Got my new brocks today

[dadofthree]

Brock don't make exhausts, they are made by exhaust manufacturers to his specs. They make good power because he takes the time to do the research required to find out what works best. I've never bought anything from him, (overpriced in my opinion) but he has a reputation for excellent customer service.

I shopped 4 years ago. I was looking for power, price, and quality. My 4-2-1 stainless header makes around 15 RWHP, was decent quality, cost around $800 at that time and came with a MAP. I've seen slip-on's hundreds of dollars higher than that. I had it installed as part of the purchase because I'm too darn practical. I think my exhaust system weighs around 8 pounds. For a lot more coin I can get a Ti system that weighs a few pounds less, but skipping a meal does about the same. I wished everyone would do the research because I found some amazing data during my search. There's people out there paying a lot of money for systems that don't produce results. I've also heard stories of folks that have great difficulty changing oil filters and melting plastics. Can't say if that's quality of install or design / manufacturing.

I was thinking he had some of the cheapest pipes out there, but I might be wrong

 

[GIXERHP]

Correct they are made from Hindle in Canada!
Must have been a bad day, on the Quality control line!

Brock don't make exhausts, they are made by exhaust manufacturers to his specs. They make good power because he takes the time to do the research required to find out what works best. I've never bought anything from him, (overpriced in my opinion) but he has a reputation for excellent customer service.

 

[Mr Brown]

I shopped 4 years ago. I was looking for power, price, and quality. My 4-2-1 stainless header makes around 15 RWHP, was decent quality, cost around $800 at that time and came with a MAP. I've seen slip-on's hundreds of dollars higher than that. I had it installed as part of the purchase because I'm too darn practical. I think my exhaust system weighs around 8 pounds. For a lot more coin I can get a Ti system that weighs a few pounds less, but skipping a meal does about the same. I wished everyone would do the research because I found some amazing data during my search. There's people out there paying a lot of money for systems that don't produce results. I've also heard stories of folks that have great difficulty changing oil filters and melting plastics. Can't say if that's quality of install or design / manufacturing.

I was thinking he had some of the cheapest pipes out there, but I might be wrong

Muzzy has the best power/$ ratio. For example, Brocks sidewinder is $1100 +/- and Muzzys is $8 ish. A Murray can be had for a little less than the Muzzy. All make comparable power. There was a thread on it on Psychobike a while back. You could buy a Hindle pipe (same as Brock's without the name tag) for a few hundred less when I was researching exhausts a few years back. Exact same pipe, just labeled different. Brock's lowering strap is $29.95. Same thing at Schnitz is $7 cheaper, and if you don't mind Schnitz logo on it, it's even cheaper. Brock wants $59.95 for a clutch slave support, Schnitz has them $30 cheaper. These are just examples, seems Brock is always a little higher on everything, and I can't see a reason to justify it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Brock's products, they are all top notch. I just choose not to shop there as I see no benefit in spending the extra money.

 

[dadofthree]

Muzzy has the best power/$ ratio. For example, Brocks sidewinder is $1100 +/- and Muzzys is $8 ish. A Murray can be had for a little less than the Muzzy. All make comparable power. There was a thread on it on Psychobike a while back. You could buy a Hindle pipe (same as Brock's without the name tag) for a few hundred less when I was researching exhausts a few years back. Exact same pipe, just labeled different. Brock's lowering strap is $29.95. Same thing at Schnitz is $7 cheaper, and if you don't mind Schnitz logo on it, it's even cheaper. Brock wants $59.95 for a clutch slave support, Schnitz has them $30 cheaper. These are just examples, seems Brock is always a little higher on everything, and I can't see a reason to justify it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Brock's products, they are all top notch. I just choose not to shop there as I see no benefit in spending the extra money.

