Gen 2 busa hot start issue.

[Bumblebee]

Huh?

November 22nd you told us you put in a new battery after it happened and it never happened again.

Today you tell us it only happened twice and it happened with the brand spanking new battery?

So what was it, or is your memory simply failing you?

I bought a new battery in 2021 after thinking it was the battery that was the issue....

At the time I wrote about my own hot start issue, I wasn't aware that it was a common occurrence....since that time I have learned differently and have adjusted my advice accordingly.

This thread is to help the OP, not a pissing contest between you and I.....I believe we need to focus on that.

 

[jellyrug]

I bought a new battery in 2021 after thinking it was the battery that was the issue....

At the time I wrote about my own hot start issue, I wasn't aware that it was a common occurrence....since that time I have learned differently and have adjusted my advice accordingly.

This thread is to help the OP, not a pissing contest between you and I.....I believe we need to focus on that.

It’s not a pissing contest, it’s about you posting BS as two posts contradict each other.

We are not helping the original poster, by letting him believe a Busa has a mind of it’s own when it is warm, depending on what mood it is in.

 

[Jakegsxr11]

Honestly mine has a mind of it's own during hot starts. Sometimes it starts hard and requires opening the throttle to start. Otherwise it starts as normal when hot. I have yet to determine a rhyme or reason.

 

[Bumblebee]

It’s not a pissing contest, it’s about you posting BS as two posts contradict each other.

We are not helping the original poster, by letting him believe a Busa has a mind of it’s own when it is warm, depending on what mood it is in.

It's beginning to feel like a pissing contest to me.......

..........and no I have never knowingly posted anything that contradicted itself...I thought I knew what the problem was and have since found out what it really was....

You need to learn the same thing as I did, the Hayabusa is known for a hard start issue when warm....which includes all three generations.

There are tons of threads on the subject that I failed to look up when I had the issues I had.....so now I pass along this knowledge to others so they don't make the same impulsive mistake I did.

Lots just like this one....and I'm too lazy to look up the section in the owner's manual that explains about how to start it in that situation...

hard start when hot | Busa problems

ive got an 2002 busa that is a little hard to start when cold but the hotter the engine gets the harder it gets to start. thanks for any help u can give

www.hayabusa.org

 

[Bumblebee]

...Note the date on this post and nobody can agree on what it is either...

Some say battery, some say the hot start issue and mention the owner's manual but nobody can put their finger on it...sounds like a "quirk" to me...

I was ignorant to this so threw a battery in mine....

 

[jellyrug]

It's beginning to feel like a pissing contest to me.......

..........and no I have never knowingly posted anything that contradicted itself...I thought I knew what the problem was and have since found out what it really was....

You need to learn the same thing as I did, the Hayabusa is known for a hard start issue when warm....which includes all three generations.

There are tons of threads on the subject that I failed to look up when I had the issues I had.....so now I pass along this knowledge to others so they don't make the same impulsive mistake I did.

Lots just like this one....and I'm too lazy to look up the section in the owner's manual that explains about how to start it in that situation...

hard start when hot | Busa problems

ive got an 2002 busa that is a little hard to start when cold but the hotter the engine gets the harder it gets to start. thanks for any help u can give

www.hayabusa.org

Well Bee, I'm going to try for the last time to solve your problem for you...

On November 22nd 2022 you told us after this happened, you put in a new battery and it never happened again. So that means you no longer have an issue.

On July 3rd, 2023 you told us the battery was new (OEM Yuasa) and it was fully charged then it happened. And then it happened again. And those were the only two times it ever happened.

In one of those posts, you are not telling the truth.

So in the one post you tell me after the new battery it happened twice and in the other post you tell me after the new battery it never happened again.

When I was still young and pretty, I use to train service techs and certify them for Mercedes Benz among other things. I also got the occasional car which no one could fix to ride around a few days until the intermittent fault came up, so I can fix them. So, I am pretty confident I can fix your bike for you, it is a whole lot simpler than a Merc.

But when a guy tells me one thing and then that appears to not be true because he changes his story, it becomes one of those people who just cannot be helped.

 

[Hayabusa Wannabe]

@Ryan Utah I have a 2017 with 3200 miles and it cranks slowly when hot. It starts after a couple tries, but always makes me think that it will not start. Did yours work better before the transmission repair?

It also depends on how you purchased the battery. If the electrolyte was filled and it did not sit for at least 24 hours before charging, you may have some of the separators damaged inside the battery.

From Yuasa:

For batteries with ratings of less than 18 AH, let the battery stand for 20 to 60 minutes. For batteries with higher AH ratings or having the High Performance rating (designated by an “H” in the part number/name), allow the battery to stand for 1 to 2 hours

Filling a Conventional battery with electrolyte will bring it to a 75-80% charge

I let mine sit 1-1/2 hours, and had slow hot starts. Despite Yuasa's explicit instructions have I damaged my battery? It is nearly charged on its own so that would be difficult to understand.

