WelfareCare...it passed the Senate

[jdsbusa]

And there in is where personal responsibility comes into play.

ok, so you make a response to what I asked....but again, who polices that and why not make it a felony to put yourself in danger? Is it not fair since they want to threaten the public with imprisonment for not having healthcare?

 

[lavinrac]

My friend when you try to compare what a doctor of medicine does to a "street walker" you have lost me. Especially when you then go on to talk about morality.

I was not comparing the 2 choices of profession. It was a statement of how far fetched the whole idea sounds to me individually.

I do not condone street walking, I should have clarified that.

 

[Dino]

Dino since you're such a staunch supporter of Obama and everything the dems do, how do you respond to Bogus' theory of making acts that put ones' health in danger thereby requiring this "free" healthcare a felony? Things such as drug abuse, alcoholism, obesity....you feel it's right to provide free care for those that put themselves in that situation of requiring care yet it's a felony to NOT have healthcare? What happened to tit for tat?

I believe that health care should be provided to everyone. I am not happy with the bill that passed in the senate because it doesn't go far enough.

Drug abuse, Alcoholism and to some extent obesity are as much social issues as health care issues. So you can not treat the health aspects without addressing the social aspects.

To some extent no matter what you do there are going to be some you just can't beat the issue and truly have a disease. I would never suggest treating them any different. By the same token I would not subscribe the nothion that it be a crime not to have healthcare. In fact as I have said I do not think it should even be a choice, it should be provided just like emergency services.

 

[StromBusa]

This will leave a mark.

 

[Justyntym]

So you think they shouldn't tax us for healthcare or pay health insurance
and we shouldn't have to pay for services either....we just walkin and voila'
we're cured and it's free. ???

And I got your intent of the post above, that the drug user etc., isn't really
his fault he's a victim as well....

 

[jdsbusa]

I believe that health care should be provided to everyone. I am not happy with the bill that passed in the senate because it doesn't go far enough.

Drug abuse, Alcoholism and to some extent obesity are as much social issues as health care issues. So you can not treat the health aspects without addressing the social aspects.

To some extent no matter what you do there are going to be some you just can't beat the issue and truly have a disease. I would never suggest treating them any different. By the same token I would not subscribe the nothion that it be a crime not to have healthcare. In fact as I have said I do not think it should even be a choice, it should be provided just like emergency services.

Then where do you draw the line? It seems when it comes down to it and things get hairy you get real gray....nothing is black and white anymore. Social issue talk.....I asked a pointed question. The bill is what it is....you support the dems, they are who passed it.....so is it not fair to hold those accountable for creating the situation of needing healthcare? Let me rephrase it.....how about we all decide to go out and get speeding tickets for 100mph over the limit - should you pay our fines out of your tax dollars due to our own irresponsibility? That's what it boils down to...drug abuse (and all the other self-induced problems) is not a social issue, it's irresponsibility when it comes down to getting free health care for the adverse health problems it creates.

 

[jdsbusa]

And I got your intent of the post above, that the drug user etc., isn't really
his fault he's a victim as well....

Careful.....you're starting to think like someone else here.... (see post immediately above)

 

[PDBusa]

I just want to know if they are also helping to "fund" this crap. They say they are taxing the "cadillac plans" heavily. I would assume that this would include the health care plansof Congress? Or are they just going for the government run plan? Oh wait, do they even pay taxes?
Please, this legislation was rammed down the throats of Americans, and it makes me want to vomit.

Oh, quick, everybody move to Nebraska. What a deal they got for a Yes vote in the Senate!

 

[m_ridgeway]

 

[Projekt]

Treating national healthcare like some kind of tragedy is a shameful way to act on this so called holiday. Particularly because of all the dissent funded by the health industry to protect it's bottom line. Healthcare is no longer run by genuine doctors, rather by bean counting profit and denial oriented zombies.. May your mothers and families fall on hard times only to become ill.. Then you might change your minds instead of calling them dead weights... Merry Christmas.. ???

 

[Mr Bogus]

anyone in health care or insurance can poke in here and add but so far in my few years working in the field..

Walk into most any orthopedic group office... obesity is the norm.. easily 80% of the people sitting in these offices are morbidly obese.. (knee and other serious joint issues)

Yes there are a number of sports injuries but they are easily outnumbered by issues of weight

Unreal how many just feed their faces until they end up damaging their bodies.. Our office sees some 3000 plus patients (specialty practice) and again by far the vast majority of our patients are just plain FAT...

They end up with COPD , hypertension , asthma, diabetes, and a slew of other ailments due to lousy life style, eating habits and just plain lack of exercise.. (mostly self inflicted)

That is even before booze, drugs, smoking and other poor lifestyle choices are figured in..

Add on top of that, the numbers of people that run to the Dr because they had a runny nose or they sneezed... Others just think they "might" be getting sick..

