And I thought "Jobs" was the #1 priority
- Thread starter Justyntym
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BIG GUY
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I think Obama is just trying to stay with whats popular and what will get him the numbers that he wants. I don't believe anything that man or anyone from his team says. Every time that man opens his mouth you wonder if he is lying to you. I just get tired of hearing about him. All the talk he made about his guns and ammo bill sent everyone running and the only thing it did was raise the prices on everything.
afterhours
Registered
i should have known better...i had hoped you could have a discussion, but once again you have proven that people with your beliefs cannot.
the fact that you cannot accept a difference of opinion, and instead choose to find it an insult......is the reason why you are radical. thanks for proving my point.
while you may be "pro-god", that is a personal choice. I know that you been taught that all "good people", and all good americans do also. Cool, but the country was not founded on god, and by christian principles you are wrong. You are wrong on multiple levels.
While the Founding Fathers may have been christian, they took great care keep god out of the US Government. Why? because they knew first hand the dangers of a state sponsored government.
this country was founded on freedom....specifically Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. The freedom to live without the oppression of gov.
if we really want to look at why this country revolted against the crown, it was money and civil rights. Most people do not want to look at it, but the colonies were tired of being taxed, being ripped, and not having the rights of British subjects.
Secondly, you made two statements that are just incorrect.
1. most resonable Americans are and feel the same way I do
2. true Americans believe in the things I listed above
Most reasonable people do not feel the same way you do. If they did, elections would be split the way they are. National elections are split amazingly close to 45/45.....with a 5-10% group of undecided voters that cross over depending on the individual participants.
In fact to be more to your point, about killing babies.....most americans are in favor of a womans right to choose.
so once again you are wrong.
lastly, as a fellow conservative I hope with all my heart and soul that we do not allow our party to be taken over by the radicals. We are in a good position right now to take back some congressional seats, and even contend in the White House in 2012.....but not if we campaign on an anti-abortion campaign...
the reason you are a radical is becaue you would risk winning Congressional power, and even putting a conservative in the White House. risk losing 2nd ammendment rights and even....the relaxing of current abortion regulations if a liberal congress and White House stays in power over your anti-choice stance.
I'm not going to argue that this country was or wasn't founded as a "Christian Nation", but I am 100% sure it WAS founded on Christian VALUES. And those VALUES encompass more than one religion. Those values are the bedrock of a workable, sustainable society, and unfortunatly, many are lacking in ours today.
Abortion: Speaking from personal experience, I don't think that anyone that has never had a child has any say on this issue. Until you've actually HELD your own child in your own hands, does the entire concept of abortion hit home. And once you've held your OWN child and contemplate that against abortion, I don't think you could even get 10% to say they'd agree with it. Some of those that protest so loudly about right to choose have never had a child and therefore IMHO do not have the perspective to make the decision.
I only know that my perspective about it changed the day my daughter was born.
Abortion: Speaking from personal experience, I don't think that anyone that has never had a child has any say on this issue. Until you've actually HELD your own child in your own hands, does the entire concept of abortion hit home. And once you've held your OWN child and contemplate that against abortion, I don't think you could even get 10% to say they'd agree with it. Some of those that protest so loudly about right to choose have never had a child and therefore IMHO do not have the perspective to make the decision.
I only know that my perspective about it changed the day my daughter was born.
CPR_MCOCHRAN
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If that’s the definition of a radical right wing conservative, then sign me up! I'm full throttle right wing baby!!!
Screw Obama, Pellosi and Reid!
Screw Obama, Pellosi and Reid!afterhours
Registered
i can agree with you that this country was based on values, but i do not think those values are "Christian". as you state, those values are are the bedrock of civilization and have been the core of many different religions.
to say "This was founded on Christian values" implies that only Christians believe in Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....and that is not the case.
I believe abortion is a highly personal decision that each person must make on thier own. yes, most are changed by the experience of having a child, and yes it is an amazing experience.....however, that is not the same for everyone. Most of those that seek abortions do not see a child as a blessing, thier lives are not going to be better having the child. These women are usually young, unmarried, have little opportunities too successfully raise a child.
