Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name?

[jellyrug]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

I understand that a country's finances are a bit different than an individual's debt, and there are many tools available to temporarily mitigate the problem. However, there is a 800 lb gorilla in the room, and one cannot ignore it. No matter what financial instruments, in the long run they cannot compensate for a growing mountain of debt.

There are plenty of charts around, and here is one below. I see no indication that somehow US national debt will go down, no matter what party.

Don't you get it? Only you, me, and millions of other people have the power to change where it all goes.

I think we have a problem with your perception of how the international economy works, especially with regards to currency manipulation and the money systems. What you fail to understand, or the part you are not getting is that we have a few big gorillas, not only one. The one in the US is not the biggest by the way, but never the less, these gorillas have to eat and right now your 800lb gorilla is not being fed by himself or either party. When he gets hungry and has to feed himself, you will see the debt changing direction. Neither the Democrats, the Republicans, you, or I can change that and we have limited influence unless we abolish democracy completely.

Buy a book on world economics 101 and read it, as it will make you understand that if either your "Political Organization" as claimed on your Facebook, or any political party interferes with free market financial systems on a global basis, it would be quite disastrous for the USA.

 

[skydivr]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

You scale is a year or two off, as we are now to 17 Trillion....

 

[jellyrug]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

You scale is a year or two off, as we are now to 17 Trillion....

The thing is, if we include future liabilities, it is past $70 Trillion.

Ride the wave while we can, next year the markets look promising, unless we have a big ISIS incident inside our borders. Lets cross fingers.

What is important to understand is that 60% of Government expenditures are for social programs, comprising income security, healthcare, education, housing and recreation. Personally, I don't think I am part of that, fortunately.

General government and debt service, which includes executive and legislative branches, tax collection, financial management and interest payments are around 12% and the lowest they have been since before 1959 if expressed as a % of GDP.

Your scale is also off, since Dec 1 we are past $18 trillion.

 

[jellyrug]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

For those concerned about the debt, as a percentage of GDP

United Kingdom 90.6%

France 92.2%

Germany = 76.9%

USA 101.53%

Italy 132.6%

Greece 174.9%

Japan 227.2%

Saudi Arabia 2.68%

Belgium 101.5%

Iraq 31.34%

Russia 13.41%

So if this is really giving you a headache, you can always move to Iraq, Saudi Arabia, or Russia for that matter.

And, if you are or were unemployed, don't complain about it as the good o'l USA spends 60% of its money on social programs and you are part of the problem

Amazing, at Japan approaching 230% of GDP, they can still afford to build a new Kawasaki H2R

Don't worry, in the end it will be Okay. If it is not Okay, it is not yet the end.

 

[TallTom]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

Russia is going to have those numbers changed here in a month or so. Man the Ruble is going down the toilet quick.

 

[skydivr]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

Russia is going to have those numbers changed here in a month or so. Man the Ruble is going down the toilet quick.

How RR Beat the Soviet Union the first time, broke them before it broke us...

 

[IG.]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

jellyrug, you are pulling those numbers out of context. Other things matter, too. You cannot throw all countries into one basket. UK, France, Italy, and especially Greece are all in big trouble. Percentage of GDP is a good indicator. However, the absolute amount of debt is important, too. It is a lot easier to bail out a smaller economy than a big one.

You are simply rationalizing that having such enormous debt is OK. It seems to be OK... until something happens. And then, all of a sudden, it becomes not OK, and everyone is so clever about it, and explaining why bad things happened. Human mind is designed to extrapolate things, and "assumes" that whatever trend is being observed, will continue. It does work well most of the time. However, such "extrapolation" by our mind fails miserably during times when trends change drastically. A deeper and more fundamental analysis is needed in order to foresee and predict such things. Remember, it's not important what event might trigger the downfall.

 

[IG.]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

How RR Beat the Soviet Union the first time, broke them before it broke us...

Yes, we need RR more than ever... Going over known actors in my mind, and none fits the profile.

 

[TallTom]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

How RR Beat the Soviet Union the first time, broke them before it broke us...

Yep that is plain fact. RR outspent them into submission. And as a result for this particular problem being solved, we enjoyed about 20 years of prosperity. Meanwhile we slept while China rose. Our prosperity has come to a temporary end. Our new found wealth is the same as our old wealth. Before Saudi and OPEC came to be, we produced oil. Guess what we are there again.

I wish we would make Natural Gas useful to the world as we can't get rid of that fast enough and can't make it practical to use. Which is ashamed because we have enough for 300 years or so. But I digress.

Pump baby pump.

 

[jellyrug]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

jellyrug, you are pulling those numbers out of context. Other things matter, too. You cannot throw all countries into one basket. UK, France, Italy, and especially Greece are all in big trouble. Percentage of GDP is a good indicator. However, the absolute amount of debt is important, too. It is a lot easier to bail out a smaller economy than a big one.

