EV vehicles

[Oz22]

That being said, I still believe that auto companies don't sink billions of dollars into a technology which works and then throws it away...

Well you'd think that, in a normal world, where things are rational. Did you know that the ICE manufacturers were being punished, to the tune of billions in carbon taxes? It's one reason I believe that the big players started their EV programs. Another is simple marketing, their image as innovative EV developers did wonders for sales of all vehicles and especially stock prices. Very much like what we saw in the 1990's where companies rebranded themselves .com even thought they had little or nothing to do with internet sales. It saw their stock prices soar as people believed they were innovative companies joining the "New" wave, the transition to IT.

2 or 3 billion in R&D is nothing for a big mob like Ford or BMW, VW. A tax write-off that gave them greenie points. Here, not a commonly known fact

Tesla’s Carbon Credit Revenue Soars to $2.76 Billion Amid Profit Drop​

January 30, 2025 Tesla’s profits took a hit in 2024, dropping 23%. But one revenue stream kept surging—carbon credit sales. The carmaker reached a new record in selling regulatory credits, recording a 54% jump from 2023. As the EV market evolves and emissions rules tighten, can Tesla keep profiting from carbon credits? Many analysts once predicted that Tesla’s carbon credit windfall would shrink as other automakers ramped up EV production. In 2020, then-CFO Zachary Kirkhorn warned investors against relying too heavily on regulatory credit revenue... ttps://carboncredits.com/teslas-carbon-credit-revenue-soars-to-2-76-billion-amid-profit-drop/

It's a convoluted system where Tesla earns credits for being green and sells them to non-green manufacturers for a huge profit. If the ICE makers can't show they have credits they get heavy penalties. It's all part of a scheme to force BB, into an EV

 

[Bumblebee]

Well you'd think that, in a normal world, where things are rational. Did you know that the ICE manufacturers were being punished, to the tune of billions in carbon taxes? It's one reason I believe that the big players started their EV programs. Another is simple marketing, their image as innovative EV developers did wonders for sales of all vehicles and especially stock prices. Very much like what we saw in the 1990's where companies rebranded themselves .com even thought they had little or nothing to do with internet sales. It saw their stock prices soar as people believed they were innovative companies joining the "New" wave, the transition to IT.

2 or 3 billion in R&D is nothing for a big mob like Ford or BMW, VW. A tax write-off that gave them greenie points. Here, not a commonly known fact

Tesla’s Carbon Credit Revenue Soars to $2.76 Billion Amid Profit Drop​

January 30, 2025 Tesla’s profits took a hit in 2024, dropping 23%. But one revenue stream kept surging—carbon credit sales. The carmaker reached a new record in selling regulatory credits, recording a 54% jump from 2023. As the EV market evolves and emissions rules tighten, can Tesla keep profiting from carbon credits? Many analysts once predicted that Tesla’s carbon credit windfall would shrink as other automakers ramped up EV production. In 2020, then-CFO Zachary Kirkhorn warned investors against relying too heavily on regulatory credit revenue... ttps://carboncredits.com/teslas-carbon-credit-revenue-soars-to-2-76-billion-amid-profit-drop/

It's a convoluted system where Tesla earns credits for being green and sells them to non-green manufacturers for a huge profit. If the ICE makers can't show they have credits they get heavy penalties. It's all part of a scheme to force BB, into an EV

There's no doubt there's some sort of profitable kick back to everything unfortunately........and to think Tesla is profiting from this is far from surprising....

Too bad that such things get in the way of technological breakthroughs......IF EV became more viable, I could see them being a good alternative for city dwellers....maybe.....or places with a temperate climate......it would be nice if India or Pakistan would embrace more EV......you can cut the air in their cities with a knife....

 

[Red05]

I have an el cheapo plug in electric leaf blower that is awesome.....

I only use it around the garage and to blow the snow off my vehicles and water when I wash them in the summer and for that it works great....

Even a few of my neighbors went out and bought the same inexpensive model to blow off their vehicles after seeing me use mine.

Another neighbor has a battery powered grass trimmer and he bought another battery because after 2 summers the original wasn't able to last for half his trimming needs...

I can’t use a plug in blower; I’m on 2/3rds of an acre with a lot of mature trees and flower beds. That neighbor should have bought a 40v Kobalt weedeater. It’s the best tool I own. I weedeat for about an hour and a half a week and the battery is going on 4 years of running the trimmer, chain saw, pole saw and push mower. It’s a 5ah battery and it kicks butt.

