Cold weather presents an opportunity to slide safely

[Tufbusa]

Jellyman, I'll let you stick to your high school physics. When your lean angle reaches the level of 1G (Send me a photo) of lateral force we can talk about motorcycles and how they function. Until then, arguing with you is like arguing with a fence post!

 

[jellyrug]

Jellyman, I'll let you stick to your high school physics. When your lean angle reaches the level of 1G (Send me a photo) of lateral force we can talk about motorcycles and how they function. Until then, arguing with you is like arguing with a fence post!

Not gonna happen, gotten too old to race track among the young fella's. Last time I felt like a grandpa racing with kids.

But I do know that the width of a tire on a race bike needs to be just enough so it holds up for a entire MotoGp race, which remains a challenge and I do know why we do not fit fat tires on the front to try and increase traction.

 

[Blrry]

IG,

If you go to tire manufacturers, don't mention me. I don't want to be laughed at. You've already presented your anchors to at least four motorcycle websites and the ONLY positive reply came from a stunt rider website where one guy said it might make bunny hops easier.

Res Ipsa loquitor - if your idea worked, people would be using it already. Racers, racer wanna be, track and street guys don't want to touch it, ergo, it does not work. It is not well thought out or presented well enough that they even want to try. *You* like it! but it's the testimonial of a rabid, argumentative inventor. Not gonna move a lot of units, bud. Let it die.

You move on to new and fresh fallacious arguments and don't bother to address or correct those pointed out, as if you're trying to bury your debaters in volume since you lack quality. You've lost the argument.

I'll let your astounding success speak for itself: Zero converts to your brilliant, tragically misunderstood invention.

Finally, congratulations, you're the manliest man because you ride in the cold, and assume most don't. Yet you're not manly enough to ride in the wet. Then you crow about how, since 'most' of us don't ride in the cold, and you do, that we may have never encountered a cold tar snake, and you have, and these are your unassailable opinions on them. Well, if your assertion were true, you're preaching to people who 1. Don't ride in the cold - so they don't care and won't encounter tar snakes, and 2. those with more experience than you are mocked for it when they have differing opinions. You must be a helluva guy to live with, always being right in your own mind and never able to concede a point.

I rode every day I lived in Seattle for 5 years, cold and wet and dry and sunny. It's a tar snake. If you're on the road, you know what they feel like. Sorry your epiphany wasn't quite as inspiring to anyone else as you thought it should be. Like the foot anchors...

 

[jellyrug]

IG,

If you go to tire manufacturers, don't mention me. I don't want to be laughed at. You've already presented your anchors to at least four motorcycle websites and the ONLY positive reply came from a stunt rider website where one guy said it might make bunny hops easier.

Res Ipsa loquitor - if your idea worked, people would be using it already. Racers, racer wanna be, track and street guys don't want to touch it, ergo, it does not work. It is not well thought out or presented well enough that they even want to try. *You* like it! but it's the testimonial of a rabid, argumentative inventor. Not gonna move a lot of units, bud. Let it die.

You move on to new and fresh fallacious arguments and don't bother to address or correct those pointed out, as if you're trying to bury your debaters in volume since you lack quality. You've lost the argument.

I'll let your astounding success speak for itself: Zero converts to your brilliant, tragically misunderstood invention.

Finally, congratulations, you're the manliest man because you ride in the cold, and assume most don't. Yet you're not manly enough to ride in the wet. Then you crow about how, since 'most' of us don't ride in the cold, and you do, that we may have never encountered a cold tar snake, and you have, and these are your unassailable opinions on them. Well, if your assertion were true, you're preaching to people who 1. Don't ride in the cold - so they don't care and won't encounter tar snakes, and 2. those with more experience than you are mocked for it when they have differing opinions. You must be a helluva guy to live with, always being right in your own mind and never able to concede a point.

I rode every day I lived in Seattle for 5 years, cold and wet and dry and sunny. It's a tar snake. If you're on the road, you know what they feel like. Sorry your epiphany wasn't quite as inspiring to anyone else as you thought it should be. Like the foot anchors...