Forcing someone to have an unwanted child is sentencing them to a lifelong responsability they are not prepared for or even bale to handle. Some may say "you played, now you must pay" and i understand that......but you are also sentencing a child live a lifetime of poverty(maybe), or having to deal with the psychological effects of poor parents....
and the increased risk that they themselves will have unwanted pregnancy as they become older....
anyways, i really did not want to get into a discussion of the morality of abortion. I merely wanted to point out that this is a "hot" issue, and if we(conservatives) truely want to protect our rights, and take back this country. if we want to gain seats in Congress and the White House. We will have to make choices, the majority of the people(including conservatives) are not anti-abortion. many of the moderate swing voters we will need to attract will not vote for a radical, bible thumping and anti-abortion candidate.
I am in no way trying to say you are wrong, merely point out my opinion about what will be needed to win back control of this country....
J'Man
Registered
Actually, he is no more wrong or right than you. Both are opinions and you can't just quote voting percentages as a deciding factor alone on how everyone in America feels. Ever heard of the silent majority? Many out there choose not to vote (which I totally disagree with), while arguably the far left has been known to better mobilize their voting bases. I would even venture to say he's probably right, but I realize I'm bias being that according to your definition I'm also a radical. ??? Which is cool, but....
While it's normally interesting and entertaining to see your point of view (because it's going to be so different from mine) people would be much more receptive if you could share it in a way without insulting them. I can promise you that someone being insulted by your posts has absolutely nothing to do with being a radical. It could have something to do with the disrespect that is normally prevelant throughout your posts which is shame considering you seem to be pretty smart guy. Anyway, I'm off my soap box now. I just had to throw out my radical 2 cents.
Cheers!
afterhours
Registered
i will try to express myself in a less confrontational manner......
thanks.
thanks.
Mr Brown
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The values that this country were founded on are indeed very similar values to those of Christianity, but pre-date Christianity by thousands of years. The ten commandments that we recently had such a fuss over public display of are in fact Jewish, and absorbed into Christianity (and Islam actually) along with the rest of the Old Testament. This is not a Christian nation, and was never designed to be. Sure there are Christian ideals at the root of our justice system, but they are by no means exclusive to Christianity. If one considers abortion to be wrong, that person should not have one. If one considers homosexuality to be a sin, they should not engage in such behavior. The lumping together of fiscal conservatism and political responsibility with religious views is one of the things that has the republican party in such disarray currently. This was put into perspective by a guy I work with a couple of years back, when the boss came around asking for political support for a friend of his . When my co-worker was asked to sign a petition for a local democratic judge he refused to do so. When I later asked why, did he not like the guy or whatever he said "I would never vote for a democrat" "oh" I said, "why's that?" he looked straight at me and said "Because I'm a Christian". He was dead serious. I was utterly stunned by that response, and simply walked away. I cannot fathom the thought process of an individual who would base as important a decision simply on perceived values of a political party. I completely understand voting for a candidate based on their individual stance on an important personal issue, but to cover an entire party with the same blanket is absurd.
If the government is going to hand out taxpayer money (and both parties seem to be determined to do exactly that) I personally would rather it be given to individuals as opposed to corporations. That is the only difference I see between the two now. I came from a poor home, and my parents worked very hard to make our lives better, while retaining the Christian values they held dear. My father could have made a much better living teaching at a secular university, but he felt compelled to educate at biblical institutions. There were times that we would not have made it, had it not been for the assistance of others. My parents are highly educated, intelligent Christian people, and they taught me a healthy suspicion of authority, the need to ask questions of those who are or would be in charge and the importance of submitting to said authority when it is proven legitimate. "Because I said so" is something a parent says to a child, not what a government says to its people.
It should be our pleasure as relatively successful people (and most of us on the board are, we have computers, internet, leisure time/money) to help those who need it, and it should be our responsibility to fix the broken system so that it can no longer be taken advantage of by those who are too lazy to better themselves. I would help 100 people "working the system" in order to ensure that not one person who truly needs help has to go without.
Okay, I'm done ranting......
