hayabusa in twisties

[outlawbusa]

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Tufbusa I got my new set of Shinkos installed...how bout you?
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[Tufbusa]

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Tufbusa I got my new set of Shinkos installed...how bout you?
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Hey, I've got your "Shinko" right here!

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:kiss:



:sneaky2:

 

[raydog]

Honestly, if our Busa's are cornering as well as the 1k bikes, they don't know how to ride. There's no comparison between a busa and any of the 1ks on the corners.

Oh really? I think the guy on the R-1 in the below pic would disagree with you. You shouldn't make blanket statements like that. Raydog

 

[SoCal Blur]

Oh really? I think the guy on the R-1 in the below pic would disagree with you. You shouldn't make blanket statements like that. Raydog

Sweet! That's what I like to see!

 

[Tufbusa]

Oh really? I think the guy on the R-1 in the below pic would disagree with you. You shouldn't make blanket statements like that. Raydog

Doyle, you best get your sh-itz together on that thing before you hurt yourself.

With your body position all crossed up like that you are most likely creating a negative impact on the bike. Your upper body is much heavier than your lower body. With the body position in this photo the bike would like you much better if you sat straight up in the saddle and just leaned with the bike. Draw a straight line through the front tire/headlight and look where your head is. Your head should be on the inside of the line. You will never go fast until you correct your body position.

I worked with GregBob all summer one season to convert him from your position to his current position you see in the photo. He went from being as screwed up as Hogan's Goat to looking like a moto GP rider. You can do the same if you get proper instruction and put the time in to master body position. Body position is the foundation for good riding.

I don't want to see you get hurt my friend!

 

[raydog]

Doyle, you best get your sh-itz together on that thing before you hurt yourself.

With your body position all crossed up like that you are most likely creating a negative impact on the bike. Your upper body is much heavier than your lower body. With the body position in this photo the bike would like you much better if you sat straight up in the saddle and just leaned with the bike. Draw a straight line through the front tire/headlight and look where your head is. Your head should be on the inside of the line. You will never go fast until you correct your body position.

I worked with GregBob all summer one season to convert him from your position to his current position you see in the photo. He went from being as screwed up as Hogan's Goat to looking like a moto GP rider. You can do the same if you get proper instruction and put the time in to master body position. Body position is the foundation for good riding.

I don't want to see you get hurt my friend!

I am very humble about motorcycling Steven, including quality advice from knowledgable coaches such as yourself. I would offer, however, one snapshot of me does not offer an adequate window into my riding skills. For example, the pic above looks like I am fixed in that body position when, in fact, I have come from the outside and am closing on the late apex of turn 4/5 @ Thunderhill. If sequence shots of this corner existed, you would see me continue to gracefully place my body to the inside of the motorcycle and create a smooth drive out, the motorcycle not even knowing my body moved. I speak to this because that particular segment of track is where I am the safest and fastest of all tracks I ride. It is awkward for me to respond to this because it sounds like defensive sniveling but I felt I must answer you in as respectful an answer as possible. I'm sure if you watched me ride in realtime you could offer scores of meaningful suggestions to improve my performance and I would be a truly committed learner of your advice. Doyle

 

[sixpack577]

Oh really? I think the guy on the R-1 in the below pic would disagree with you. You shouldn't make blanket statements like that. Raydog

What's wrong with what he said?
Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic.
It's easier to get through the same turn on a narrower bike with a shorter wheelbase.
I think you just have more skill than the guy on the R1.

 

[raydog]

What's wrong with what he said?
Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic.
It's easier to get through the same turn on a narrower bike with a shorter wheelbase.
I think you just have more skill than the guy on the R1.

"There's NO COMPARISON between a Busa and any of the 1k's in the corners". I'm sorry but if I've ridden my Busa 35 different track days on 4 different tracks in 2 states....that's ALL that happens when I ride it, comparison, comparison, camparison. I don't pass the 1k's I pass soley because I'm a better rider, my Hayabusa is fast and an EXCELLENT handling motorcycle.

"If Busas are cornering faster than 1k's, they don't know how to ride". That is too general a statement, you can't say just because you get passed by a Busa on the track you don't know how to ride....that's simply an inaccurate statement. I've passed many bikes on the tracks piloted by fine riders and am not willing to say I'm "better" than them all.