In our office alone this is well into 6 figures a month in insurance claims... Add to that the ones that just want Rx's for drugs, Dr's notes for being off work, lifetime disability claims and the list just goes on and on.. It is a cavalcade of "pseudo sickos"

You wonder why it turns into a business run by the $$? it is because so many entering the system should not even be there.. how do you expect the professionals to take it serious?

In there we see a few patients a week that are really sick by bad fortune... (like something genetic, or a real bug).. They get short changed on time with the Dr, testing and genuine health care while all the "turds" are taken care of..

And what makes a Dr any better than a street walker? his parents had more money for an education?

I think you would do better to give everyone free educations.. god knows most teachers get paid squat to start with.. And then put the parents that allow the kids to screw off in school in jail instead of people not being able to pay for health care insurance.. Kids are products of their parents upbringing..

Socialist joke... "you get what you pay for.. "

Now here is a little girl that just spent her second birthday in ICU and is currently undergoing a brain biopsy as complications arise from her 4th liver transplant..

Link no longer works Hang in there kiddo!!

 

[Justyntym]

Treating national healthcare like some kind of tragedy is a shameful way to act on this so called holiday. Particularly because of all the dissent funded by the health industry to protect it's bottom line. Healthcare is no longer run by genuine doctors, rather by bean counting profit and denial oriented zombies.. May your mothers and families fall on hard times only to become ill.. Then you might change your minds instead of calling them dead weights... Merry Christmas.. ???

??????

Let me tell you something, my father was a vet and my mother worked her
whole life and at the age 76 still pays (out of her measly $1100 social security)
for HER OWN SUPPLIMENTAL INSURANCE.

F the dead weights, the BS, and your so called compassion with our money.
Some people need grow the hell up and have the apron strings cut once and for
all. Take personal responsibility for exactly where you (speaking rhetoricall)
are today and knock off the bleeding heart BullshT and "product of the environment"
excuses. Nobody owes anybody a darn thing.

Regardless, I don't wish hardships on anybody ???

Now I certainly have my issues with insurance companies and the current
practice...but involving the govt' into the mix injecting thievery and socialism
is not a solution. And there is your tragedy, any time we move away from
our constitution and self accountability into Socialism or any other ism
it is a TRAGEDY.

 

[Mr Bogus]

Treating national healthcare like some kind of tragedy is a shameful way to act on this so called holiday. Particularly because of all the dissent funded by the health industry to protect it's bottom line. Healthcare is no longer run by genuine doctors, rather by bean counting profit and denial oriented zombies.. May your mothers and families fall on hard times only to become ill.. Then you might change your minds instead of calling them dead weights... Merry Christmas.. ???

how many years of schooling does it take to become a doctor?
how many wash out before they finish
how many default on their loans after they wash out?
Who pays this shortfall from washouts?
How many years into a doctors career is he before he is making money enough to pay his school debt?
What is the annual cost of running a doctors practice?
How much revenue is required of a doctor each day to break even? (rent, insurance, staff wages, equipment, utilities, CEU's)

Yea it is a $$ oriented biz.. it has to be.. (unless someone wants to start giving out free school, office space, staff, and insurance)

Yes, they are fighting to protect their incomes... It is easy to sit back and cry "free" when you are not the one that owes more in school debt than many will ever make in a lifetime..

reality bites sometimes but it is still there...

May your mothers and families fall on hard times only to become ill.

and if it makes you feel better , the little girl in the previous post is my Grand daughter... she is blind right now from brain swelling (complications from surgery)... Her dad has been in med school for 8 years with little to no income.. so careful what you wish on others...

 

[Projekt]

anyone in health care or insurance can poke in here and add but so far in my few years working in the field..

Walk into most any orthopedic group office... obesity is the norm.. easily 80% of the people sitting in these offices are morbidly obese.. (knee and other serious joint issues)

Yes there are a number of sports injuries but they are easily outnumbered by issues of weight

Unreal how many just feed their faces until they end up damaging their bodies.. Our office sees some 3000 plus patients (specialty practice) and again by far the vast majority of our patients are just plain FAT...

They end up with COPD , hypertension , asthma, diabetes, and a slew of other ailments due to lousy life style, eating habits and just plain lack of exercise.. (mostly self inflicted)

That is even before booze, drugs, smoking and other poor lifestyle choices are figured in..

Add on top of that, the numbers of people that run to the Dr because they had a runny nose or they sneezed... Others just think they "might" be getting sick..

In our office alone this is well into 6 figures a month in insurance claims... Add to that the ones that just want Rx's for drugs, Dr's notes for being off work, lifetime disability claims and the list just goes on and on.. It is a cavalcade of "pseudo sickos"

You wonder why it turns into a business run by the $$? it is because so many entering the system should not even be there.. how do you expect the professionals to take it serious?

In there we see a few patients a week that are really sick by bad fortune... (like something genetic, or a real bug).. They get short changed on time with the Dr, testing and genuine health care while all the "turds" are taken care of..

And what makes a Dr any better than a street walker? his parents had more money for an education?