Mr Brown Go check your facts. I did. The Brocks SS Meg is a heck of a lot better looking system and is $4 cheaper than the Muzzy. The Brocks SS sidewinder is $20 higher according to the Muzzy and Brocks websites. Don't know about the megaphone systems but the sidewinders from both were making the same HP. I imagine the megaphones are the same. I did notice a 20% increase in pricing over the last 4 years

Does Muzzy provide Map support like Brocks ?

 

[Brock]

I will have to say that I am not too impressed with the quality.The welds look like bird turds, if you weld then you know what I mean.The tubes to the collector are not round.The can does look nice.

Karnage,

I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed with your system. Our stainless pipes are only .027 wall thickness (for weight reduction) and must be MIG welded as a result; MIG's are not and will never be the prettiest welds around. BUT – our stainless line-up makes some of the best power in the industry, weigh in almost as light as most Ti systems and cost as much as 50% less in some cases. The thin wall also makes them warp/oval at the ends sometimes, the good news is that it does this to the mating parts also, so just twist to align and then spin until the spring tabs line up on pre-assembly.

We have not changed our manufacturing process or cut any corners - what you have is exactly what many thousands of happy Busa customers have been running for years. That being said, it does appear that one of our craftsman did let his foot up on the petal of his rotary fixture a fraction too soon - we are in a production atmosphere after all and humans make mistakes that robots don't make. Of course, any leaks would be 100% unacceptable – but I believe Steve has explained to you how to check for this?

I can offer you several options:

1. Return your cosmetically unacceptable parts for exchange. But be warned, they will STILL be MIG welded and NOT pretty.

2. Return you ‘mid level’ Alien Head for our top of the line CT Series Full Titanium System. I will offer you a sizable discount for your trouble. These systems are works of art. The welds are so stunning you might not want to install it or ever start your bike… I’m not kidding. See what Super Streetbike wrote about them in a recent test here (Of course, the Busa system is just as beautiful): CT Single Full System and other ZX-14 | Brock's Main Store

3. Send your Alien Head back for a full refund. I wouldn’t want you to own anything you aren’t happy with. Just call 937-912-0054 or e-mail Sales@BrocksPerformance.com to obtain and RMA number form my staff. They will also explain your discount if you decide to step up to a Ti system.

Let me know if this works for you. My personal e-mail address is Bmail@BrocksPerformance.com.

Brock
Brocks Performance

 

[Brock]

I will have to say that I am not too impressed with the quality.The welds look like bird turds, if you weld then you know what I mean.The tubes to the collector are not round.The can does look nice.

Karnage,

I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed with your system. Our stainless pipes are only .027 wall thickness (for weight reduction) and must be MIG welded as a result; MIG's are not and will never be the prettiest welds around. BUT – our stainless line-up makes some of the best power in the industry, weigh in almost as light as most Ti systems and cost as much as 50% less in some cases. The thin wall also makes them warp/oval at the ends sometimes, the good news is that it does this to the mating parts also, so just twist to align and then spin until the spring tabs line up on pre-assembly.

We have not changed our manufacturing process or cut any corners - what you have is exactly what many thousands of happy Busa customers have been running for years. That being said, it does appear that one of our craftsman did let his foot up on the petal of his rotary fixture a fraction too soon - we are in a production atmosphere after all and humans make mistakes that robots don't make. Of course, any leaks would be 100% unacceptable – but I believe Steve has explained to you how to check for this?

I can offer you several options:

1. Return your cosmetically unacceptable parts for exchange. But be warned, they will STILL be MIG welded and NOT pretty.

2. Return you ‘mid level’ Alien Head for our top of the line CT Series Full Titanium System. I will offer you a sizable discount for your trouble. These systems are works of art. The welds are so stunning you might not want to install it or ever start your bike… I’m not kidding. See what Super Streetbike wrote about them in a recent test here (Of course, the Busa system is just as beautiful): CT Single Full System and other ZX-14 | Brock's Main Store

3. Send your Alien Head back for a full refund. I wouldn’t want you to own anything you aren’t happy with. Just call 937-912-0054 or e-mail Sales@BrocksPerformance.com to obtain and RMA number form my staff. They will also explain your discount if you decide to step up to a Ti system.