I hate tar snakes. Let's increase gas taxes, tag fees, double citation rates, slap toll fees on all interstates, so we can have enough money to resurface all the roads in the good o'l USA and have nothing left to argue about, no more tar snakes.

 

[Blrry]

I'd be happy if they'd just apply the gas and other road taxes we have to road maintenance instead of funneling it off to pet liberal causes...

 

[IG.]

The issue you have with me IG is that you can't blow smoke up my arse and call it a bong!

After reading your post above, it appears to me that you barely understand the basics of motorcycle control. Push left, lean left, go left, push right, lean right, go right seems to be your limit. Understanding the inputs to feed your bike then understanding how the bike responds to those given inputs seems to be a process that has completely evaded you thus far. Cornering is a process, not an event.

The issue is not what you don't know, it's the fact that so much of what you do know is simply not true.

Tuf, this is another collection of general statements. While you do profess that you know how to apply all these inputs, you tend to keep it a secret. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I barely understand how the bike responds. You didn't provide a single example with which you disagree, but you put out a really expanded statement how little I understand. Unfortunately, a very typical response. I am sure you are a much more proficient rider than I am, and I would love to learn from you, however you seem to be unable to articulate your knowledge in a way that I can comprehend it. Being defensive seems to be your theme.

I'll tell you what. I am concerned that Blrry is having another headache... LOL. I like a good argument, however, I follow a simple set of rules... always trying to be respectful and understand the other side, and trying to articulate my point as clearly and logically as I can. Having said that, there is no point to continue after any one of the following mutually exclusive conditions is met...

1. I learned something new which resolves the argument.
2. I uncovered a problem either with my side of the argument, or with the opposing side of the argument.
3. The other side consistently presents incoherent, outside the point arguments, jumping all over the place.

From my standpoint, condition 3 is true, and this discussion is no longer productive. I am perfectly comfortable if others think of me as slow, unaware, not understanding anything about riding, and full of silly ideas.

Peace out...

 

[IG.]

Blrry, I was hoping you would feel better today, but you seem to be more irritated. I am very concerned about you, and trying to wrap it up. Let's recall your last post in about a year. As I pointed out, there is nothing else I could add besides what I said. No one commented on Rossi video - as I expected. Your logic is simple - you ride in the cold, therefore most people ride in the cold. It is a typical human behavior - to assume about others what is true about you. I easily agree with a logical argument. You seem to be having the same trouble as others staying on point and follow logical reasoning. That's in big part why things are dragging along. But as I indicated in my previous post, this discussion became unproductive, and we need to wrap this up - I hope to your delight. Feel better my friend.

 

[sixpack577]

Agree with IG on that one.... I don't see how ABS would play a factor in this situation. Traction control I can see it aiding you in recovering the wash out but not ABS. Even with traction control, ABS, and L.E.D. Cup holders none of them will help you if you are mid turn/leaned and your azz end washes out on you and immediately lock brakes and attempt 2 stand the bike up. You might be lucky @ 35mph but if your going a good clip in2 a turn you still have 2 maintain control of the motorcycle, no gadget is gonna replace skill & composure. Not an expert but only giving my opinion based off my experiences.

Ima call BS on this one.
If you mount that led cupholder on one of the frame sliders it most certainly may help in a lowside

I'm still looking at 1k's, and am going to put dirtbike bars on when I get another, I think I'll go for a cupholder this time

 

[jellyrug]

IG, I'm always scared a Tar Snake is gonna swallow me, and no place for anchors on my Kawasaki, they just don't fit.

How do my corner entry compare to Rossi though?

 

[Tufbusa]

Just so you know, you are far more likely to loose traction on the front than you are on the rear since the rear contact patch is almost twice the size of the front. According to you, loose traction on the front and Game Over! However, you have some sort of magical tar snake touch that keeps your front anchored while the rear "Slides" around. REALLY?

I'm not into tar snakes and foot anchors, but provided there are no rubber overheating issues, why do think a larger contact patch gives better traction? Experience, explain exactly how you determine that? Or, physics which do not agree with your notion?