 

[Bumblebee]

That neighbor should have bought a 40v Kobalt weedeater. It’s the best tool I own. I weedeat for about an hour and a half a week and the battery is going on 4 years of running the trimmer, chain saw, pole saw and push mower. It’s a 5ah battery and it kicks butt.

I think his is a 40v Dewalt........

 

[Red05]

I think his is a 40v Dewalt........

I’m anal about only charging the battery when it’s down to one indicator light, and keeping the charger and battery indoors. A lot of people don’t follow manufacturer’s directions and then complain when things go poorly.

 

[Bumblebee]

I’m anal about only charging the battery when it’s down to one indicator light, and keeping the charger and battery indoors. A lot of people don’t follow manufacturer’s directions and then complain when things go poorly.

I do the same with my battery powered equipment (drills, impacts, etc). My little 18v batteries have a pretty good life....

As this neighbor is a young guy who has little experience with anything powered, I imagine his battery doesn't get looked after properly.....

 

[Oz22]

I have an el cheapo plug in electric leaf blower that is awesome.....

Too right, electricity off the mains is the best way as long as the cord reaches. Here we had a mains, 240V, mower that used basically whipper snipper line and floated on an air cushion. It was a pain on sloping yards though. I have two commercial gas leaf blowers and 3 Ryobi 18V ones. One rechargeable, the weakest, is upstairs to blow off the front and back balconies, the serious one is for the garage area and a couple of the downstairs rooms -easier than a vacuum- but the Gas ones are for the yard, driveways and street.

Rattle guns, nail guns, small metal grinders, they are better on Lipo than compressor or mains I recon. I have come to the logical conclusion that there is an practical upper limit on the size of the motor that lends itself to conversion over to rechargeable electric. Go beyond that and the downsides outweigh the benefits. To me the 750W~1500W bicycle is that limit, but even they are a novelty unless you use pedal assist, human power to augment the battery. I don't! And my trips are limited or hills avoided. All the limitations to batteries start when you go mobile.

 

[Oz22]

I do the same with my battery powered equipment (drills, impacts, etc). My little 18v batteries have a pretty good life....

As this neighbor is a young guy who has little experience with anything powered, I imagine his battery doesn't get looked after properly.....

I met a lawn mowing contractor on the side of the road once and had a chat. I chat with a lot of people like that, you really get the inside dope. Anyway he was All Electric, mowers, blowers, hedgers the lot. He was a total greenie and suss on the engine emissions from Gas. made sense when i thought of it, working 8 hours a day with an exhaust pipe 2 or 3 feet from your face wouldn't be good for your health. Even push mowers, they blow the exhaust out in front, and what does it do? Billows up in your face of course.

His clients were Greenies too and prepared to pay extra and that because it took him a lot longer to do the job. Not an issue around the home, but a liability for a contractor. He only did small yards and down by the river where the homes were expensive and the people could pay. You should have seen his battery collection, a dozen and more 36V packs, half of them plugged into a big fast charger that was plugged into a big inverter plugged into a big truck battery that was connected to his vehicle's alternator. I never saw another like him, they all use Gas machines. I bought two 8Ah 18V batteries six months ago to replace some 6Ah ones I had that were dying. They were only 4 or 5 years old too, and I'd keep them at around 50% charge level when not in use. The replacements were not cheap but the higher voltage packs are outlandish! I don't the price of mine, but it's not like a Gas tool where you can just turn it off and forget it for 6 months.

This is a trusted site down here

Ryobi 36V 5.0Ah Battery reviews

Ryobi 36V 5.0Ah Battery (Electronic): 1.7 out of 5 stars from 45 genuine reviews on Australia's largest opinion site ProductReview.com.au.

www.productreview.com.au

A typical comment: Battery barely used and died: Probably recharged 30x over 4 years and now won’t operate. Contacted ryobi and they say that’s it’s expected life. Absolutely useless.

That's a pretty common experience... You have to be a real "believer" to go all in with this stuff.

​

 

[Bumblebee]

I met a lawn mowing contractor on the side of the road once and had a chat. I chat with a lot of people like that, you really get the inside dope. Anyway he was All Electric, mowers, blowers, hedgers the lot. He was a total greenie and suss on the engine emissions from Gas. made sense when i thought of it, working 8 hours a day with an exhaust pipe 2 or 3 feet from your face wouldn't be good for your health. Even push mowers, they blow the exhaust out in front, and what does it do? Billows up in your face of course.