Let me know if this works for you. My personal e-mail address is Bmail@BrocksPerformance.com.

Brock
Brocks Performance

 

[Mr Brown]

As far as looks go, that's buyers choice. I could care less if something is pretty or not, as long as it makes me faster!
I checked my facts and found this:
Muzzy's M10 is $879, Brock's ShortMeg is $1045. Both SS, both full systems. Muzzy's standard full system is $499, (stainless with aluminum can) Brock's (stainless with aluminum can) is $1065. All this pricing is from Schnitz website.
No Muzzy's doesn't offer map support, in fact their customer service is horrible, but for the price difference you can get a custom tune. Yeah, everything has gone up everywhere, you oughta price race fuel!
Not wanting to bash Brock or his products by any means, he's popular for good reason, just stating why I personally shop elsewhere.

 

[Brock]

Karnage,

I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed with your system. Our stainless pipes are only .027 wall thickness (for weight reduction) and must be MIG welded as a result; MIG's are not and will never be the prettiest welds around. BUT – our stainless line-up makes some of the best power in the industry, weigh in almost as light as most Ti systems and cost as much as 50% less in some cases. The thin wall also makes them warp/oval at the ends sometimes, the good news is that it does this to the mating parts also, so just twist to align and then spin until the spring tabs line up on pre-assembly.

We have not changed our manufacturing process or cut any corners - what you have is exactly what many thousands of happy Busa customers have been running for years. That being said, it does appear that one of our craftsman did let his foot up on the petal of his rotary fixture a fraction too soon - we are in a production atmosphere after all and humans make mistakes that robots don't make. Of course, any leaks would be 100% unacceptable – but I believe Steve has explained to you how to check for this?

I can offer you several options:

1. Return your cosmetically unacceptable parts for exchange. But be warned, they will STILL be MIG welded and NOT pretty.

2. Return you ‘mid level’ Alien Head for our top of the line CT Series Full Titanium System. I will offer you a sizable discount for your trouble. These systems are works of art. The welds are so stunning you might not want to install it or ever start your bike… I’m not kidding. See what Super Streetbike wrote about them in a recent test here (Of course, the Busa system is just as beautiful): CT Single Full System and other ZX-14 | Brock's Main Store

3. Send your Alien Head back for a full refund. I wouldn’t want you to own anything you aren’t happy with. Just call 937-912-0054 or e-mail Sales@BrocksPerformance.com to obtain and RMA number form my staff. They will also explain your discount if you decide to step up to a Ti system.

Let me know if this works for you. My personal e-mail address is Bmail@BrocksPerformance.com.

Brock
Brocks Performance

 

[lankeeyankee]

Sorry to hear about the poor quality on a high dollar system. I am the same when it comes to quality of welds. Pretty smooth welds are a sign of quality and pride in workmanship.
I am not a welder but can appreciate when skill shows quality and by your pics those are NOT quality welds!!
I would be making a phone call in a respectful manner with hopes that I heard... I am really sorry that you received this type of quality from us send it back and I will have a new one out ASAP after I personally inspect the qaulity. Anything less I would be posting your experience.
Please keep us posted on your updates. I am curious how Brock's Customer Service is.
I am very happy with my Akrapovic system. Every detail is perfection on the system. All the way down to the cosmetic rubber boot spring covers with Akrapovic engraved on them. The welds are just class A quality.

