Takeuon
Registered
Like this hasn't been happening by many previous administrastions ???
Only need to look as far as Bush Sr. to see where the serious debt pile up began.
WelfareCare...it passed the Senate
- Thread starter Justyntym
- Start date
Like this hasn't been happening by many previous administrastions ???
Only need to look as far as Bush Sr. to see where the serious debt pile up began.
you can not explain this to a "Socialist" Think about the 3 monkeys...Our will be stronger when people take responsibility for themselves, PERIOD.
Socialism is a nothing more than a downward spiral.
I keep thinking about my daughter who after years of college and effort is
graduation in may. Upon which when she is hired, she will not only be paying
for her own existance but paying back school loans, etc. and NOW, she
will ALSO have to pay $500 a month for 5 years and THEN Saphronia down the
street that never had a job, with 9 kids can have free health care and
somehow you think that will make us stronger as a nation...for what compassion...compassion how about SELF RELAINCE and RESPONSIBILITY.
You want to be compassionate...do with your money, not mine or my kids.
She could use that money, THAT SHE EARNED, to maybe buy a new car
and help the auto industry or a house...but no...
Socialism wont work because people suck, they are basically lazy, selfish,
and want something for nothing.
I know you are not stupid so I will ignore your logic statements.
It is definately a two way street and we have a responsibility to do what we can to do take care of ourselves and not overburden any system at the same time we need to support those that are less fortunate until they are able to be more productive. This is a big job after generations of neglect.
I think people people actively worked to make this a better country by voting in the current administration. I do expect my elected officials to make this a better place, that is what I elected them to do.
To bad government is the disease that is "effecting" the whole body. No matter how much you like or dislike the government, I believe we can all agree that it is NOT the government that can make this country great, it is the people.
Government takes more in taxes every year creating more poverty which causes more crime which also mean more people cant afford health care. Government is also ruining our education system by trying to force everyone to be able to pass.
Now take government MOSTLY out of the picture and put people with morals and a sense of responsibility in place of many in this country, then tell me how great this place would be. I will leave this up to your imagination.
My point exactly. The idea of pouring syrup on shid & calling it pancakes is old & played out. As you said, it is nothing of what it started out to be, and now it is like just throw something out & we'll sign it.
Obama is not standing on his own two feet & sticking to his guns (ha ha, I made a funny), but rather being pushed around by those (that shall remain nameless) in his party.
Sad deal.
Please insert soundtrack from Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here album "Welcome to the Machine...."
As much as we may 'think' we live in a 'free' country and the 'rights' of an American citizen are the ultimate preservationist goal of our constitution, governmental motivations for supporting our country are to protect and preserve the 'liberties' we have as a nation. This means taking whatever steps are necessary to ensure our country's inner strength and foundations for longevity so this country can continue as a super power.
The issues are many and complex but the ultimate and final acts of responsibility lie at the very feet of the people who make up this nation. If you'll do the research, we aren't a nation founded on 'democracy', we are a republic. Our nation functions as a republic based on the whims and sways of the general population. When you get a chance to look through history, shifts in government are made when a people can stand united on specific issues and throw themselves into swaying the powers that be with a justifiable and profitable change that will not cripple the republic. So many issues are so poorly represented from the GP (general public) side, we couln't hardly expect to be properly represented in the government. This is typically because we don't understand the depths and intricacies of these topics. Very few people can understand the complexities that adorn a cell phone contract, let alone something as complex as health care. Who's to blame for our intelligence, or lack of it? We are so busy seeking our own comfort, we seldom realize the sacrifice required to become concerned for the welfare of others and the proper demonstration of same. Kinda of like give a man a fish-teach a man to fish.
There is a wisdom of insight little practiced in our present form of government. Without trying to play the 'God card', it does appear there are principles of wisdom practiced by other great leaders we could all take lessons from. And it appears with all great leaders (obviously defined as having the best interest of others at heart with a proven record of such) the one thing they had in common was a strong moral background based on a relationship with Him. I didn't say a 'religion' with Him, I said a relationship. Something that requires us to give of ourselves to others and in so doing, we see Him.