If the government is going to hand out taxpayer money (and both parties seem to be determined to do exactly that) I personally would rather it be given to individuals as opposed to corporations. That is the only difference I see between the two now. I came from a poor home, and my parents worked very hard to make our lives better, while retaining the Christian values they held dear. My father could have made a much better living teaching at a secular university, but he felt compelled to educate at biblical institutions. There were times that we would not have made it, had it not been for the assistance of others. My parents are highly educated, intelligent Christian people, and they taught me a healthy suspicion of authority, the need to ask questions of those who are or would be in charge and the importance of submitting to said authority when it is proven legitimate. "Because I said so" is something a parent says to a child, not what a government says to its people.
It should be our pleasure as relatively successful people (and most of us on the board are, we have computers, internet, leisure time/money) to help those who need it, and it should be our responsibility to fix the broken system so that it can no longer be taken advantage of by those who are too lazy to better themselves. I would help 100 people "working the system" in order to ensure that not one person who truly needs help has to go without.
Okay, I'm done ranting......
det45
Registered
You know what my friend, you couldn't be more wrong. I'm not saying that to you to insult you. We can throw examples of individual situations and beliefs all day long and accomplish nothing. You see this country, (not all of history prior to our country being founded) I'm talking about the United States of America. This country was founded on Christian principles and beliefs. Our U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights were designed to to protect us citizens. When we have elected officials in office who do not believe in these Christian principles or our constitution then erosion of our rights occur which is happening as I speak. To put it simply we are being over taxed, God is being removed from our school and currency, personal ethics in Washington are at a all time low, and our elected officials are only out for theirselves and their party. BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATES ARE GUILTY. People are tired of this therefore I believe this November is going to be the election of elections. In my opinion if we go back to the original Christian principles that our country was founded on and get rid of all these self serving elected officials then maybe we can get back to what this country was founded on, Christian Principles........det45
afterhours
Registered
What are Christian Principles?
I have read the Constitution, and Declaration of Independence and did not find "Christian Principles".
Please elaborate on what these Christian Rights are....
I have read the Constitution, and Declaration of Independence and did not find "Christian Principles".
Please elaborate on what these Christian Rights are....
det45
Registered
Just mentioning that I have a TS is not classified, just the details. Thanks for the mention anyway......det45
det45
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Mr Brown
Registered
Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly. The principles that this country, the United States of America, was founded on are not unique to Christianity, and pre-date the Christian religion by thousands of years. To say that simply because they are the same this is a Christian country is absurd. It's like aftermarket parts. Yes, they fit and do the job, but they are not OEM parts, no matter what you call them.
On another note, the founding fathers did not mention which God they were referring to when speaking of Him, it's an insult to all the other major belief systems out there for anyone to assume that they meant the Christian one. Had they intended that to be the case, they would have made that clear. They were wise enough to use a general term, thus not practicing the religious persecution the original pilgrims were attempting to escape. Freedom of religion is a basic right of this country, nowhere does it state what this religion is to be. Christianity is a belief, just like any and every other story, and just because we happen to believe it, doesn't make it factual. The existence of God, any God, cannot be proven. A belief cannot be proven by definition, when it can it becomes a fact. Christianity has no more factual basis than any other theory, religion or story and therefore carries no more empirical weight. You can profess the founding fathers values and structure as coinciding with Christianity, and you would be correct, but to state that this is a Christian country is an opinion, and a fallacious one at that.
I'm not insulted by your statement at all, it just isn't accurate.....
afterhours
Registered
please elaborate on your statement.(2nd request)
A furious health care push _ but what about jobs?
BEN FELLER
From Associated Press
March 06, 2010 12:53 PM EST
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama's furious, final push to get
a health care bill passed threatens to shove aside the message he promised
would top his list this year: creating jobs.
Even as the White House juggles several enormous issues at once, the public
takes its cues about the president's chief concern from how he spends his time,
energy and capital. As Obama himself put it on Wednesday, from now until
Congress takes a final vote on a health care overhaul, "I will do everything in
my power to make the case for reform."
That kind of now-or-never campaign means the nation can expect a debate
consumed by health care, again, for weeks.
The White House is trying mightily to focus it on real people and the human
cost of inaction. But there will be no escaping the same slog that turned off
so many people in 2009 — congressional process, arm-twisting and doomsday rhetoric.
So what unfolds over the next few weeks will affect millions of Americans and alter
the course of Obama's presidency. He has a shrinking window in which to find enough
votes within his party to pass health care legislation so he can free himself to spend
more bully pulpit time on the single issue that has stoked the public ire since he became
president — disappearing jobs.