His clients were Greenies too and prepared to pay extra and that because it took him a lot longer to do the job. Not an issue around the home, but a liability for a contractor. He only did small yards and down by the river where the homes were expensive and the people could pay. You should have seen his battery collection, a dozen and more 36V packs, half of them plugged into a big fast charger that was plugged into a big inverter plugged into a big truck battery that was connected to his vehicle's alternator. I never saw another like him, they all use Gas machines. I bought two 8Ah 18V batteries six months ago to replace some 6Ah ones I had that were dying. They were only 4 or 5 years old too, and I'd keep them at around 50% charge level when not in use. The replacements were not cheap but the higher voltage packs are outlandish! I don't the price of mine, but it's not like a Gas tool where you can just turn it off and forget it for 6 months.

This is a trusted site down here

Ryobi 36V 5.0Ah Battery reviews

Ryobi 36V 5.0Ah Battery (Electronic): 1.7 out of 5 stars from 45 genuine reviews on Australia's largest opinion site ProductReview.com.au.

www.productreview.com.au

A typical comment: Battery barely used and died: Probably recharged 30x over 4 years and now won’t operate. Contacted ryobi and they say that’s it’s expected life. Absolutely useless.

That's a pretty common experience... You have to be a real "believer" to go all in with this stuff.

​

Our nations capital went green and changed all their lawn equipment to battery....and they have a lot of grass to cut each and every day in the summer.....it got so much that they had to hire a few people to shuttle drained batteries to replace with fresh ones....and some of these are for zero turns and are big batteries......

Sometimes these units need 4 battery swap outs per day......if one adds the exorbitant cost of the battery zero turns and mowers (leaf blowers, trimmers) and then add in the cost of many extra batteries and wages for a bunch of people running around with replacement batteries, you could buy a lot of mowing equipment and fuel far cheaper.....

 

[Red05]

Our nations capital went green and changed all their lawn equipment to battery....and they have a lot of grass to cut each and every day in the summer.....it got so much that they had to hire a few people to shuttle drained batteries to replace with fresh ones....and some of these are for zero turns and are big batteries......

Sometimes these units need 4 battery swap outs per day......if one adds the exorbitant cost of the battery zero turns and mowers (leaf blowers, trimmers) and then add in the cost of many extra batteries and wages for a bunch of people running around with replacement batteries, you could buy a lot of mowing equipment and fuel far cheaper.....

Very true, but of course the key word is in the last few...fuel. It's finite and we as a species need to figure out an alternative so our great grandkids don't suffer from our short sightedness. For me, that's the key of this whole topic. If we don't experiment and try things in the real world, how do we know if they work? Call it green or woke or whatever negative connation, it'll eventually be necessary.

 

[Bumblebee]

Very true, but of course the key word is in the last few...fuel. It's finite and we as a species need to figure out an alternative so our great grandkids don't suffer from our short sightedness. For me, that's the key of this whole topic. If we don't experiment and try things in the real world, how do we know if they work? Call it green or woke or whatever negative connation, it'll eventually be necessary.

This is true......maybe the tech will get developed the more diverse the applications are.....

I see the battery as the weak point right now......if these devices are to succeed, the batteries and their charging systems need to be far better than they are now.....especially on these mowing systems that are often far from charging systems.

 

[Oz22]

I see the battery as the weak point right now......if these devices are to succeed, the batteries and their charging systems need to be far better than they are now...

They are a dead end. Full of rare metals that can't be recycled, made in factories that burn mountains of coal to run. The guilt trips the Greenies try to lay on you for rejecting them are paper thin now. Everyone is is starting to realize that net net you are still burning the same amount of fossil fuels to make these things and that will never change. I take the ones that make my life easier/ more fun but it has nothing to do with "saving the planet" Anyone with a modicum of scientific understanding knows that's a Lie.

Angry Woke Planet savers had their day, now it's back to reality.

 

[Zerks]

That being said, I still believe that auto companies don't sink billions of dollars into a technology which works and then throws it away...

In 4 yrs, when the US is back under normal leadership, I think there will be a re-emergence of EV development at least in the US.....petroleum is finite and there is only so much available so something has to be in development to replace or at least take some of the pressure off it.

Other countries will continue to develop EV leaving the US behind.....unless Tesla under the American presidents gets a huge boost....

The political winds have more to do with where we are with the EV industry than anything else... it's all part of the Green agenda that links to the farce called "climate change". Consider what happens when electric power is limited to how many cars we can charge at night. I think we are already there... and don't park it in the garage when you charge it because you don't want to risk a fire... and don't drive in cold winter weather because your EV won't like it. What about range anxiety? EV sales are down... prices are being cut... people are finding ICE cars and trucks are better suited for them and are dumping the EVs.

