the fact that Satanism merely scoffed at all religions...bam, the evil 'god' of Christianity is named Satan. Then the percieved image of what Satan is supposed to look like happens to match the image of the Forest Spirit the Wiccans worship. Christmas? Easter? Ya, used to be on the days of Christ's birth but they changed them to co-incide with the pagan celebrations to basically coerce them into worshiping Christianity.

In my eyes, religion has been corrupted by man for too long and is still being corrupted. What ever path they may have been on, has been lost long ago. I no longer have religion, merely faith in God and hope that he may someday steer us right once again.

 

[dadofthree]

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[CrashBomb]

(BigmanZ @ Dec. 13 2006,03:24) ...yet oddly enough the devil's name is Satan.

That's actually a misquote, his name is Stan...Stan Palovitch, he lives just down the road from me. Nice guy. Says he has absolutely no idea where all this good and evil and fall of man and eternal fire stuff came from, but he's just this guy that works at the plant over on the other side of the interstate. And he says if you could all stop sending him all this hate mail it would be nice because it upsets his wife and her cat.

As for the Christmas and Easter/Pagan connection, some memorable Eddie Izzard wit...
"And Jesus was born...to a big jolly guy in a red suit...
-Ho ho ho, baby Jesus. And what would you like for
Christmas?
-I want peace on earth and goodwill towards men.
-Well......how 'bout a clockwork train?
-Oh yes, that's much better. Forget peace, I don't care. *train noises*"

"So Jesus died on the cross...and now the children eat chocolate eggs to celebrate...because the...color of the chocolate...and the...color...of the wood...right?...on the cross? right?....................................
Ok well you tell me then."

 

[LadyHawk]

Merry Christmas Rev!!

 

[VaBusa]

(Revlis @ Dec. 12 2006,20)

(RaveCrusader @ Dec. 12 2006,17:30)

(Revlis @ Dec. 12 2006,15:06) Weird huh, as much as I am Anti-Everything...

How exactly can one be anti-everything?

I dunno Bbut Now I'm anti...YOU.    

But ask VaBusa, I think she pointed it out once or twice.

Hey now, what did I do?!

Merry Christmas Rev!

 

[Wag]

(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 12 2006,19:00) By putting the tree in your house and decorating it, you are, in a sense, worshiping it just as the heathens did.

You talk about it being a time to reflect the gift of Christ, etc. Why not do this year round? You are right AGAPE love has no season, but why is Christmas the only "season" it's practiced?

Foul.

Ref, kick this guy outta the game!

Just kidding, just kidding!

By that logic, though, you're saying that if I put a photo of my sister in my home, I'm worshipping her? Or if my wife puts little figurines of horses in the house that she worships them? I have a little buddha in my house that was given to me as a gift. I don't worship it. Nor do I think it will do anything good or evil for me 'cause it's just a hunk o' wood!

There are thousands of different reasons why people put 'things' in their homes and worship and reverence are but a couple of them!

--Wag--

 

[Postal]

If I ride my Busa on Christmas day am I considered a Pagan Busa-riding Christian?

 

[Revlis]

(dudewizr @ Dec. 12 2006,19:48)

(Black Bird Killer @ Dec. 12 2006,22:37) Dude,

Dont you find that pathetic? "Cafeteria Christians" only acting religious on holidays. Only going to church twice a year - Easter and Christmas. Holidays that were only changed by the Catholic church to Christian holidays in order to justify celebrating them. I have never celebrated Easter and never will. I observe the Passover but a bunny that lays eggs, come on!

I too was what I call a holiday Christian, going to church on holidays only. Usually hing over because for me the holiday also meant PARTY! But that was before I accepted Christ. So while it would be easy to view it as pathetic I actually find it to be sad. They just don't know.

What I do find pathetic is people who rant and rave about something they claim not to beleive or support just to get a rise out of those who do beleive. I'm not singling out anyone on this board but I have seen many rants and raves in newspapers and many other websites downgrading Christmas and persecuting Christians for their belief. Yet they don't have aproblem getting a paid day off, and some cool stuff from friends or family an dthey certainly don't have a problem using it as another excuse to go out on the town and party. I mean I don't believe in UFO's but I don't go around studying them and coming up in theories to dispute them and couldn't even carry on a coversation about them. I just don't believe in them and that is it. To do just that would be PATHETIC.

"Don't want to single anyone out"

"conspiracy theories"


Why so ready to be on the defensive regarding a source? That tells me right away that you do not really trust or have faith in the source either. It sounded special certainly, but I wasn't going to go into it, I just wanted to find out who had made the interpretation of a re-written document that was both lucid and so carefully packaged and easy to digest.