Polling shows the economy remains a bigger personal worry to people than the cost,
access and coverage problems endemic to the health care system.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet again another example of how I beleive everything out of this man's mouth is
nothing more than a major load of bull crap and a guaranteed lie.
He really does believe the public is THAT stupid.
Gee...maybe the "doctors" standing behind him didn't actually work,
I found that little photo-op insulting.
And yes the founding fathers were Christians as are over 78% of Americans so yeah...
I'd say we are predominatly a Christian nation.
BEN FELLER
From Associated Press
March 06, 2010 12:53 PM EST
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama's furious, final push to get
a health care bill passed threatens to shove aside the message he promised
would top his list this year: creating jobs.
Even as the White House juggles several enormous issues at once, the public
takes its cues about the president's chief concern from how he spends his time,
energy and capital. As Obama himself put it on Wednesday, from now until
Congress takes a final vote on a health care overhaul, "I will do everything in
my power to make the case for reform."
That kind of now-or-never campaign means the nation can expect a debate
consumed by health care, again, for weeks.
The White House is trying mightily to focus it on real people and the human
cost of inaction. But there will be no escaping the same slog that turned off
so many people in 2009 — congressional process, arm-twisting and doomsday rhetoric.
So what unfolds over the next few weeks will affect millions of Americans and alter
the course of Obama's presidency. He has a shrinking window in which to find enough
votes within his party to pass health care legislation so he can free himself to spend
more bully pulpit time on the single issue that has stoked the public ire since he became
president — disappearing jobs.
Polling shows the economy remains a bigger personal worry to people than the cost,
access and coverage problems endemic to the health care system.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet again another example of how I beleive everything out of this man's mouth is
nothing more than a major load of bull crap and a guaranteed lie.
He really does believe the public is THAT stupid.
Gee...maybe the "doctors" standing behind him didn't actually work,
I found that little photo-op insulting.
And yes the founding fathers were Christians as are over 78% of Americans so yeah...
I'd say we are predominatly a Christian nation.
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Mr Brown
Registered
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet again another example of how I beleive everything out of this man's mouth is
nothing more than a major load of bull crap and a guaranteed lie.
He really does believe the public is THAT stupid.
Gee...maybe the "doctors" standing behind him didn't actually work,
I found that little photo-op insulting.
And yes the founding fathers were Christians as are over 78% of Americans so yeah...
I'd say we are predominatly a Christian nation.
Obama is continuing to erode my hopes that he would prove to be different than the typical politician, to be sure he has not made good on many of his campaign promises.
All politicians believe that we the public are that stupid, and we continue to prove them right.....
There is an argument to be made that we are a predominantly Christian nation, but there is a distinct difference between that and the intention of the founding fathers. This is also a predominantly white country, but other races are not to be marginalized or ignored because of that.
I think he is far worse than your "typical" politician...he is not only continuing
the failed policies...he's jamed his foot hard on the accelerator pedal.
Nothing I see him doing makes any sense except to ruin America to some
point of a global govt'.
How about shrinking govt' by half and cutting taxes across the board...paying back the
unused stimulas money, canning the "jobs" bill and paying back the money the
bank returned to cut a trillion dollars off the deficit...he could do that TOMORROW.
Oh no...we're going to keep pushing a gajillion dollar health care bill no one wants.
But I have 6 guys in doctors coats behind me...
the failed policies...he's jamed his foot hard on the accelerator pedal.
Nothing I see him doing makes any sense except to ruin America to some
point of a global govt'.
How about shrinking govt' by half and cutting taxes across the board...paying back the
unused stimulas money, canning the "jobs" bill and paying back the money the
bank returned to cut a trillion dollars off the deficit...he could do that TOMORROW.
Oh no...we're going to keep pushing a gajillion dollar health care bill no one wants.
But I have 6 guys in doctors coats behind me...
Mr Brown
Registered
Had he hit the brakes, the country would have sunk deeper into recession, and made the Great Depression look like a hiccup by comparison. He is trying to pull us out of the recession that he inherited, only time will tell if his plan works. The republicans are just pissed because instead of giving money and breaks to corporations, he is giving it to individuals. They weren't *****in when Bush gave out the money to banks and insurance companies that were too bit to fail.........I think he is far worse than your "typical" politician...he is not only continuing
the failed policies...he's jamed his foot hard on the accelerator pedal.