There is no way to finely (not finally) discuss the intimacies of such things in a little ol' motorcyle thread like this one, but I do believe merit lies in the way we consider the position of our heart toward others. I don't think this will make much sense to any of us who don't have the 'experience' of practicing such things, it barely makes sense to me. But the theme of 'Godly wisdom' seems to be missing from a lot of our actions especially as a nation.
Although seeking God can come in many forms and prayer (in whatever position chosen) seems to be a common representative of talking to Him, I hope we spend our time seeking Him and his advice in how to conduct our affairs especially when it comes to the leadership of our nation. Otherwise, I do believe we are in the throws of what happens when we follow the wisdom of men who chose not to consider themselves as the servant of others but rather would chose others to serve him (lower case 'h').
Anyway, Merry Christmas to everyone! Have a Good 'un and it wouldn't hurt any of us to consider the creater of all to be worthy of our attention in some form or another. Happy New Year as well!
As much as we may 'think' we live in a 'free' country and the 'rights' of an American citizen are the ultimate preservationist goal of our constitution, governmental motivations for supporting our country are to protect and preserve the 'liberties' we have as a nation. This means taking whatever steps are necessary to ensure our country's inner strength and foundations for longevity so this country can continue as a super power.
The issues are many and complex but the ultimate and final acts of responsibility lie at the very feet of the people who make up this nation. If you'll do the research, we aren't a nation founded on 'democracy', we are a republic. Our nation functions as a republic based on the whims and sways of the general population. When you get a chance to look through history, shifts in government are made when a people can stand united on specific issues and throw themselves into swaying the powers that be with a justifiable and profitable change that will not cripple the republic. So many issues are so poorly represented from the GP (general public) side, we couln't hardly expect to be properly represented in the government. This is typically because we don't understand the depths and intricacies of these topics. Very few people can understand the complexities that adorn a cell phone contract, let alone something as complex as health care. Who's to blame for our intelligence, or lack of it? We are so busy seeking our own comfort, we seldom realize the sacrifice required to become concerned for the welfare of others and the proper demonstration of same. Kinda of like give a man a fish-teach a man to fish.
There is a wisdom of insight little practiced in our present form of government. Without trying to play the 'God card', it does appear there are principles of wisdom practiced by other great leaders we could all take lessons from. And it appears with all great leaders (obviously defined as having the best interest of others at heart with a proven record of such) the one thing they had in common was a strong moral background based on a relationship with Him. I didn't say a 'religion' with Him, I said a relationship. Something that requires us to give of ourselves to others and in so doing, we see Him.
There is no way to finely (not finally) discuss the intimacies of such things in a little ol' motorcyle thread like this one, but I do believe merit lies in the way we consider the position of our heart toward others. I don't think this will make much sense to any of us who don't have the 'experience' of practicing such things, it barely makes sense to me. But the theme of 'Godly wisdom' seems to be missing from a lot of our actions especially as a nation.
Although seeking God can come in many forms and prayer (in whatever position chosen) seems to be a common representative of talking to Him, I hope we spend our time seeking Him and his advice in how to conduct our affairs especially when it comes to the leadership of our nation. Otherwise, I do believe we are in the throws of what happens when we follow the wisdom of men who chose not to consider themselves as the servant of others but rather would chose others to serve him (lower case 'h').
Anyway, Merry Christmas to everyone! Have a Good 'un and it wouldn't hurt any of us to consider the creater of all to be worthy of our attention in some form or another. Happy New Year as well!
Thank you for knowing I am not stupid.
While you choose to ignore my statement about the logic you where showing, by the logic you yourself gave my statement was true. That is your decision and only shows to me that you as an individual refuse to see both sides of a discussion and are closed minded on this subject.
I figured you of all people would like to understand both sides. I personally would like to understand the mind of the people who are different from me. It makes me a better person and can ultimately more caring and understanding of someones TRUE needs.
I hope that both you and I can continue to discuss these issues with an open mind.
Dozerdriver
Registered
Ahh...2012 will be here soon to clean the slate 
Dino, no one is going to change your frame of mind at this point. You are young, healthy and strong. Healthcare is not an issue with you but one day you will be old and feable. At that point you will look back on your younger days and say "WTF was I thinking"!
My dad told me something once when I was young and dumb, "It's a shame son, we grow old so soon and wise so late"! I didn't know what to think about his words of wisdom at that point but I certainly understand it now!