 

[Pipefighter248]

Sorry to hear about the poor quality on a high dollar system. I am the same when it comes to quality of welds. Pretty smooth welds are a sign of quality and pride in workmanship.
I am not a welder but can appreciate when skill shows quality and by your pics those are NOT quality welds!!
I would be making a phone call in a respectful manner with hopes that I heard... I am really sorry that you received this type of quality from us send it back and I will have a new one out ASAP after I personally inspect the qaulity. Anything less I would be posting your experience.
Please keep us posted on your updates. I am curious how Brock's Customer Service is.
I am very happy with my Akrapovic system. Every detail is perfection on the system. All the way down to the cosmetic rubber boot spring covers with Akrapovic engraved on them. The welds are just class A quality.

Read the post directly above yours from Brock himself.

 

[BigBadDodge]

Karnage with all due respect it sounds kinda of silly for you to complain about thin wall tubing on an aftermarket exhaust designed to save weight?



So these 'holes' only look like they go thru but you haven't actually stuck a paper clip in there to verify it? These are machine welds on an exhaust pipe that goes on the bottom of your bike and isn't visible to anyone right?
What you paid for is the R&D that went into getting the most hp from a certain diameter a certain bend a certain shape pipe, not pretty welds. Brock will stand behind his product and make whatever needs to be done right. His pipes are made in Canada by Hindle I believe. But in this case I dont see anything wrong. Roll of dimes welds like you want may be difficult to do on the quantity scale he deals with. You say you weld and so does BigBadDodge but again I don't think either of you have to weld as much as Brocks does. On that I may be wrong.

No offense meant, just an honest opinion.

No offense taken here either, volume wise i guarantee i move 3 times the metal they do, at the least. Only difference between what i do and what they do is his is a +/- 1k dollar exhaust product that rides on a vehicle. My work is on +/- 50k dollar products that have to widthstand tens of thousands of pounds going down the highway behind the customers sometimes 200K dollar rigs

Problem with what we're seeing is A. the pinholes will crack, its not an if but a when, especially with the vibration off these bikes, once it cracks it will keep going till it comes apart. Problem B. would be with that weld being that concave once again its going to crack. Hopefully they just had a rough day, equipment was off a bit, it does happen especially when running volume. Doesnt really look machine done to me in the pics almost looks like a steel filler was used rather than stainless by the coloring.

This is the stuff i'm playing with, you think someone with a truck like that paying that much for the trailer would settle for something like whats pictured in the pipe? They wont, i've seen nicer looking welds than that come back with a pissed off customer and sales guy

Here's why i mentioned the color of the weld, stainless if good and tight fitting joints welds up amazing without filler material(this is a wastegate adapter i did)
Notice the lack of grey coloring to the welds? Proper stainless the bead should have the same coloring/bluing from the heat as the base materials. They have some sort of contamination issue with karnage's pipe.

 

[BigBadDodge]

Karnage,

I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed with your system. Our stainless pipes are only .027 wall thickness (for weight reduction) and must be MIG welded as a result; MIG's are not and will never be the prettiest welds around. BUT – our stainless line-up makes some of the best power in the industry, weigh in almost as light as most Ti systems and cost as much as 50% less in some cases. The thin wall also makes them warp/oval at the ends sometimes, the good news is that it does this to the mating parts also, so just twist to align and then spin until the spring tabs line up on pre-assembly.

We have not changed our manufacturing process or cut any corners - what you have is exactly what many thousands of happy Busa customers have been running for years. That being said, it does appear that one of our craftsman did let his foot up on the petal of his rotary fixture a fraction too soon - we are in a production atmosphere after all and humans make mistakes that robots don't make. Of course, any leaks would be 100% unacceptable – but I believe Steve has explained to you how to check for this?

I can offer you several options:

1. Return your cosmetically unacceptable parts for exchange. But be warned, they will STILL be MIG welded and NOT pretty.

2. Return you ‘mid level’ Alien Head for our top of the line CT Series Full Titanium System. I will offer you a sizable discount for your trouble. These systems are works of art. The welds are so stunning you might not want to install it or ever start your bike… I’m not kidding. See what Super Streetbike wrote about them in a recent test here (Of course, the Busa system is just as beautiful): CT Single Full System and other ZX-14 | Brock's Main Store

3. Send your Alien Head back for a full refund. I wouldn’t want you to own anything you aren’t happy with. Just call 937-912-0054 or e-mail Sales@BrocksPerformance.com to obtain and RMA number form my staff. They will also explain your discount if you decide to step up to a Ti system.

