WelfareCare...it passed the Senate

[Tufbusa]

Does anyone other than me notice how the far left often tend to use the term "FREE"! You can't discuss this issue without someone using that liberal term "FREE"! Do they not understand that "There are no FREE rides"? No one will visit a doctor for "FREE". If you receive a service (Health Care) for "FREE" you'd think they would understand that somewhere someone has paid for that service which the payee did not receive?

 

[PandaNin]

and with that I withdraw from further political discussion. I'm sorry to those whom I may have upset with my opinion. It is my opinion and typically I choose not to discuss it openly. This time I felt an obligation to so I did.

I respect your opinion and ask that you respect mine.

 

[Dino]

Policework is a COMMUNITY-PROTECTION, much as our country's defense is, and not a right.

A right is inalienable. If there are no doctors do you have a right to see one? If there are none, that's rather difficult. If we had 1/2 the number of Dr.'s we had today because they got out of the field, does the government mandate that certain students become Dr.'s to fill the void? When does their right to choose a career get superceded by the government's obligation to fulfill your right to a doctor?

RE: Education, I think you're onto something. If you can't afford for your kids to get an education, you either shouldn't have kids or the kids don't get one. Education is not a right. It's a privilege. A privilege that is extended to many that don't want it and scoff at it. If they don't want to learn I cannot force them to learn. I put my daughter through private school because the quality of public education is so low as to be unreasonable. The same thing will happen with your healthcare.

A right is a right regardless of it's size. So equating healthcare to internet is perfectly legit. They are the same, non-rights and therefore should not be mandated by government.

So then you would agree that having a government police force is a form of socialism and receiving police services is a form of social welfare correct?

It is funny that you don't equate a well educated society with a strong society. Because if you look around the nations with the most highly educated populations as the ones that are holding their own. Same thing with health care, the nations with the healthiest populations are also managing in this economy.

 

[Dino]

Does anyone other than me notice how the far left often tend to use the term "FREE"! You can't discuss this issue without someone using that liberal term "FREE"! Do they not understand that "There are no FREE rides"? No one will visit a doctor for "FREE". If you receive a service (Health Care) for "FREE" you'd think they would understand that somewhere someone has paid for that service which the payee did not receive?

You are right, just like it is not free when you call 911 because you need the police or fire department or to check a book out of the library. Nor is it free to drive down the road or have the snow plowed.

Get this Tuf people who don't drive pay for the roads to be cleared. You pay for other people to be able to use the library and check out a book. You pay for the police to go help people you don't even know. How crazy is that. Good lord, that is SOCIALIST!

I think we all understand that it is our tax dollars that pay for these services, Do you think by repeating the consertive talk radio script you are actually making a point.

 

[lavinrac]

Are you really equating health care to internet service?

So is police protection and education a right? Why those and not health care? Maybe we should do away with public schools and only educate those that can afford private school. Same with police, do away with the police and you have to pay for your own security and investigative work is a crime is committed against you.

Let me take a stab at this Dino. "Police Protection" and "Education*". It is a paid for service, hence your taxes to the STATE and or CITY. Police and Teachers are considered PUBLIC SERVANTS hence they are paid by the public(Through Taxes) to do their respective jobs.. ie: protect or teach.

Doctors are NOT public servants. They are NOT paid for by the State, City or Government. They are paid by individuals or companies(Insurance). I am sure the hospitals get some subsidies of some sort from the city state or government to assist in paying for the people who decide to not pay, or are unable to pay.


While "Police Protection" and "Education*" is a right(remember they are paid through Taxes) Health care(paid by individual or company) is a privilege.

Health Care would be a right if you had insurance since it is a service you already paid for or are paying for. Now what makes it a privilege is that people have a choice to pay for the service(s) a doctor can provide.

I do find it funny you cant believe someone equated 2 services that people pay for directly, while you try to put together 1 service paid for indirectly and 1 paid for directly. No matter which way you slice it Health Care is a service just like any others. You pay for the service you get, or should we give everyone a Big Screen TV.

I do hope this has been informative and I apologize now for my poor spelling a grammar.

* Education meaning up to and through highschool. Any additional education becomes a privilege.

 

[Dino]

Let me take a stab at this Dino. "Police Protection" and "Education*". It is a paid for service, hence your taxes to the STATE and or CITY. Police and Teachers are considered PUBLIC SERVANTS hence they are paid by the public(Through Taxes) to do their respective jobs.. ie: protect or teach.

Doctors are NOT public servants. They are NOT paid for by the State, City or Government. They are paid by individuals or companies(Insurance). I am sure the hospitals get some subsidies of some sort from the city state or government to assist in paying for the people who decide to not pay, or are unable to pay.


While "Police Protection" and "Education*" is a right(remember they are paid through Taxes) Health care(paid by individual or company) is a privilege.