Under normal leadership? We haven't had normal leadership since the 80s and that wasn't nearly as good as it could have been. Politics in America has been is a total Clown Show for decades.. Politics is Hollywood for mostly political hacks and scammers.... I can barely count on 2 hands how many politicians I consider worthy of our trust right now.

Petroleum is finite? Hmmm... how come we keep finding it when we take the time to look for it? Keep in mind the oldest USA oilfield of size is the Permian Basin in Texas and with horizontal drilling and fracking it has become as productive as it was decades ago.

How do you know the world isn't producing more oil and gas right now? It formed whenever it formed in the evolution of the Earths history... Was the world's oil supply built with an off switch that was flipped when automobiles were invented ? Just because a petroleum engineer with a background in the earths sciences like geology that hasn't told us the world continues to produce oil doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Never forget a lot of power produced that charges EVs comes from coal and other petroleum products... solar power and wind are roughly 18% of the USA's electric power... really going green, aren't we? That is without mentioning how much petroluem is used to produce the materials to make EV batteries.

are people getting rid of EVs and going back to ICE cars and trucks at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

https://ww2.motorists.org/blog/how-much-does-it-take-to-power-an-electric-car/

 

[Bumblebee]

The political winds have more to do with where we are with the EV industry than anything else... it's all part of the Green agenda that links to the farce called "climate change". Consider what happens when electric power is limited to how many cars we can charge at night. I think we are already there... and don't park it in the garage when you charge it because you don't want to risk a fire... and don't drive in cold winter weather because your EV won't like it. What about range anxiety? EV sales are down... prices are being cut... people are finding ICE cars and trucks are better suited for them and are dumping the EVs.

Under normal leadership? We haven't had normal leadership since the 80s and that wasn't nearly as good as it could have been. Politics in America has been is a total Clown Show for decades.. Politics is Hollywood for mostly political hacks and scammers.... I can barely count on 2 hands how many politicians I consider worthy of our trust right now.

Petroleum is finite? Hmmm... how come we keep finding it when we take the time to look for it? Keep in mind the oldest USA oilfield of size is the Permian Basin in Texas and with horizontal drilling and fracking it has become as productive as it was decades ago.

How do you know the world isn't producing more oil and gas right now? It formed whenever it formed in the evolution of the Earths history... Was the world's oil supply built with an off switch that was flipped when automobiles were invented ? Just because a petroleum engineer with a background in the earths sciences like geology that hasn't told us the world continues to produce oil doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Never forget a lot of power produced that charges EVs comes from coal and other petroleum products... solar power and wind are roughly 18% of the USA's electric power... really going green, aren't we? That is without mentioning how much petroluem is used to produce the materials to make EV batteries.

are people getting rid of EVs and going back to ICE cars and trucks at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

https://ww2.motorists.org/blog/how-much-does-it-take-to-power-an-electric-car/

.....Your post tells me that you actually don't read any other posts.....

Each and everything you have stated.....has already been stated and quite a bit of it by me......all except your political rhetoric nonsense...

Petroleum is finite......everyone except you knows this....there is just only so much of it to go around and although we have have enough to last us 100 years.......then what? AS of now petroleum is needed for building EV and their power system....but what if over time and research this can be reduced or even replaced with some other material? If you recall, Bakelite was the older version of plastic and it was found to be vastly inferior to the plastic we use today which even in it's infancy wasn't great......technology needs to evolve and be given the chance to do so...

Look at how huge computers used to be or how unsafe nuclear power systems used to be.....and the list goes on and on.....

I know everyone on this forum will all be gone to the happy hunting ground but is not our duty to look forward to the future.....the future of our children and their children?

Any technology has to be developed......the Hayabusa motorcycle didn't fall out of a tree, it came about from lots of R&D and trial and error....just like EV have to do...

Any government that stops research into the future (in my opinion) are setting up a failure.....

There is no harm in developing EV alongside ICE...and giving consumers choices....if someone buys an EV and it sucks.....it is on the shoulders of that consumer......if the product isn't living up to demands, that product will not be successful.....

Seeing that there are many various EV out there which people are enjoying and are using, it leads me to believe there is a place for EV.

IF EV were better in the climate I live in and the charge rate/availability were better, I'd seriously consider one....

 

[TallTom]

.....Your post tells me that you actually don't read any other posts.....