And finally, if a top tier racer rides a stock literbike (Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, MV, Duc, etc.) and a Hayabusa on the same track under the same conditions, of course the literbike will undercut the Busa by many seconds, his post was way too general and non specific for me to not respond! I think these conversations need to address specific aftermarket treatments, GVW, and the like to be accurate. Raydog

 

[Tufbusa]

Doyle, I'm not being disrespectful by any means. I'm sharing what I see for your own good. Cameras don't lie. The more photos you can get of yourself the better you can critique and actually the only way you can critique yourself. In both of those photos you posted up (Two seperate photos with the same body position), you should never have been in that position at that point in the turn with the bike leaned that far over under any circumstance. Actually, you should never be in that body position unless you are straight up braking. The way to think you are riding and the way you are actually riding is most likely two different things.

That crossed up body position has placed limits on your corner speed as well as limits on your bike to perform at it's best. If you've never had any professional coaching I'm sure body position is not the only bad habbit you should overcome but it's like nicotine, probably the most difficult.

It took me working with Greg all season to get his body position to look like it does. I kept telling Greg, "Get your head down" and he'd say "I do have my head down". Greg still giggles about that and says "I thought you were as goofy as a pet coon" when you kept hounding me about my head. It took Greg a long time and lots of coaching to catch on but as you can see in his photos, he finally got it. And once you catch on, it all starts to click and make sense.

The faster you get Doyle, the more fun it becomes. The more you learn, the more you want to learn. Hiring yourself a coach to critique you would be the best thing you could do in order to advance your skills.

Trust me Doyle, we all have bad habbits and I've had every bad habbit known to mankind and still have more than my fair share!

 

[sixpack577]

"There's NO COMPARISON between a Busa and any of the 1k's in the corners". I'm sorry but if I've ridden my Busa 35 different track days on 4 different tracks in 2 states....that's ALL that happens when I ride it, comparison, comparison, camparison. I don't pass the 1k's I pass soley because I'm a better rider, my Hayabusa is fast and an EXCELLENT handling motorcycle.

"If Busas are cornering faster than 1k's, they don't know how to ride". That is too general a statement, you can't say just because you get passed by a Busa on the track you don't know how to ride....that's simply an inaccurate statement. I've passed many bikes on the tracks piloted by fine riders and am not willing to say I'm "better" than them all.

And finally, if a top tier racer rides a stock literbike (Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, MV, Duc, etc.) and a Hayabusa on the same track under the same conditions, of course the literbike will undercut the Busa by many seconds, his post was way too general and non specific for me to not respond! I think these conversations need to address specific aftermarket treatments, GVW, and the like to be accurate. Raydog

I know that if you get passed by a Busa while on a 1000 it doesn't mean the guy on the 1000 can't ride. As I said "I think you just have more skill than the guy on the R1".
I didn't take his post as offensive in that manner, just a general statement that was misunderstood. Of course that was just my take on it, and why I asked you the question.
I don't however think it takes a top tier rider to feel the difference between the Busa and a 1000 in curves though(as I can tell).
I have never been on track(yet), and I claim no knowledge about such either.
I can drag a knee and keep up with local ametuer class track guys through the mountains here.
I can definately tell that my Busa will not go through decreasing radious turns as quickly as my 1000 would.
As I cannot keep the same pace with riders at my level on my Busa as I could/can on a 1000.
I also feel that my Busa handles excellent, all things considered. Stock suspension, but with the sag set it handles perfectly for me at 195lbs in leathers.
I guess I hit a nerve with you with my question, which was not my intention.
My appollogies.

 

[raydog]

Doyle, I'm not being disrespectful by any means. I'm sharing what I see for your own good. Cameras don't lie. The more photos you can get of yourself the better you can critique and actually the only way you can critique yourself. In both of those photos you posted up (Two seperate photos with the same body position), you should never have been in that position at that point in the turn with the bike leaned that far over under any circumstance. Actually, you should never be in that body position unless you are straight up braking. The way to think you are riding and the way you are actually riding is most likely two different things.

That crossed up body position has placed limits on your corner speed as well as limits on your bike to perform at it's best. If you've never had any professional coaching I'm sure body position is not the only bad habbit you should overcome but it's like nicotine, probably the most difficult.