So according to the owners manual, opening the throttle slightly for a hot start makes you think the starter motor is going to spin faster?

Once, on a hot start the slight throttle opening spun it extremely fast. It was a large and obvious difference in speed. Other times the slight throttle opening does nothing. It makes no sense to me but it actually happened. I wonder if it does something like reset a protocol in the ECU because it cannot reduce pressure behind the valves without a starter circuit.

Having performed many experiments in life, recently I thought to try opening the throttle slightly on a cold start. Do you gents know what it did? It acted like a hot start with a nearly dead battery! It started but with perhaps two slow revs!

So what just happened in the bike's systems?

At the end of the day, there is no rocket science to this.

My bike knows something secretive.

 

[Bumblebee]

Well Bee, I'm going to try for the last time to solve your problem for you...

On November 22nd 2022 you told us after this happened, you put in a new battery and it never happened again. So that means you no longer have an issue.

On July 3rd, 2023 you told us the battery was new (OEM Yuasa) and it was fully charged then it happened. And then it happened again. And those were the only two times it ever happened.

In one of those posts, you are not telling the truth.

So in the one post you tell me after the new battery it happened twice and in the other post you tell me after the new battery it never happened again.

When I was still young and pretty, I use to train service techs and certify them for Mercedes Benz among other things. I also got the occasional car which no one could fix to ride around a few days until the intermittent fault came up, so I can fix them. So, I am pretty confident I can fix your bike for you, it is a whole lot simpler than a Merc.

But when a guy tells me one thing and then that appears to not be true because he changes his story, it becomes one of those people who just cannot be helped.

The only thing I care about is that the OP of this thread gets his question answered.....this is the whole point of this thread.....not the running feud you seem to have with me...

To @Ryan Utah ......... apologies for all the school girl drama and hijacking your thread.

There is an issue with all generations of Hayabusa having a hot start issue....at the time I didn't know this so instinctively bought a new battery thinking that the one I had developed a cranking amp issue...this was not the case as I later found out when seeing other threads on the subject.

The owners manual has a procedure for this very instance- @Hayabusa Wannabe posted an excerpt from the manual to assist you. As you live in a very hot climate, the hot start issue might be magnified for you.

Hope this helps and you were at least entertained...

 

[Ryan Utah]

So okay il try to be clearer.
My hayabusa runs exceptionally well overall and has been maintained.
Supposed issues that I’ve been told have been as follows-

1. I put in a crank battery in 2019 (had yuasa before that). Crank is a battery manufacturer here and provides batteries for all super bikes. However the specifications of the battery Youl have to check for yourself since I’m not really that good with numbers and the specifications.

2. My motorcycle was at the repair shop for 4 months due to the transmission issue.

3. Before those 4 months the bike was sitting for about 7 months at my home not being ridden a lot.

4. Then in august when I went for a ride it got stuck in 5th gear. And I stopped somewhere and then even in 5th gear and completely warmed up it started up in 5th gear no problem.
I dropped the bike to the workshop in 5th gear.

5. Ever since the day I received my bike I’ve been waiting least 20 minutes to start the bike again after I’ve ridding it for 15 min or more.

6. No sound from the engine or any part.

 

[jellyrug]

Interesting thread.

Some riders with over 100,000 miles on the bike have never experienced the hot start issue. Scar is unfortunately no longer with us.

I have never experienced it, and have ridden long rides in Arizona mid summer.

So, some bikes have a defect, others do not.

I won't try and analyze this further, as making up stories which are not true by some, to discount my advice does not contribute to the forum.

If we do research, it appears this defect has been with a small percentage of bikes, starting with all the generations and it seems more prominent with the Gen 3.

If we do more research, the Busa is not the only bike with this experience.

If it ever happens to me, I will come back with what I found. If I could get a bike doing that into my shop while the symptom is active, the protocol to fault find is easy.

For what it is worth, there is a link below, not mine:

Motorcycles Won’t Start When Engine Is Hot? (9 Reasons)

motorandwheels.com

 

[RacingJake]

Heck my B King did it just a few weeks ago when it was over 100 degrees.

One thing I've notice when running ECU editor my computer temp gauge will go higher with the bike running but the gauge on my bike has never gone past half way in 8 years of owning it. I've made 10 hot laps at the Dragstrip in less than an hour and both fans where on, clutch was even hotter and that temp gauge gauge never moved a hair and you could feel that hot air from the fans.

Might just be my bike but has anybody ever seen a higher reading than halfway on their temp gauge ?

My GS doesn't have that problem LOL.

 

[sixpack577]

I rode a friends gen1 for a few years, as well as a couple others.
I had my gen2 for 3 1/2 years, and must have rode a dozen of them.
I had a Bking for a couple years as well.
Several gen2's belonging to friends that had them for a few years.
I have been on the org for 15 years too, and it was only when the gen3 hot start issue came up, that I first heard about this happening on gen1 and 2's as well, as I have never experienced it.