Some things to ponder:

The larger the contact patch on the SAME tire (same inflation pressure) becomes, the better the traction, because we have to increase the force between pavement and rubber to enlarge the patch (rubber deflects), hence better traction.

I think we tried discussing this before?

You've been taking lessons from Igor way too long. Had you been hitting the bottle or the bong when you went on your rambling challenge of my alleged stupid insinuation that YOUR motorcycle had more traction on the rear than the front? Then have the audacity to make such a statement that all things being equal (the subject was about cornering on tar snakes) the front tire would loose traction first.

You based your entire argument on both tires being the same. Then googled Isaac Newton who began with "The larger the contact patch on the SAME tire"! Apparently at this point you haven't figured out that your busa has a tire that is considerably larger on the rear?

As I stated earlier, arguing with you is like arguing with a stump.

 

[fallenarch]

I'd be happy if they'd just apply the gas and other road taxes we have to road maintenance instead of funneling it off to pet liberal causes...

I don't know about snakes I just want curbs I can ride on that are painted white with red stripes!

 

[fallenarch]

Tuf, this is another collection of general statements. While you do profess that you know how to apply all these inputs, you tend to keep it a secret. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I barely understand how the bike responds. You didn't provide a single example with which you disagree, but you put out a really expanded statement how little I understand. Unfortunately, a very typical response. I am sure you are a much more proficient rider than I am, and I would love to learn from you, however you seem to be unable to articulate your knowledge in a way that I can comprehend it. Being defensive seems to be your theme.

I'll tell you what. I am concerned that Blrry is having another headache... LOL. I like a good argument, however, I follow a simple set of rules... always trying to be respectful and understand the other side, and trying to articulate my point as clearly and logically as I can. Having said that, there is no point to continue after any one of the following mutually exclusive conditions is met...

1. I learned something new which resolves the argument.
2. I uncovered a problem either with my side of the argument, or with the opposing side of the argument.
3. The other side consistently presents incoherent, outside the point arguments, jumping all over the place.

From my standpoint, condition 3 is true, and this discussion is no longer productive. I am perfectly comfortable if others think of me as slow, unaware, not understanding anything about riding, and full of silly ideas.

Peace out...

He can articulate it you just to pay for the track day........ ???

 

[fallenarch]

IG, I'm always scared a Tar Snake is gonna swallow me, and no place for anchors on my Kawasaki, they just don't fit.

How do my corner entry compare to Rossi though?

This looks like me on the busa with my new leathers.......

 

[fallenarch]

Dammit I missed an argument and a chance to call IG and Tuff names!

First of all there is no reason to ride a bike when it is below 40 degrees unless you don't have any other option. A) it's even more dangerous than usual and B) riding sucks when you are constricted in 10 layers of clothes. Second, if you ride year round like I do the fall and winter mean squiggles from the rear end for all sorts of reasons: leaves, water, cold tires, sand left over from a snow, etc. So if you really know what you are doing, you don't go out challenging a road in weather below 40 degrees. Generally I ride in these conditions like Jellyrug always rides. Seriously I keep the lean angles down, slow down, never ask too much of the tires, roll on the power later exiting a turn, look especially hard for road surface issues, etc.

As for sliding I grew up riding dirt bikes so seeing the rear end trying to get where you are going first was typical. It's a little scarier on the street because you have to be ready for the rear hooking up again and sending you flying over the bars. Funny but I have been tossed up in the air about a foot after sliding through some sand in a turn and then hitting clean pavement. I guess my 300 lbs saved me because if I was 160 lbs I would have been ejected clean off the bike.

 

[1busa]

This looks like me on the busa with my new leathers.......

 

[1busa]

Ima call BS on this one.
If you mount that led cupholder on one of the frame sliders it most certainly may help in a lowside

I'm still looking at 1k's, and am going to put dirtbike bars on when I get another, I think I'll go for a cupholder this time

Yeah so you can take a sip of your double mocha choca expresso while riding on a tar snake!!!

 

[IG.]

Dammit I missed an argument and a chance to call IG and Tuff names!