I dislike the fact that EVERY TIME a "Christian" wants to use the Bible for their own benefit, he/she can quote parts of passages or single passages and it's not a problem. However, ANY TIME someone quotes some of the evil screwed up stuff that has YET to be edited out of the Bible, the "saved" immediately cry "CONTEXT, You're taking it out of Context." Your use of some guys theories and interpretations as a valid CONTEXT, to show how misguided what I quoted was is silly, your going to back up your claim that you know better because This GUY---> said so? OK Yeah.

I've never understood ANYONE accepting hook line and sinker what a preacher/priest/pastor/etc... states as the word of god. Do they have a Hotline to God? Isn't it true that we are all allowed and capable of speaking directly to the Lord in Prayer? Don't get me wrong, I've met plenty that were really great people, but when they start interpreting "the word" for me I find it just as silly as relying on the evening news to give me a fair and unbiased explanation of the days events. It's impossible for me to sit and listen to a man in robes give me his version of a book that he himself has made a living out of. It's in his best interests to make it topical, to interpret the book in a way that he knows will appeal to his "Flock"...

Sure this has been discussed many times, YES I bring it up now and again because usually, if I continue to post or not, the discussion remains useful and there are fresh ideas and insights provided from old and new members.

This particular thread was spawned by a "Holiday Christian" (I'm going to put that right next to fashion Christian) going off in the Cafe about how folks have forgotten about the reasons for the Christmas Trees at Sea-Tac.. I mentioned the Pagan origins and pointed out that much of the symbology associated with the Holiday has pagan origins.

I guess it was too much for him to digest and even though I was far more subtle than I am here he got offended... No ANGRY about it and called me a... ready? A d!ck.

He he... So yeah, then I started this thread.

Do I dislike Christians? No, if I did I'd be in a very unhappy place, heck my family is packed full of em' and most of my friends are Christians.

BUT

I cannot stand the "Fashion or Holiday Christian" The Church I went to with my family back in the day was full of the traditional fashion christians. Get all prettied up and lets show everyone what good little boys N girls we are and how pretty our expensive clothes and car is. It was a parade of sorts. Faith worn as an accessory when it suits them. They've got Fish Bumper stickers, and "In Case Of Rapture" stupidity license frames. BAH...

Sure this was a rant, you bet. But in this case mostly I wanted folks to wake up to the reality of the Holiday, that it's origins and symbology are NOT Christian. I get so tired of hearing about "The reason for the Season" Blah Blah Blah... This has to do with my home life. I don't believe that my Mom is a fashion Christian, no I believe she has true faith. But it's the unquestioning faith the kind of faith that actually believes that the 25th (or thereabouts) was actually when Christ was born. Heck pretty sure that most Christians do not realize that the "Christmas Carols" are NOT gospel and that Christ has nothing to do with the season.

Thrasher said something like, "this date was as good as any"...

Agreed, seeing as how Saturlina was in force, and Pagans were running wild, it is easier to simply glaze over the reality with some fairy tales and work that Pagan symbology and ceremony into a pair of Good Christian Pants.

Never Claimed NOT to believe in God, I just don't believe in carefully packaged, USDA Choice Christianity. I don't believe that I have to attend church three times a week, I don't believe that priests who molest children should be free to walk to the streets, I don't believe that a Man or women standing in front of me making a living by shaking money out of the pockets of the flock can be trusted. I do believe the Catholic church to be an evil, twisted, power and money hungry abomination. (Well before the DaVinci Code)

I believe that each time I bring this up I learn more. A6, Kevin, WWJD all have provided Ideas and insight that have really made a difference.

I find that by being a little dramatic and OTT that folks get a little irritated and start posting how they really FEEL, what they really think...

Just like you, "persecuting Christians for their belief." I am using a bit of drama to hopefully stir up a useful discussion if not a debate. Persecuting Christians, oh thats funny stuff... Especially in a Country where 90% claim to be Christian... He he, I don't see any lions.

 

[ks-waterbug]

For My  Left-Wing Friends:

"Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. We also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the of the generally accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere. And without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishes. By accepting these greetings you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for herself or himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher."

For My Conservative Friends:    

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

 

[Revlis]

(dudewizr @ Dec. 12 2006,19:30)

(Revlis @ Dec. 12 2006,21:02) Well Said, Though I am curious as to Dudewizers source for his information.

I absolutely forgot to post my source as being from Matthew Henry's Commentary. But I'm sure you have a really fascinating conspiracy theory of Henry and how he is just trying to control people subconciously through this twisted religious propaganda, or something like that.

Maybe try studying the bible through the spirit as opposed to just quoting certain parts to support your views, because even homosexuals misquote scripture to support their lifestyles.

Assumptions, Backhanded insults and Homophobia... All rolled into one...

OK, Good to find that the standard issue, holier than thou (Literally), "I am enlightened, your obviously misguided", Christian defensive posture is still in action...

Wait Wait.... Next UP, [booming voice] "THE JUDGEMENT" [/booming voice]


He he he..

Never heard of this Matthew Henry guy though, must be Extra Special...