? for the twisty pro's
- Thread starter SAMBUSA
- Start date
I've run race tires on the street. I prefer the Avon Storms to the race tires on the street. I'm not aggressive enough on the street to keep the race tires up to temp. I tried a couple of laps at Miller in the wet, I don't like the race tires in the wet at all.
SpeedGeek
Never Forgotten
Unless it is hot and dry, and you are riding HARD.... Then you will not need or get the most out of DOT race tires.
I run DOTs in the summer when I'm riding HARD (yes, knee down speeds) and the pavement has the heat waves coming off it in the distance, and when doing track days - almost the same corner speeds.
Otherwise, it is street tires. PP 2CT, Corsa III, or BT002 are all good choices.
Also, more input on the 002's... My friend is a racer and used 002s for a couple of track days and street rides (the same blistering heat, hauling ass across the state rides with me) and he said they perform OUTSTANDING! They slide well - meaning they will slip, but don't just let go. You'll have plenty of warning long before they slide bad enough for you to get in trouble. Some street tires hold, hold hold, BAM! and you're on your ass. PP's tend to do that - they get hot & greasy and then just let go with very little warning.
Unless you're pushing hard, knee down etc, you will be better off with high perf street tires.
(I also have my own tire changer and balancer, so I can just change tires back and forth for track, street, and riding conditions.
That affords me the luxury of running DOTs for a weekend and then throwing the street tires back on for joy riding around town etc.)
I run DOTs in the summer when I'm riding HARD (yes, knee down speeds) and the pavement has the heat waves coming off it in the distance, and when doing track days - almost the same corner speeds.
Otherwise, it is street tires. PP 2CT, Corsa III, or BT002 are all good choices.
Also, more input on the 002's... My friend is a racer and used 002s for a couple of track days and street rides (the same blistering heat, hauling ass across the state rides with me) and he said they perform OUTSTANDING! They slide well - meaning they will slip, but don't just let go. You'll have plenty of warning long before they slide bad enough for you to get in trouble. Some street tires hold, hold hold, BAM! and you're on your ass. PP's tend to do that - they get hot & greasy and then just let go with very little warning.
Unless you're pushing hard, knee down etc, you will be better off with high perf street tires.
(I also have my own tire changer and balancer, so I can just change tires back and forth for track, street, and riding conditions.
That affords me the luxury of running DOTs for a weekend and then throwing the street tires back on for joy riding around town etc.)
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It's comforting to read the advice and experiences above and see how it conforms exactly to my own tire experimenting! I haven't tried the BT002's yet (they're next) but my Pilot Races are the 1st tire I've ever used at the track that felt REALLY safe at extreme lean angles...but like everyone says, they are not high perf sport touring tires!
Raydog
Raydog
megawatt
Registered
Excellent downloads from the near-pros.Nicely done, you track 'ho's'.
TRACK HO'S
bwahhhh haaaa haaaaWow, that's alot of reasons not to use them. The thought was that I was going to get a set of race take offs(4 laps) for around $80 shipped and use those for the Bash and then when I got home, take them off and put my Michelin's back on. My Michelins are good for another 2-3k miles or one more trip to the Gap. Was just trying to prolong their life.
Knew that they wouldn't do jack in the rain but didn't know the other downsides to them. So Rich, Kevin, and everyone else - thanks for the info.
But I do have one more question. I understand what you are saying about the warm up time but wouldn't that be the same for drag tires? So the guys with Shinko drag tires could potentially have the same problems? Or am I just way off?
Knew that they wouldn't do jack in the rain but didn't know the other downsides to them. So Rich, Kevin, and everyone else - thanks for the info.
But I do have one more question. I understand what you are saying about the warm up time but wouldn't that be the same for drag tires? So the guys with Shinko drag tires could potentially have the same problems? Or am I just way off?
Shinko has been the popular drag tire because they have a flatter profile in the center of the tire for a larger contact patch. This type of profile sucks for twisties, but the tire was meant for the 1/4. They recently have come out with some new tires that do work better for the twisties.