Each and everything you have stated.....has already been stated and quite a bit of it by me......all except your political rhetoric nonsense...

Petroleum is finite......everyone except you knows this....there is just only so much of it to go around and although we have have enough to last us 100 years.......then what? AS of now petroleum is needed for building EV and their power system....but what if over time and research this can be reduced or even replaced with some other material? If you recall, Bakelite was the older version of plastic and it was found to be vastly inferior to the plastic we use today which even in it's infancy wasn't great......technology needs to evolve and be given the chance to do so...

Look at how huge computers used to be or how unsafe nuclear power systems used to be.....and the list goes on and on.....

I know everyone on this forum will all be gone to the happy hunting ground but is not our duty to look forward to the future.....the future of our children and their children?

Any technology has to be developed......the Hayabusa motorcycle didn't fall out of a tree, it came about from lots of R&D and trial and error....just like EV have to do...

Any government that stops research into the future (in my opinion) are setting up a failure.....

There is no harm in developing EV alongside ICE...and giving consumers choices....if someone buys an EV and it sucks.....it is on the shoulders of that consumer......if the product isn't living up to demands, that product will not be successful.....

Seeing that there are many various EV out there which people are enjoying and are using, it leads me to believe there is a place for EV.

IF EV were better in the climate I live in and the charge rate/availability were better, I'd seriously consider one....

Well Bee if EVs become the solution before you die, at least one person you know will be here to say, it may have taken 40 years, but he was right about EVs. Otherwise you will die and he will never have to admit he was wrong.

 

[Oz22]

Just because we made advances in the past is no guarantee we'll make the needed ones in the future. Our entire modern Global civilization exists because of oil and coal and gas, replace that? With what? Roads are made of oil, or more expensive concrete which is made from oil and coal. What are we gonna ride on after oil? Even now they are ripping up blacktop and converting to dirt. That's the future without oil. I'd give even money on a collapse, an endless fight over the scraps of the 20th century. It's already happening in many nations we just blame it on other things. Dictators, bad financial choices. Fact is they can't afford to buy the oil they need to run society like before. That's good for us! Takes the pressure off as oil supplies decline

 

[Zerks]

.....Your post tells me that you actually don't read any other posts.....

Each and everything you have stated.....has already been stated and quite a bit of it by me......all except your political rhetoric nonsense...

Petroleum is finite......everyone except you knows this....there is just only so much of it to go around and although we have have enough to last us 100 years.......then what? AS of now petroleum is needed for building EV and their power system....but what if over time and research this can be reduced or even replaced with some other material? If you recall, Bakelite was the older version of plastic and it was found to be vastly inferior to the plastic we use today which even in it's infancy wasn't great......technology needs to evolve and be given the chance to do so...

Look at how huge computers used to be or how unsafe nuclear power systems used to be.....and the list goes on and on.....

I know everyone on this forum will all be gone to the happy hunting ground but is not our duty to look forward to the future.....the future of our children and their children?

Any technology has to be developed......the Hayabusa motorcycle didn't fall out of a tree, it came about from lots of R&D and trial and error....just like EV have to do...

Any government that stops research into the future (in my opinion) are setting up a failure.....

There is no harm in developing EV alongside ICE...and giving consumers choices....if someone buys an EV and it sucks.....it is on the shoulders of that consumer......if the product isn't living up to demands, that product will not be successful.....

Seeing that there are many various EV out there which people are enjoying and are using, it leads me to believe there is a place for EV.

IF EV were better in the climate I live in and the charge rate/availability were better, I'd seriously consider one....

Regardless of what you believe about our government... It has been a poop show forever.... one day the proof will be so overwhelming that only the hard core deniers will dispute it.

Our country has pushed for regime change in many countries over the decades since WW2. Our country has grossly violated our 4th A right to privacy as if the 4th A was never written. Half the money sent to Ukraine in recent years cannot be accounted for... This government has been lawless in may ways and with any competency in auditing we are going to find out why we are 36 trillion in debt.

It's funny that you tell me about the Petroluem industry... oh boy... if you only knew what was out there just waiting to be drilled. Example... if you could find the data maps of wells drilled you would see something interesting. My question was when I saw it was... why does the Bakken field stop at the North Dakota / South Dakota state line?

As far as depending on governments to advance us technologically... I prefer private industry over governments... Have you ever wondered what became of Nikolas Teslas research work after he died and the Feds came to clean his place out?

Yes EVs have a nice little niche set up for them... however we haven't really seen the end of the life cycle in numbers matching production of EVs... so, lets see how it goes.