By he way, who covered that subject about you pi$$ing in my ear and telling me it was raining?
My dad told me something once when I was young and dumb, "It's a shame son, we grow old so soon and wise so late"! I didn't know what to think about his words of wisdom at that point but I certainly understand it now!
By he way, who covered that subject about you pi$$ing in my ear and telling me it was raining?
I have no problem with the few that are "less fortunate"...I got a problem with
the idiot that chooses NOT TO work and can't keep their legs closed or their
johnson home and continue to add to the burden.
As far "actively worked to make this country better"...it's not about a better
country, they voted for the free stuff.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. – Alexander Tytler
A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
Jefferson was pretty sharp.
Generations of neglect...??? How about they get off thier
and help themselves. You do read the paper or see the news daily, you see what people
are and the garbage they are capable of. Look at the superdome in N.O.
during Katrina and even the city of N.O. itself...a shining moment of humanity
or people reduced to their basics...shooting at rescue choppers ???
Side Note-When I was in highschool, a buddies father went to the Soviet Union,
he came and spoke to our class. He said...it was the worst place and no
one should want to go. Everybody has a govt' job and you can't be fired so...
nobody does anything. He said on the docks, the boats sit in the harbor and
do not even get unloaded. The workers just sit there while the food inside the
ships rots. No one can be fired, no one makes any more money...their is no
incentive to do anything. The only way to get your ship unloaded (or to accomplish
anything at all) is thru bribes. To get unloaded, you have to bribe the harbor master
or dock forman. I reitterate...people suck.
My point is...I think Socialists vastly overestimate...man.
The best motivator is, if you don't work...you don't eat.
Ahh...2012 will be here soon to clean the slate
Yes sir, I think you are onto something right there.
I voted for our current president and now I'm suffering from buyer's remorse. It's to bad we didn't know in November of 08 what we know now. I've never really cared for McCain's leadership but he is looking pretty damn good to me right now.
the problem is the sheer number of people on the "gravy train" now... Socialism is fine for them as long as the majority do not subscribe to the same lifestyle...I have no problem with the few that are "less fortunate"...I got a problem with
the idiot that chooses NOT TO work and can't keep their legs closed or their
johnson home and continue to add to the burden.
As far "actively worked to make this country better"...it's not about a better
country, they voted for the free stuff.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. – Alexander Tytler
A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. – Thomas Jefferson (1801)
Jefferson was pretty sharp.
Generations of neglect...??? How about they get off thier
themselves. You do read the paper or see the news daily, you see what people
are and the garbage they are capable of. Look at the superdome in N.O.
during Katrina and even the city of N.O. itself...a shining moment of humanity
or people reduced to their basics...shooting at rescue choppers ???
Side Note-When I was in highschool, a buddies father went to the Soviet Union,
he came and spoke to our class. He said...it was the worst place and no
one should want to go. Everybody has a govt' job and you can't be fired so...
nobody does anything. He said on the docks, the boats sit in the harbor and
do not even get unloaded. The workers just sit there while the food inside the
ships rots. No one can be fired, no one makes any more money...their is no
incentive to do anything. The only way to get your ship unloaded (or to accomplish
anything at all) is thru bribes. To get unloaded, you have to bribe the harbor master
or dock forman.
My point is...I think Socialists vastly overestimate...man.
The best motivator is, if you don't work...you don't eat.
There was a time when the handouts were looked down upon.. now they are just looked "forward" too...
My opinion, as if it matters 
I don't see many gov't run programs that can be deemed a success, under any administration...
Our public education system lacks, and I don't for a second blame that on the teachers, it's the red tape BS they all have to deal with nowadays, the limited budgets, the simple fact that they're not encouraged to enlighten the mind of a child based on that particular child, but that they are all lumped in one group, and they'd better pass their damn SOLs or no funding and no job.
Look at the welfare system...helps many, but it's so riddled in corruption and there are NO guidelines to who gets it or under what circumstances, so Mary down the street can have 10 kids, no job, no home, but still get her handout so she can work the system and buy a 6-pack of beer and her cigarettes. The kids don't benefit as they should. I saw this first hand all through high school just working at a grocery store ???