Health Care would be a right if you had insurance since it is a service you already paid for or are paying for. Now what makes it a privilege is that people have a choice to pay for the service(s) a doctor can provide.

I do find it funny you cant believe someone equated 2 services that people pay for directly, while you try to put together 1 service paid for indirectly and 1 paid for directly. No matter which way you slice it Health Care is a service just like any others. You pay for the service you get, or should we give everyone a Big Screen TV.

I do hope this has been informative and I apologize now for my poor spelling a grammar.

* Education meaning up to and through highschool. Any additional education becomes a privilege.

The point is health care SHOULD be a public service just like education and police protection. Hopefully that is the way we are going.

 

[Bird Hunter]

and with that I withdraw from further political discussion. I'm sorry to those whom I may have upset with my opinion. It is my opinion and typically I choose not to discuss it openly. This time I felt an obligation to so I did.

I respect your opinion and ask that you respect mine.

I agree with all your posts in this thread....

 

[Tufbusa]

The point is health care SHOULD be a public service just like education and police protection. Hopefully that is the way we are going.

And if you get your way Dino, the healthcare system will become a dog just like the government provided educational system. Don't we pay more per student than any other country in the world and fall somewhere near the bottom when it comes to the quality of education? Maybe someone could chime in and give you specific numbers?

 

[Dino]

And if you get your way Dino, the healthcare system will become a dog just like the government provided educational system. Don't we pay more per student than any other country in the world and fall somewhere near the bottom when it comes to the quality of education? Maybe someone could chime in and give you specific numbers?

That is because Education is run by local school boards under state mandates. Plus we can't forget the President Bush "No Child Left Behind" piece of crap.

I am not saying that we can't do better.


It is funny that you should bring that up about education. When it is true of our CURRENT Health Care system.

American medical care may be the most expensive in the world, but that does not mean it is worth every penny. A study to be released Thursday highlights the stark contrast between what the United States spends on its health system and the quality of care it delivers, especially when compared with many other industrialized nations. (This was from 2008)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/business/17health.html

 

[Tufbusa]

Hey bro you are the one who said it was unconstitutional. I am just asking if you can actually point out where it violates the rights granted in the constitution or if you are just ranting.

I do agree with you on your assessment of insurance. I don't like the bill becaue it is a form of corporate welfare for insurance companies. Health ,just like public safety, should be available and free for all Americans regardless of income. No insurance companies necessary.

Don't p!ss in my ear and try to tell me it's raining dude! YOU are the one using that beloved liberal term "FREE"!

 

[lavinrac]

The point is health care SHOULD be a public service just like education and police protection. Hopefully that is the way we are going.

I would like to know WHY you believe healthcare should be a public service.


By your train of thought we could get enough people together and make HOT pole dancing women become a public service, or any other profession that sees at least 1 person from the public ie: EVERYTHING

 

[Dino]

You are right, just like it is not free when you call 911 because you need the police or fire department or to check a book out of the library. Nor is it free to drive down the road or have the snow plowed.

Get this Tuf people who don't drive pay for the roads to be cleared. You pay for other people to be able to use the library and check out a book. You pay for the police to go help people you don't even know. How crazy is that. Good lord, that is SOCIALIST!

I think we all understand that it is our tax dollars that pay for these services, Do you think by repeating the consertive talk radio script you are actually making a point.

Don't p!ss in my ear and try to tell me it's raining dude! YOU are the one using that beloved liberal term "FREE"!

This was covered.

 

[Busa1166]

he will run the government debt up sky high and then his term will be over..next guys problem??

Don't they all ???

 

[lavinrac]

That is because Education is run by local school boards under state mandates. Plus we can't forget the President Bush "No Child Left Behind" piece of crap.

I am not saying that we can't do better.


It is funny that you should bring that up about education. When it is true of our CURRENT Health Care system.

American medical care may be the most expensive in the world, but that does not mean it is worth every penny. A study to be released Thursday highlights the stark contrast between what the United States spends on its health system and the quality of care it delivers, especially when compared with many other industrialized nations. (This was from 2008)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/business/17health.html

Now I do have to say I agree with you on the education system it is a joke.. and the government past and present ALL included are and have been making it worse.

Originally Posted by Tufbusa
Don't we pay more per student than any other country in the world and fall somewhere near the bottom when it comes to the quality of education? Maybe someone could chime in and give you specific numbers?

I don't have the numbers Tuf, but you are also correct. Unfortunately teachers today seem to be more worried about what they say or do than teaching. This would be all because of mandates and regulations.

 

[Dino]

I would like to know WHY you believe healthcare should be a public service.


By your train of thought we could get enough people together and make HOT pole dancing women become a public service, or any other profession that sees at least 1 person from the public ie: EVERYTHING

Healthcare should be a public service because a nation is stronger when the population is healthy.

 

[Dino]

Now I do have to say I agree with you on the education system it is a joke.. and the government past and present ALL included are and have been making it worse.