 

[Bumblebee]

I rode a friends gen1 for a few years, as well as a couple others.
I had my gen2 for 3 1/2 years, and must have rode a dozen of them.
I had a Bking for a couple years as well.
Several gen2's belonging to friends that had them for a few years.
I have been on the org for 15 years too, and it was only when the gen3 hot start issue came up, that I first heard about this happening on gen1 and 2's as well, as I have never experienced it.

I had never heard about it before either...that's why I changed out the battery as the "knee jerk" reaction was to do this.

It wasn't until after I did some searching that I found other generations did it as well...

It reminds me of the gen 3 and it's brake and QS issues....not all bikes have had these issues but some have....might be the same as the hot start issue, it might not affect all but only a few?

 

[jellyrug]

I rode a friends gen1 for a few years, as well as a couple others.
I had my gen2 for 3 1/2 years, and must have rode a dozen of them.
I had a Bking for a couple years as well.
Several gen2's belonging to friends that had them for a few years.
I have been on the org for 15 years too, and it was only when the gen3 hot start issue came up, that I first heard about this happening on gen1 and 2's as well, as I have never experienced it.

If you research reviews on any bike, car, truck and almost anything else, there is always a small percentage of owners who experience a problem. We don't live in a perfect world.
The key is being able to analyse and fix the problem.

When I worked for Mercedes, we would find the occasional customer who brings in a car which runs perfect. No codes, everything tests as it should, test drive provides no errors. There were two ways to fix that. The expensive way was replacing a whole lot of stuff and hope the problem has been solved. The customer pays a big bill and a month later he comes back with the same problem. The other way was to take the car on as a daily driver, and drive it until the symptom comes up, with a testing laptop connected to the ECU and some equipment in the vehicle allowing immediate analysis.

Also, if you google "Motorcycle won't start when hot" there are tons of finds.

 

[Bumblebee]

So okay il try to be clearer.
My hayabusa runs exceptionally well overall and has been maintained.
Supposed issues that I’ve been told have been as follows-

1. I put in a crank battery in 2019 (had yuasa before that). Crank is a battery manufacturer here and provides batteries for all super bikes. However the specifications of the battery Youl have to check for yourself since I’m not really that good with numbers and the specifications.

2. My motorcycle was at the repair shop for 4 months due to the transmission issue.

3. Before those 4 months the bike was sitting for about 7 months at my home not being ridden a lot.

4. Then in august when I went for a ride it got stuck in 5th gear. And I stopped somewhere and then even in 5th gear and completely warmed up it started up in 5th gear no problem.
I dropped the bike to the workshop in 5th gear.

5. Ever since the day I received my bike I’ve been waiting least 20 minutes to start the bike again after I’ve ridding it for 15 min or more.

6. No sound from the engine or any part.

Ah, so this seems different as when you try to start it, the starter doesn't engage at all in this circumstance?

When I first read your post, it sounded like the bike just wouldn't start when hot which would point towards the hot start issue...

 

[RacingJake]

So the bike started fine before going in for transmission work.

Have you notice any lost performance after getting it back ? Timing issue.

Radiator full

How old is your battery.

You could check DC voltage at the battery when running and generator phase AC voltage.

My B King book say 13.5 to 15.5 VDC at the battery at 5000 rpm and 70 VAC or higher on each phase at 5,000 rpm.

 

[RacingJake]

I know there was a rectifier check recall years back on my B King and can't remember if they replaced it.

FYI, I looked at some of my data runs from 2020 and notice at 100% TPS and rpm's from 6K to 11K battery voltage did drop to 13.0 and 12.8 volts DC. Once back at part throttle voltage stayed around 13.5 volts DC.

 

[Ryan Utah]

Ah, so this seems different as when you try to start it, the starter doesn't engage at all in this circumstance?

When I first read your post, it sounded like the bike just wouldn't start when hot which would point towards the hot start issue...

It sounds like as if the battery is dead. But it’s not.
Only happens when the bike is hot.

 

[Hayabusa Wannabe]

It sounds like as if the battery is dead. But it’s not. Only happens when the bike is hot.

A battery puts out far less power when hot and the system also draws more power when hot. Thus a weak battery can start a cold engine but maybe not a hot engine. If that battery is from 2019 it may need to be replaced. Make sure it is not as simple as that.

 

[Ryan Utah]

I know there was a rectifier check recall years back on my B King and can't remember if they replaced it.

A battery puts out far less power when hot and the system also draws more power when hot. Thus a weak battery can start a cold engine but maybe not a hot engine. If that battery is from 2019 it may need to be replaced. Make sure it is not as simple as that.

So the mechanic called and says that the crank needs to be changed. He says the bearings are sticking to each other.