I think you would do better to give everyone free educations.. god knows most teachers get paid squat to start with.. And then put the parents that allow the kids to screw off in school in jail instead of people not being able to pay for health care insurance.. Kids are products of their parents upbringing..

Socialist joke... "you get what you pay for.. "

Now here is a little girl that just spent her second birthday in ICU and is currently undergoing a brain biopsy as complications arise from her 4th liver transplant..

Link no longer works Hang in there kiddo!!

Points taken.. Makes you want to triage all the "turds" and have some menial staffer give them notes and lollipops!

 

[Projekt]

??????

Let me tell you something, my father was a vet and my mother worked her
whole life and at the age 76 still pays (out of her measly $1100 social security)
for HER OWN SUPPLIMENTAL INSURANCE.

F the dead weights, the BS, and your so called compassion with our money.
Some people need grow the hell up and have the apron strings cut once and for
all. Take personal responsibility for exactly where you (speaking rhetoricall)
are today and knock off the bleeding heart BullshT and "product of the environment"
excuses. Nobody owes anybody a darn thing.

Regardless, I don't wish hardships on anybody ???

Now I certainly have my issues with insurance companies and the current
practice...but involving the govt' into the mix injecting thievery and socialism
is not a solution. And there is your tragedy, any time we move away from
our constitution and self accountability into Socialism or any other ism
it is a TRAGEDY.

Bah Humbug!

 

[Justyntym]

And I submit a large portion of the Dr.'s gross income goes to his
malpractice insurance. Which a few decades ago, was probably quite a bit
less...ahhhh...but here you have the dead weights wanting something for
nothing (and the bloodsucking lawyers) sueing for every thing possible
(and it's not just doctors).

So, I submit that the freeloaders I complain about are partially to blame for
the cost of healthcare to begin with. Which goes back to my people suck
premise...

 

[Mr Bogus]

Points taken.. Makes you want to triage all the "turds" and have some menial staffer give them notes and lollipops!

sad to say that the "turds" out number the legit cases by a wide margin in the practices I see.. They are there for hand holding, notes and lollipops .. is sickening to see and by giving them a free reign to health care? it is going to get worse and the most needy cases are going to get even less care due to lack of resources.. (will be denied because the $$ was used up by other cases)

 

[Mr Bogus]

And I submit a large portion of the Dr.'s gross income goes to his
malpractice insurance. Which a few decades ago, was probably quite a bit
less...ahhhh...but here you have the dead weights wanting something for
nothing (and the bloodsucking lawyers) sueing for every thing possible
(and it's not just doctors).

So, I submit that the freeloaders I complain about are partially to blame for
the cost of healthcare to begin with. Which goes back to my people suck
premise...

the dirty secret is that some people visit doctors hoping for shoddy care so they can "earn" a malpractice settlement... (and they were not really sick to start with).. The upside is that the courts are going to start denying malpractice suits pretty fast because the company providing the insurance is always included in the suit.. (the govt now)..


anyway... Merry Christmas... going it alone this year while Karen is off to Nashville to be with the grand daughter , hopefully she pulls through to the New Year... (then we just go from there)...

 

[Projekt]

And I submit a large portion of the Dr.'s gross income goes to his
malpractice insurance. Which a few decades ago, was probably quite a bit
less...ahhhh...but here you have the dead weights wanting something for
nothing (and the bloodsucking lawyers) sueing for every thing possible
(and it's not just doctors).

So, I submit that the freeloaders I complain about are partially to blame for
the cost of healthcare to begin with. Which goes back to my people suck
premise...

no doubt about that.. Bloodsucking lawyers are bad for business but think about how many major issues have been corrected by the suits? People used to be treated like guinea pigs with little say in the course of their treatment. Yeah it all sucks.. Let's go back to the days of barbers doing all the medical procedures..

 

[Mr Brown]

Justyntym, why don't you say what you really feel about the president? Don't be scared to let your true feelings come out. Your thinly veiled comments are becoming tiresome.
You speak of the president in the most disrespectful terms you. Weren't you ever taught that you respect the rank (or in this case the office) not the man? Regardless of whether he meets your standard of being the leader of this country, he won the election and is your president. He isn't running the budget any worse than Bush, he is just spending the money in different places. Why weren't you singing this tune when Bush bailed out the banks or privatized the war?
FYI the Soviet Union wasn't socialist, it was comunist. Communism failed. Socialist countries exist still.
The poorest of our society already have free healthcare. This bill doesn't mean that your daughter has to pay extra for her brown-skinned neighbor across town, we all share that burden currently.
Contrary to your evident belief, it's not just minorities that abuse the systems that were put in place to help the needy........Social security is a socialist concept, should we remove that from your mother?

On a different note, Social Security and the Civil Rights legislation weren't accepted in their original forms, it took several revisions to make them functional. And I think we can all (well most of us) agree that those are good things. This bill is a good starting place, and I'm glad it's working.