First of all there is no reason to ride a bike when it is below 40 degrees unless you don't have any other option. A) it's even more dangerous than usual and B) riding sucks when you are constricted in 10 layers of clothes. Second, if you ride year round like I do the fall and winter mean squiggles from the rear end for all sorts of reasons: leaves, water, cold tires, sand left over from a snow, etc. So if you really know what you are doing, you don't go out challenging a road in weather below 40 degrees. Generally I ride in these conditions like Jellyrug always rides. Seriously I keep the lean angles down, slow down, never ask too much of the tires, roll on the power later exiting a turn, look especially hard for road surface issues, etc.

As for sliding I grew up riding dirt bikes so seeing the rear end trying to get where you are going first was typical. It's a little scarier on the street because you have to be ready for the rear hooking up again and sending you flying over the bars. Funny but I have been tossed up in the air about a foot after sliding through some sand in a turn and then hitting clean pavement. I guess my 300 lbs saved me because if I was 160 lbs I would have been ejected clean off the bike.

Another option? I have to ride - there is no other option. Above 30 isn't so bad - just a few layers and a neck warmer, winter gloves. 25 and below - that's 10 layers, and still the cold gets to you pretty quickly. The throat my freeze a bit because the stream of cold air sips through.

One day, I will get heated gear - then, it will be nice and cozy. Certainly have to scale back on aggressiveness, but there is plenty of traction to have fun. I would venture to say that at 40 dry there is more traction than at 70 wet. Keeping tire pressure at around 30 helps.

One good thing - there no bugs, and the faceshield stays clean.

Any riding is better than no riding. Definitely gotta watch for debris/potholes on the road... but once in a while there are decent conditions, and it feels sooooo good to be on the bike. I learned snowboarding recently, and when it's so bad that snow is everywhere, I'd go snowboarding. It's almost the same - lean into turns, same forces in complete balance, and falling down is a lot less painful. LOL

Switching gears... at 300 lb, you are still debating with yourself on a turbo thingy?

It was around 45 last Friday, and a certain Camaro wanted to have some fun. And fun it was... for me and a friend on the beemer.

 

[1busa]

When you talk about layers in 25 degree weather on a bike I instantly think of Ralphies kid brother from Christmas Story!!



Can't even put your arms down by your sides and kinda waddle over to your bike.... how you manage 2 swing your leg over your busa is beyond me ???

 

[IG.]

You nailed it, LOL. It ain't so bad, but it takes an effort to mount the bike. But once you open her up, it's all worth it. I am sure folks on the road may roll their eyes - never had a chance to ask, too busy hauling.

Let's see... under shirt, thermal underwear, extra pair of thick socks, warm shirt, motorcycle wind breaker, neck warmer, inner gloves, winter gloves, leather suit, riding boots. Zip it all up, barely breathing and almost sweating from all the effort/layers.... but having a blast (of fun, and cold air) minutes later... coming back with a frozen smile, barely feeling fingers and toes, but happy.

 

[jellyrug]

Just so you know, you are far more likely to loose traction on the front than you are on the rear since the rear contact patch is almost twice the size of the front. According to you, loose traction on the front and Game Over! However, you have some sort of magical tar snake touch that keeps your front anchored while the rear "Slides" around. REALLY?



You've been taking lessons from Igor way too long. Had you been hitting the bottle or the bong when you went on your rambling challenge of my alleged stupid insinuation that YOUR motorcycle had more traction on the rear than the front? Then have the audacity to make such a statement that all things being equal (the subject was about cornering on tar snakes) the front tire would loose traction first.

You based your entire argument on both tires being the same. Then googled Isaac Newton who began with "The larger the contact patch on the SAME tire"! Apparently at this point you haven't figured out that your busa has a tire that is considerably larger on the rear?

As I stated earlier, arguing with you is like arguing with a stump.

Losing traction on the front and the back can be fun and actually put you around a slow turn faster, provided you know what you are doing. Tell you what, if you can point your Google at Isaac Newton and find anything he ever said about a "tire contact patch", I will pay for all your students, for the next track session, even if you tell them this BS about bigger tires giving better traction.