It took me working with Greg all season to get his body position to look like it does. I kept telling Greg, "Get your head down" and he'd say "I do have my head down". Greg still giggles about that and says "I thought you were as goofy as a pet coon" when you kept hounding me about my head. It took Greg a long time and lots of coaching to catch on but as you can see in his photos, he finally got it. And once you catch on, it all starts to click and make sense.

The faster you get Doyle, the more fun it becomes. The more you learn, the more you want to learn. Hiring yourself a coach to critique you would be the best thing you could do in order to advance your skills.

Trust me Doyle, we all have bad habbits and I've had every bad habbit known to mankind and still have more than my fair share!

Thanks for your advice Steven.

 

[ssgunny]

Like many have said go back to stock before you start your spirited rides in the curves. Work on your sag adjustments to stiffen the suspension. This will help to keep parts from dragging but if you are a heavy rider and/or can get the bike leaned over pretty well it is inevitable. After adjusting mine and taking her on a ride I was still close to full compression of my forks...not good and it probably didn't help that I was on 9 year old fork oil. I had the front resprung with heavier rate springs from Traxxion Dynamics. I also went up 1" in the rear since I didn't like how the bike sat with the stiffer springs up front. Even on the original rear spring/shock combo the bike felt REALLY good...to this novice. I had no problems holding my own versus the locals here on 1k's and below before. After the changes I was putting multiple bike lengths on them after each run.

I ended up finding the limits of the road before the limits of my riding ability so save the serious riding for the track.

 

[raydog]

I know that if you get passed by a Busa while on a 1000 it doesn't mean the guy on the 1000 can't ride. As I said "I think you just have more skill than the guy on the R1".
I didn't take his post as offensive in that manner, just a general statement that was misunderstood. Of course that was just my take on it, and why I asked you the question.
I don't however think it takes a top tier rider to feel the difference between the Busa and a 1000 in curves though(as I can tell).
I have never been on track(yet), and I claim no knowledge about such either.
I can drag a knee and keep up with local ametuer class track guys through the mountains here.
I can definately tell that my Busa will not go through decreasing radious turns as quickly as my 1000 would.
As I cannot keep the same pace with riders at my level on my Busa as I could/can on a 1000.
I also feel that my Busa handles excellent, all things considered. Stock suspension, but with the sag set it handles perfectly for me at 195lbs in leathers.
I guess I hit a nerve with you with my question, which was not my intention.
My appollogies.

No nerve hit! If you follow my posting style through the years, I'm obsessive about being specific and love to "wring out" comments. For example, the Gen II vrs Gen I "wars" or Chinese parts vrs European parts....the fun is in the disecting of what is said and seperating "my opinion is so strong, it's fact for me" from data driven information and real testing results. I make mistakes all the time!
Re: the 1000 vrs Busa handling question.....when I ride a friend's 1000 (including the track) my first thought is always, "wow, if I owned this thing, I could learn to go really fast on it, it's so light!" No doubt about that. Over the past 5 years I've constantly improved my Busa and honestly, it's not representative of the typical Busa's handling. I'm not a high A rider (just ask Tufbusa!)but have been followed off the track on more than a few occasions by non Busas who just want to confirm that that big ol seat hump that just passed them was, in fact, a Busa! So anyways, that's resulted in making me real quick to defend us minority Busa track riders when any comments are made, kind of a self appointed ambassador I guess. It's sort of like keeping up with some of the new exotic track cars in a 1966 427 Corvette then enjoying the accolades with all the drivers later in the coffee shop!

I have a buddy with a 600 race bike and have been on the track with him so, believe me, I know where I stand in the pecking order! Doyle

 

[motochris]

Keep it Up Doyle. I enjoy reading your comments. Hope to ride with you on the track one day. :thumbup:

 

[Black Sheep]

So many variables determine riding well. Tough to say a broad statement is true for every rider, every track. Be safe out there, so you can continue to improve skill/ability. Ya'll get to the bash so we can ride it out!