Stick with the more popular sport tires and you'll be fine. There is a Cycle Gear sale this weekend on the Bridgestone BT 016...Kevin and I both have used this tire and IMO it's the BEST sport tire on the market right now. Kevin likes them too. I think they are going for about $230 to your door
Shinko has been the popular drag tire because they have a flatter profile in the center of the tire for a larger contact patch. This type of profile sucks for twisties, but the tire was meant for the 1/4. They recently have come out with some new tires that do work better for the twisties.
Stick with the more popular sport tires and you'll be fine. There is a Cycle Gear sale this weekend on the Bridgestone BT 016...Kevin and I both have used this tire and IMO it's the BEST sport tire on the market right now. Kevin likes them too. I think they are going for about $230 to your door
Wouldn't get a Shinko, EVER. But dont they have the same problems as race tires do with having to be thuroughly warmed up before having any traction?
A lot depends on the compound and what the tire is designed to do.
Any type of tire needs to reach operating temps to do what it is designed to do. At the drag strip they do a burn out to put some heat into the tire to achieve a better launch. For twisties you have to let your tires warm up too...this is done by gradually increasing your pace, lean angle, braking, and harder acceleration.
Good deal on a great tire...
https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/general-bike-related-topics/96436-attn-bridgstone-bt016-sale.html
https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/general-bike-related-topics/96436-attn-bridgstone-bt016-sale.html
Just don't leave the house p*ssed off and I think you'd be good. Right Dave?
I don't like them, but I don't ride......soooooooooo.
Listen to Randy.....he knows all!
BA too.
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I have had great luck w/ Michelin PP & PP 2CT's. I run slicks at the track on my race bike, so I have never pushed them hard enough to get them greasy. This photo is coming out of a corner last weekend on PP 2CT's. I was adjusting the knee slider position on my new leathers. Get a little yellow line on it helps to see where they touch down.
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I do not have first hand knowledge on this but I have read what the experts claim, that many racing tires are only good for 1 or 2 heat cycles and still be an effective hunk of rubber.
Something I have seen is that some tracks will not allow a tire with bluing in the rubber..
If you look at a tire that has been on the track along the outer edges of the tread area, you will see a discoloration (guessing some kind of chemical or temp thing) that is bluish in color..
If tech sees this color they will not let you run that particular tire.. I do not know if this is normal discoloration or from overheating.. but the ones I have seen also had A LOT of balled up rubber from same tire on the running area. (This was all at deals gap) maybe some track racers can elaborate on this issue?
Never really looked much further into it as I do not run these kinds of tires..
The blueing of the rubber is due to excessive heat. The tire becomes hard in that area as the oils are excreted & gives it the blue color. There is no problem w/ balled up rubber. You can see this tire looks pretty rough & is covered on the edges w/ rubber, but it is not showing any blueing. This is a Michelin slick on my 600RR racebike.
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Yes, they need to be at temp (burn out does this as well as clean the tire)... Different tire compounds "hook" differently at different temps.. (drag tires work great in the 100-110 degree range)
Street tires work at cooler temps and have way different compounds that work better on the cold dirty streets but overheat and get greasy under racing conditions..
Would you like to learn about hysteresis and the different tires now?
I bet that is a fun ride on those tires... controlled drifts, predictable slides and awesome hookup ....
Jim Allen, the Factory Dunlop Man whom you'll find in the pits of folks like Ben Spies and Matt MLadin says no modern tire, street or track suffers from heat cycles. In Jim's own words, heat cycles are a thing of the past. Tires are worn out long before heat cycles have any effect.
Jim also says that blue sheen you see on race tires has no effect on a tires performance. Actually, you get that blue sheen look on a brand new tire the first time you pull the tire warmers off.
It's been my experience if a track tire lasts you more than two track days, you'd be better served on street tires. Track tires have amazing grip but don't last long. Many times a track tire (Rear) is trashed by the end of it's first track day.
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