Let me know if this works for you. My personal e-mail address is Bmail@BrocksPerformance.com.

Brock
Brocks Performance

Thats good to hear!!! And as i said in my last post being its production things happen, its inevitable! Glad brocks is making it right

 

[Mr Brown]

Karnage,

I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed with your system. Our stainless pipes are only .027 wall thickness (for weight reduction) and must be MIG welded as a result; MIG's are not and will never be the prettiest welds around. BUT – our stainless line-up makes some of the best power in the industry, weigh in almost as light as most Ti systems and cost as much as 50% less in some cases. The thin wall also makes them warp/oval at the ends sometimes, the good news is that it does this to the mating parts also, so just twist to align and then spin until the spring tabs line up on pre-assembly.

We have not changed our manufacturing process or cut any corners - what you have is exactly what many thousands of happy Busa customers have been running for years. That being said, it does appear that one of our craftsman did let his foot up on the petal of his rotary fixture a fraction too soon - we are in a production atmosphere after all and humans make mistakes that robots don't make. Of course, any leaks would be 100% unacceptable – but I believe Steve has explained to you how to check for this?

I can offer you several options:

1. Return your cosmetically unacceptable parts for exchange. But be warned, they will STILL be MIG welded and NOT pretty.

2. Return you ‘mid level’ Alien Head for our top of the line CT Series Full Titanium System. I will offer you a sizable discount for your trouble. These systems are works of art. The welds are so stunning you might not want to install it or ever start your bike… I’m not kidding. See what Super Streetbike wrote about them in a recent test here (Of course, the Busa system is just as beautiful): CT Single Full System and other ZX-14 | Brock's Main Store

3. Send your Alien Head back for a full refund. I wouldn’t want you to own anything you aren’t happy with. Just call 937-912-0054 or e-mail Sales@BrocksPerformance.com to obtain and RMA number form my staff. They will also explain your discount if you decide to step up to a Ti system.

Let me know if this works for you. My personal e-mail address is Bmail@BrocksPerformance.com.

Brock
Brocks Performance

And THAT ladies and gentlemen is how you demonstrate top level customer service.
Told ya.....

 

[Mr Brown]

Read the post directly above yours from Brock himself.

Those posts weren't there when he posted that, don't know how those got in there in that order, but whatever...

 

[BusaBret]

Karnage,

I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed with your system. Our stainless pipes are only .027 wall thickness (for weight reduction) and must be MIG welded as a result; MIG's are not and will never be the prettiest welds around. BUT – our stainless line-up makes some of the best power in the industry, weigh in almost as light as most Ti systems and cost as much as 50% less in some cases. The thin wall also makes them warp/oval at the ends sometimes, the good news is that it does this to the mating parts also, so just twist to align and then spin until the spring tabs line up on pre-assembly.

We have not changed our manufacturing process or cut any corners - what you have is exactly what many thousands of happy Busa customers have been running for years. That being said, it does appear that one of our craftsman did let his foot up on the petal of his rotary fixture a fraction too soon - we are in a production atmosphere after all and humans make mistakes that robots don't make. Of course, any leaks would be 100% unacceptable – but I believe Steve has explained to you how to check for this?

I can offer you several options:

1. Return your cosmetically unacceptable parts for exchange. But be warned, they will STILL be MIG welded and NOT pretty.