Nothing I see him doing makes any sense except to ruin America to some
point of a global govt'.
How about shrinking govt' by half and cutting taxes across the board...paying back the
unused stimulas money, canning the "jobs" bill and paying back the money the
bank returned to cut a trillion dollars off the deficit...he could do that TOMORROW.
Oh no...we're going to keep pushing a gajillion dollar health care bill no one wants.
But I have 6 guys in doctors coats behind me...
Just because you don't want the healthcare bill, doesn't mean the millions working without insurance don't.
He is certainly no worse than other politicians, but he may prove to be no better.
No...you can not spend your way to fiscal responsibility or out of financial trouble.
I am po'd he's giving money to ANYONE. WE DON'T HAVE IT.
Is your thinking along the lines of his claim of if we don't pass the stimulas
we MAY hit 9% unemployment...uh..it's 10% already and climbing. The "stimulas"
bill was joke and he's just piling more on top of it. The hiccup is comming regardless, he's
just turning it into a full on barf.
Let's look at this...millions working without health insurance...
Maybe if they are working they should BUY their own instead of wanting me
and my kids to do it for them...I buy mine.
Point 2...health insurance is not a right nor guaranteed by the consititution...
in fact, forcing me to buy a good to offset the cost of others getting it for free
is a violation of my civil rights.
Point 3...Regardless...we as country or as individuals CAN NOT AFFORD IT NOW.
Point 4....Anything and EVERYTHING the govt' gets it's claws into runs worse
and more expensive and far far less effecient. Smaller govt' and the system
will right itself. (this applies to everything)
In 1887, congress passed a bill appropriating money to texas farmers who suffered
through a catastrophic drought. Grover Cleveland veto'd the measure stating
there is no provision in the constitution that allowed for such action and
"the people should support the Government the Government should not support
the people". (Clevend was a Democrat BTW)
In 1964 we declared a "War on Poverty".
In 1968 13% of Americans were poor.
Form 1968 to 1980 we increased social welfare payments by 400%
In 1980 13% of Americans were poor.
People should learn to take care of themselves...btw President Clevend said not
to worry about the farmers, their community and the people of America will
help them and they did...they raised 10 times the amount proposed by Congress
for the bail out. THAT IS WHAT WE LOST...we look to the govt' instead of each
other. We lost the self relience and the feeling of community to help each other.
I am po'd he's giving money to ANYONE. WE DON'T HAVE IT.
Is your thinking along the lines of his claim of if we don't pass the stimulas
we MAY hit 9% unemployment...uh..it's 10% already and climbing. The "stimulas"
bill was joke and he's just piling more on top of it. The hiccup is comming regardless, he's
just turning it into a full on barf.
Let's look at this...millions working without health insurance...
Maybe if they are working they should BUY their own instead of wanting me
and my kids to do it for them...I buy mine.
Point 2...health insurance is not a right nor guaranteed by the consititution...
in fact, forcing me to buy a good to offset the cost of others getting it for free
is a violation of my civil rights.
Point 3...Regardless...we as country or as individuals CAN NOT AFFORD IT NOW.
Point 4....Anything and EVERYTHING the govt' gets it's claws into runs worse
and more expensive and far far less effecient. Smaller govt' and the system
will right itself. (this applies to everything)
In 1887, congress passed a bill appropriating money to texas farmers who suffered
through a catastrophic drought. Grover Cleveland veto'd the measure stating
there is no provision in the constitution that allowed for such action and
"the people should support the Government the Government should not support
the people". (Clevend was a Democrat BTW)
In 1964 we declared a "War on Poverty".
In 1968 13% of Americans were poor.
Form 1968 to 1980 we increased social welfare payments by 400%
In 1980 13% of Americans were poor.
People should learn to take care of themselves...btw President Clevend said not
to worry about the farmers, their community and the people of America will
help them and they did...they raised 10 times the amount proposed by Congress
for the bail out. THAT IS WHAT WE LOST...we look to the govt' instead of each
other. We lost the self relience and the feeling of community to help each other.
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