 

[pack mule]

I hope to one day be able to find that excellent body positioning that Gregbob is demo in the picture. I'm working on it, but old habits want to creep back in. Here is one from last years bash

 

[Tufbusa]

I hope to one day be able to find that excellent body positioning that Gregbob is demo in the picture. I'm working on it, but old habits want to creep back in. Here is one from last years bash

You are a tad crossed up but not bad. If I were coaching you I'd tell you to straighten out your outside arm and lay it on the tank. This would get your head down a bit and move your upper body more to the inside to align your spin with the bike. Your inside forearm should be at least parallel or slightly below the clipon.

The best advise I could give you from your photo is: "If you are going to ride that fat girl hard (Street or Track) don't wait until after the crash to upgrade your touring tires"!

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

I can say one thing hands down....Liter bikes and 600s stop WAAAAY better than a Busa. I'll offer up mine for the free coaching...Tuf, you have to make it down here this year.

 

[pack mule]

You are a tad crossed up but not bad. If I were coaching you I'd tell you to straighten out your outside arm and lay it on the tank. This would get your head down a bit and move your upper body more to the inside to align your spin with the bike. Your inside forearm should be at least parallel or slightly below the clipon.

The best advise I could give you from your photo is: "If you are going to ride that fat girl hard (Street or Track) don't wait until after the crash to upgrade your touring tires"!

Thanks for the advice. I did remove my risers that way I can get my arms on the tank(before it did feel right coming down at that angle). I would love to run pure sport tires but riding back and forth from work requires the dual compound tires. I'm running roadsmarts right now, may put a Q2 front with the roadsmart rear as warm weather returns.

 

[Tufbusa]

I'd be happy to come play with you guys but I'm fearful that all three of you guys would roast me on the board afterwards. Since every member of the "Team Gixxer" has a camera mounted it would be difficult to defend myself when all three lapped me

Looking at your photos it appears you are twisting your hips around the tank which makes it harder to get your upper body off. I ride like that sometimes myself if I have my head down and going hard. Here is the trick, lower your inside shoulder down in order to get your upper body off the bike. If you have your shoulder lowered it forces you to turn your head much farther. You'll find your chin almost out over your shoulder. While you are reading this, turn your head as far as possible to the side and see where your chin is in relationship to your shoulder. This is difficult for some folks expecially with a helmet on. I'd suggest you straighten your hips out and keep your pelvis squared up with the bike for now.

Don't slide your hips off to far, just one cheek off the seat is perfect. The crack of you bum should be along the edge of your seat. Most people who slide off as far as they can do this because their mind is on getting their knee down more than controlling the bike. Don't think about getting your knee down. Hang the inside leg out to assist in braking and turn in. Let you knee become a guage for lean angle.

Once your hips are under control and properly positioned, then concentrate on your chest. Open your chest up to the corner. Turn it as far as you can without locking your outside arm. Your outside arm should be on the tank and slightly bent. Look at your photos where your outside arm is located. It's bent at a right angle and no where near the tank. If your outside arm is not touching the tank you don't have your head low enough. Like I suggested to Doyle, get your head down! The only time your head should be up is during braking. Watch the professional racers (Danny Eslick is my favorite) and try to memic them.

You have come a long way in a short time. Getting your body position mastered will give you a good foundation to build skill on!

One of the major contributors to poor riding skills is conditioning. Riding well is hard work. Not being in the best condition contributes heavily to bad habits. As a whole, we tend to be lazy, taking the path of least resistance. It's much less stressful on the body to ride all crossed up and if we tend to be a little lazy, that's how we ride. I do that myself at times especially if I'm tired towards the end of the day. My advise is, if you want to ride well get yourself into decent physical condition. Bicycling is IMO the best single means of physically preparing for the track.

Let me point out also that getting off the bike to far drains your energy more rapidly than using just one cheek. Guys who slide way off the bike use twice as much energy as the one cheekers do.

Get all the pictures you can Charlie. Comparing your photos as time goes along really helps in making you aware of what you need to correct. Have Keith follow you close with his camera at least one session of every track day and be honest with yourself during the critiquing process. When you are working on body position, slow down a notch or two and give your brain time to analyze your work. If you are going balls out your brain is struggling to keep up and cannot process the information thoroughly.

Now you are welcome to spank me for being critical

And YesSir, I intend to come visit the Team Gixxer at Barber. Maybe in October?