2. Return you ‘mid level’ Alien Head for our top of the line CT Series Full Titanium System. I will offer you a sizable discount for your trouble. These systems are works of art. The welds are so stunning you might not want to install it or ever start your bike… I’m not kidding. See what Super Streetbike wrote about them in a recent test here (Of course, the Busa system is just as beautiful): CT Single Full System and other ZX-14 | Brock's Main Store

3. Send your Alien Head back for a full refund. I wouldn’t want you to own anything you aren’t happy with. Just call 937-912-0054 or e-mail Sales@BrocksPerformance.com to obtain and RMA number form my staff. They will also explain your discount if you decide to step up to a Ti system.

Let me know if this works for you. My personal e-mail address is Bmail@BrocksPerformance.com.

Brock
Brocks Performance

Good on you Sir

Integrity and a desire for true customer service is rare these days and you have just proven that you have both.

From my dunce stool :cookoo:

 

[Mr Brown]

I've seen Brock personally post and respond to product issues on several different forums, it's definitely to his credit that he does so.

 

[Brock]

Sorry for all of the repeat posts guys. My mother is in the hospital and I replied from my tablet with very poor service, but it looks like my posts were just delayed.

I will await Karnage's reply to take care of this.

Brock

 

[karnage]

I talked with Steve at Brocks and we squared it away.He suggested I fill the tubes with water and check for leaks that way and I found non.The pin holes are superficial from where the weld meets the end.I did stick a wire in the hole but must not have gone all the way in.I have it installed, looks good except the #4 flange and pipe are not seated all the way like the rest but I think its in far enough not to leak and I used the copper sealant in the package.I applogize for being an ass about it and shouldnt have started a thread without first talking with Brocks.The thin wall tubing I realize is for weight savings, just didnt think it was quite so thin.I will need to raise my bike up so i dont crush these.I do look foward to seeing the power increase and the ulimate in sound from this exhaust.Again I appologize for beaing an ass and appreciate the service in rectifying the matter.

 

[N2DEEP]

Karnage,

I’m sorry to hear you are disappointed with your system. Our stainless pipes are only .027 wall thickness (for weight reduction) and must be MIG welded as a result; MIG's are not and will never be the prettiest welds around. BUT – our stainless line-up makes some of the best power in the industry, weigh in almost as light as most Ti systems and cost as much as 50% less in some cases. The thin wall also makes them warp/oval at the ends sometimes, the good news is that it does this to the mating parts also, so just twist to align and then spin until the spring tabs line up on pre-assembly.

We have not changed our manufacturing process or cut any corners - what you have is exactly what many thousands of happy Busa customers have been running for years. That being said, it does appear that one of our craftsman did let his foot up on the petal of his rotary fixture a fraction too soon - we are in a production atmosphere after all and humans make mistakes that robots don't make. Of course, any leaks would be 100% unacceptable – but I believe Steve has explained to you how to check for this?

I can offer you several options:

1. Return your cosmetically unacceptable parts for exchange. But be warned, they will STILL be MIG welded and NOT pretty.

2. Return you ‘mid level’ Alien Head for our top of the line CT Series Full Titanium System. I will offer you a sizable discount for your trouble. These systems are works of art. The welds are so stunning you might not want to install it or ever start your bike… I’m not kidding. See what Super Streetbike wrote about them in a recent test here (Of course, the Busa system is just as beautiful): CT Single Full System and other ZX-14 | Brock's Main Store

3. Send your Alien Head back for a full refund. I wouldn’t want you to own anything you aren’t happy with. Just call 937-912-0054 or e-mail Sales@BrocksPerformance.com to obtain and RMA number form my staff. They will also explain your discount if you decide to step up to a Ti system.

Let me know if this works for you. My personal e-mail address is Bmail@BrocksPerformance.com.

Brock
Brocks Performance

TOP NOTCH!!!!

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Brock thanks for replying personally. That my friends is why I'm willing to pay a bit more.
I still have yet to see a Mr Muzzy or a Mr Yoshimura or a Mr Akropovic or any other maker for that matter personally address a concern here or anywhere. It would have been just as easy to have a representative respond but for the owner of a large company to post on a forum is impressive and speaks volumes.