I don't have the numbers Tuf, but you are also correct. Unfortunately teachers today seem to be more worried about what they say or do than teaching. This would be all because of mandates and regulations.

I think the education system could be better, but I would not say it is a joke. THe schools here in VA Beach are among the best in the country, but the taxes are pretty high here too.

Thing is all this is related, education, health care, crime, poverty, like the organs in your body. If you to look at it like that then you realize that if any one of your organs is diseased then it effectes your whole body.

 

[Mr Bogus]

Does anyone other than me notice how the far left often tend to use the term "FREE"! You can't discuss this issue without someone using that liberal term "FREE"! Do they not understand that "There are no FREE rides"? No one will visit a doctor for "FREE". If you receive a service (Health Care) for "FREE" you'd think they would understand that somewhere someone has paid for that service which the payee did not receive?

you know as well as I do that the word "Free" is an oxymoron all by itself..

"healthcare should be free" what a friggen laugh... and what pie in the sky leftist puff of hot air.... (that would be oral fart gas) Lets see who turns in their "paid" insurance for the "free" variety..

Health care research should be free, health care workers should work for free and virgins should be free...

All the people that work in the industry should be doing it as volunteer work I guess... Some of the brightest, most dedicated people in the American work force should be living in cardboard boxes so that some deadbeat can have everything at the expense of others..

A Govt making health insurance "Mandatory" at the threat of imprisonment? yea this is really a great deal for all Americans... Goes to show, no matter what you do, you will always find some idiot to "back" your program if you feed them enough propaganda...

I suppose jail should be free for those that are locked up for not paying the govt fines that will be imposed for "not having insurance" or paying additional taxes on premiums that some dill hole finds excessive...

There is so much wrong with this subject that it really does not even justify discussion... (by the way, they have snaked in abortion fees which might just pay off to those people sitting at home breeding just to gain a larger monthly handout check, if you can mandate insurance, you can mandate specific health care..)

Health care as a right.... as soon as you make smoking, drug use, obesity, and anything else that might compromise your health a felony... (seeings that not having "health insurance" will result in a felony charge at the end of the rainbow)

 

[Dino]

you know as well as I do that the word "Free" is an oxymoron all by itself..

"healthcare should be free" what a friggen laugh... and what pie in the sky leftist puff of hot air.... (that would be oral fart gas) Lets see who turns in their "paid" insurance for the "free" variety..

Health care research should be free, health care workers should work for free and virgins should be free...

All the people that work in the industry should be doing it as volunteer work I guess... Some of the brightest, most dedicated people in the American work force should be living in cardboard boxes so that some deadbeat can have everything at the expense of others..

A Govt making health insurance "Mandatory" at the threat of imprisonment? yea this is really a great deal for all Americans... Goes to show, no matter what you do, you will always find some idiot to "back" your program if you feed them enough propaganda...

I suppose jail should be free for those that are locked up for not paying the govt fines that will be imposed for "not having insurance" or paying additional taxes on premiums that some dill hole finds excessive...

There is so much wrong with this subject that it really does not even justify discussion... (by the way, they have snaked in abortion fees which might just pay off to those people sitting at home breeding just to gain a larger monthly handout check, if you can mandate insurance, you can mandate specific health care..)

Health care as a right.... as soon as you make smoking, drug use, obesity, and anything else that might compromise your health a felony... (seeings that not having "health insurance" will result in a felony charge at the end of the rainbow)

Thanks Bogus, you make a good case to rethink my statement about the quality of education now.

 

[Justyntym]

Healthcare should be a public service because a nation is stronger when the population is healthy.

Our will be stronger when people take responsibility for themselves, PERIOD.
Socialism is a nothing more than a downward spiral.

I keep thinking about my daughter who after years of college and effort is
graduation in may. Upon which when she is hired, she will not only be paying
for her own existance but paying back school loans, etc. and NOW, she
will ALSO have to pay $500 a month for 5 years and THEN Saphronia down the
street that never had a job, with 9 kids can have free health care and
somehow you think that will make us stronger as a nation...for what compassion... compassion how about SELF RELAINCE and RESPONSIBILITY.

You want to be compassionate...do with your money, not mine or my kids.
She could use that money, THAT SHE EARNED, to maybe buy a new car
and help the auto industry or a house...but no...

Socialism wont work because people suck, they are basically lazy, selfish,
and want something for nothing.

 

[lavinrac]

Healthcare should be a public service because a nation is stronger when the population is healthy.

While I will agree a nation COULD be better off when the population is healthy. But the betterment of a nation still rests on the shoulders of its peoples willingness to make it better, not expect someone else to do it for them or give it to them.


With the same logic you gave as to your reason I could say, Street walkers, both male and female, should be a public service because a nation is more productive when certain "NEEDS" are satisfied.