Cash-for-clunkers, great indication of just how well a gov't run program that hasn't been thought through can really be Followed closely by bailing out the banks so their big wigs get their hefty bonuses this year I must have missed the thank you to the public for a great Christmas for those guys...
I think out of all of this, the American public finally got to see, in action, votes being bought, promises being made and our tax money going out the door on yet another half-a$$ program that will fall to pieces before it even gets up and running. Oh, it's happened under other Presidents, I'm sure, but this time we got seats on the 50 yard line and I think many on both sides let their jaws drop just a bit. The real kicker - most in that room this morning casting votes on either side don't even know what's in the damn bill they just voted on, and that in itself should be a crime.
When our gov't, under ANY President, can actually bring together ideas not riddles with empty promises and payoffs, hidden agendas and BS, that's when they might create something worth wild. I don't think it'll ever happen, not in my lifetime...
I don't see many gov't run programs that can be deemed a success, under any administration...
Our public education system lacks, and I don't for a second blame that on the teachers, it's the red tape BS they all have to deal with nowadays, the limited budgets, the simple fact that they're not encouraged to enlighten the mind of a child based on that particular child, but that they are all lumped in one group, and they'd better pass their damn SOLs or no funding and no job.
Look at the welfare system...helps many, but it's so riddled in corruption and there are NO guidelines to who gets it or under what circumstances, so Mary down the street can have 10 kids, no job, no home, but still get her handout so she can work the system and buy a 6-pack of beer and her cigarettes. The kids don't benefit as they should. I saw this first hand all through high school just working at a grocery store ???
Cash-for-clunkers, great indication of just how well a gov't run program that hasn't been thought through can really be
Followed closely by bailing out the banks so their big wigs get their hefty bonuses this year I must have missed the thank you to the public for a great Christmas for those guys...I think out of all of this, the American public finally got to see, in action, votes being bought, promises being made and our tax money going out the door on yet another half-a$$ program that will fall to pieces before it even gets up and running. Oh, it's happened under other Presidents, I'm sure, but this time we got seats on the 50 yard line and I think many on both sides let their jaws drop just a bit. The real kicker - most in that room this morning casting votes on either side don't even know what's in the damn bill they just voted on, and that in itself should be a crime.
When our gov't, under ANY President, can actually bring together ideas not riddles with empty promises and payoffs, hidden agendas and BS, that's when they might create something worth wild. I don't think it'll ever happen, not in my lifetime...
Dozerdriver
Registered
I don't like the fact that there are people who need this but so many will take advantage of it...just like welfare. The system is easy to play for those who don't want to earn it...
exactly.. those in "real" need get totally hosed by the freeloading group taking advantage of what resources are available....Just like people on the govt payroll.... compile a list of them, their jobs and then show me exactly what they have been doing with their time and my money.. So much dead weight carried by a handful of hard workers (and I bet they gotta work like mad)..
si-lo
Registered
Only need to look as far as Bush Sr. to see where the serious debt pile up began.
Ummmm...there never has been a Bush Sr.
jdsbusa
Registered
Health care as a right....
Add to that the list of anything else that PUTS people in the need for health care....alcohol abuse, binge eating....
Great point made, health care should not be provided for free if someone puts themselves in the position to need it. If you develop a tumor and need care, fine, get the swine flu.....fine, kid needs tonsils removed....fine. But there's never any thought like that put into these programs. It's just give give give and no matter what people do to put themselves in a position to need the help....give some more, and blame it on the ills of society. It's not "their fault"....always someone elses and the gov't should help them out. It's going to be a felony to not have insurance, yet perfectly okay to endanger yourself in the first place putting you in the situation of needing insurance and not even a slap on the wrist? That's a slap in the face to every hard-working American!
My friend when you try to compare what a doctor of medicine does to a "street walker" you have lost me. Especially when you then go on to talk about morality.
And there in is where personal responsibility comes into play.
jdsbusa
Registered
Dino since you're such a staunch supporter of Obama and everything the dems do, how do you respond to Bogus' theory of making acts that put ones' health in danger thereby requiring this "free" healthcare a felony? Things such as drug abuse, alcoholism, obesity....you feel it's right to provide free care for those that put themselves in that situation of requiring care yet it's a felony to NOT have healthcare? What happened to tit for tat?
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