 

[Oz22]

Yes EVs have a nice little niche set up for them... however we haven't really seen the end of the life cycle in numbers matching production of EVs... so, lets see how it goes.

Who buys cars with savings? It's all debt, and most people when they're spending debt don't care, it's on the never never. It's a great social experiment, live beyond your means, but it's coming to end I think. If the masses are backing away from the EV now, what are they gonna do when they have to actually "pay" for a car. I think this ongoing leasing or borrowing money to buy a car or bike is one of the silliest things you can do in life. It's just another tax is all, another way for money to drain out of your account. What middle class person, a typical premium Tesla buyer, has a hundred thou in the bank? I would say that would be a minimum if your lashing out on a $70k car as many did a couple of years ago. In my line of work I saw a lot of financial disasters, families caught owing more then they could repay and having to sell the house even. All because they got greedy and wanted what prudence said they couldn't afford.

That was back in the 90's, and the establishment didn't like what he said, so they took him aside and gave him new orders.


2000 Debt Doesn't Matter

 

[Bumblebee]

Regardless of what you believe about our government... It has been a poop show forever.... one day the proof will be so overwhelming that only the hard core deniers will dispute it.

Our country has pushed for regime change in many countries over the decades since WW2. Our country has grossly violated our 4th A right to privacy as if the 4th A was never written. Half the money sent to Ukraine in recent years cannot be accounted for... This government has been lawless in may ways and with any competency in auditing we are going to find out why we are 36 trillion in debt.

It's funny that you tell me about the Petroluem industry... oh boy... if you only knew what was out there just waiting to be drilled. Example... if you could find the data maps of wells drilled you would see something interesting. My question was when I saw it was... why does the Bakken field stop at the North Dakota / South Dakota state line?

As far as depending on governments to advance us technologically... I prefer private industry over governments... Have you ever wondered what became of Nikolas Teslas research work after he died and the Feds came to clean his place out?

Yes EVs have a nice little niche set up for them... however we haven't really seen the end of the life cycle in numbers matching production of EVs... so, lets see how it goes.

Politics........don't want to discuss them as I have strong feelings regarding what is going on in the US right now but expressing them gets me nowhere.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the cycle of mankind, it wasn't that long ago that we were riding and depending on horses......and look at the rapid advance of technology that has occurred since then....to say that EV can't be part of the future is not very forward thinking in my opinion.....

Am I a fan of EV.......nope, am I a realist........I believe so......and we as a species have to be open minded and embrace change....even seek it out.

I know about the uses of petroleum.......fueling our vehicles is but one of them.....when I see huge cruise liners and aircraft burning millions upon millions of tons of fuel to transport people for vacation or frivolous reasons, it makes me shake my head and wonder why......I can research the carbon footprint of such things but don't see the point. I do know the carbon foot print of a vacationing family taking a cruise is huge when one factors in the air flight to the port or origin and back in order to board the ship....

I think the private sector should be encouraged by the government to advance technology and ensure the power grid is established to provide for the technology the same as gas stations once were.......now they are all private owned and operated but it wasn't always this way.

 

[Bumblebee]

Just because we made advances in the past is no guarantee we'll make the needed ones in the future. Our entire modern Global civilization exists because of oil and coal and gas, replace that? With what? Roads are made of oil, or more expensive concrete which is made from oil and coal. What are we gonna ride on after oil? Even now they are ripping up blacktop and converting to dirt. That's the future without oil. I'd give even money on a collapse, an endless fight over the scraps of the 20th century. It's already happening in many nations we just blame it on other things. Dictators, bad financial choices. Fact is they can't afford to buy the oil they need to run society like before. That's good for us! Takes the pressure off as oil supplies decline

Currently there is an unbalance in how power is globally distributed....some countries use coal and gas, others use nuclear and "green" sources.....there are alternatives but they are costly and in some cases in their infancy but need to be fostered, shutting all research and development off isn't the answer and it's not very forward thinking.....

As the world stumbles along accepting and embracing the status quo, the earth itself suffers......this has been proven during the pandemic when the restriction of driving made smog disappear in major Asian and South Asian cities....

What price to we place on the future for our children and grandchildren....nobody in my parent's generation could care less about any environmental impacts of pretty much anything....open air nuclear detonations, dumping trash off the coasts, and the list goes on and on....

When we are gone and buried, who will champion our causes? Who in the future will look back fondly on our actions to make the earth a better place and preserve it?

The future is what matters.......