You are simply rationalizing that having such enormous debt is OK. It seems to be OK... until something happens. And then, all of a sudden, it becomes not OK, and everyone is so clever about it, and explaining why bad things happened. Human mind is designed to extrapolate things, and "assumes" that whatever trend is being observed, will continue. It does work well most of the time. However, such "extrapolation" by our mind fails miserably during times when trends change drastically. A deeper and more fundamental analysis is needed in order to foresee and predict such things. Remember, it's not important what event might trigger the downfall.

How do you suggest with specifics, we fix the debt in the US? Previously you mentioned they don't care spending the money as it is not theirs and this will never correct itself. So, who do you suggest is spending too much and exactly how much and on what are they spending it and what percentage of the total annual expenses does that represent?

 

[IG.]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

I am proposing to put people like you, me, and others to become in real control of our governments through continuous control over politicians and other elected officials - effectively creating an unprecedented oversight agency consisting of millions of people. We the people, collectively would point out so many ridiculous expenses which can be cut. What I personally think needs to be cut is really not that important, nor can I give you a universal answer.

How I am proposing to accomplish this is right here (see below), and apparently it resonates with many people across the country:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Killing-America-Slowly/1531294247120976

We are all on the same side, and the sooner we unite, the sooner we will see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[jellyrug]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

I am proposing to put people like you, me, and others to become in real control of our governments through continuous control over politicians and other elected officials - effectively creating an unprecedented oversight agency consisting of millions of people. We the people, collectively would point out so many ridiculous expenses which can be cut. What I personally think needs to be cut is really not that important, nor can I give you a universal answer.

How I am proposing to accomplish this is right here (see below), and apparently it resonates with many people across the country:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Killing-America-Slowly/1531294247120976

We are all on the same side, and the sooner we unite, the sooner we will see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I know that already from reading your previous posts. The problem is, I am just a simple Engineer, we don't shoot from the hip and we try to really understand our subject matter before we criticize, and mobilize folks to do something.

Anyway, good luck.

 

[IG.]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

Thank you!

I am a simple electrical engineer, too (among other things). It took me at least 5-7 years of thinking and analysis to come to the conclusions I am promoting.

Take your time, but don't take too long.

 

[ZRXMAX]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

Yep that is plain fact. RR outspent them into submission. And as a result for this particular problem being solved, we enjoyed about 20 years of prosperity. Meanwhile we slept while China rose. Our prosperity has come to a temporary end. Our new found wealth is the same as our old wealth. Before Saudi and OPEC came to be, we produced oil. Guess what we are there again.

I wish we would make Natural Gas useful to the world as we can't get rid of that fast enough and can't make it practical to use. Which is ashamed because we have enough for 300 years or so. But I digress.

Pump baby pump.

Natural gas is fast becoming a major source of gasoline. The Bakken is still rocking because the ease at which gasoline can be made from natural gas.

I was working there 3 years ago and the amount of natural gas being flared off in western ND could have easily heated 100 Lousiana Superdomes on a 20 degree below zero day.

Keep in mind "oil" is a political tool... and I suspect a few secrets about oil production are still held under wraps. Ever notice how oil fields get revisted for more production.

Sure, we have technology to thank for increased production. However, does the earth continue to produce oil in fields where it is actively being extracted?

Nobody ever ask that question.

 

[TallTom]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

Sure, we have technology to thank for increased production. However, does the earth continue to produce oil in fields where it is actively being extracted?

Nobody ever ask that question.

Interesting you bring this up. I was just having this discussion with my Petro Engineer friend. For fact they are going back to long since believed to be depleted offshore wells and oil that wasn't there seems to be there now. This theory that it is still being produced to this day, is not a new one on her. Kind of makes your brain warp to think about.

 

[ZRXMAX]

Re: Have you ever agreed for US govt. to accumulate $18 trillion of debt in your name

Interesting you bring this up. I was just having this discussion with my Petro Engineer friend. For fact they are going back to long since believed to be depleted offshore wells and oil that wasn't there seems to be there now. This theory that it is still being produced to this day, is not a new one on her. Kind of makes your brain warp to think about.

One of the ways this hypothetical discovery could be made it to test or analize the make up of the crude oil from decades ago when the well was first drilled and compare it to what is coming out now on the revisit. If many wells were tested over time it might become apparent that the new oil is different in some small way from old crude. If the differences in the makeup of the newer crude indicates their is a difference between oil that has sat for 100s of centuries before being extracted and oil extracted from formerly depleted wells, then, perhaps their is something to it.

Obviously the oil was initially created at a point in time when the earth was a bit younger. How long from that time it has continued, or continues is an unknown aspect of crude oil as we know it. Their very well could be people that know the answer to that question but... if they do... their not talking.