help the marine that killed the insurgent enemy

[ralnsplder]

...but...but...They started it

Seriously though; How can you tell who the fugg you're fighting over there.  I say we use restraint/caution during the first couple of days of an attack, then whoever has NOT left the area is fair fuggin game.

Take the gloves off of our troops and let them kick some a$$.  The ragheads are just a bunch of chicken shiot cowards.  They don't have the guts to stand toe-to-toe and fight like a nation.  They have to resort to terrorist tactics.

Put a few Snipers of our own out there with some thermal imaging and night scopes and let them walk around wondering all of the time.  We'll see how trigger happy they get.

I can't vote from work...Gov't PC

<span style='color:orange'>EDIT:  These opinions are only mine, and in no way reflect the opinions of my employer.</span>

so when they blew up the world trade center everyone in New York should have just up and moved?

?

??

I think that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. just because something happens in your town doesn't mean you have to leave, if that was the case there would never be wars, once we got there everyone would just packup and go somewhere. And where exactly are these people to go? You can't blame everyone and say that everyone is guilty just because they are from the same race and that is what you are saying. Basically if they want to live in their own homes, they must be terrorists.

What about Timothy Mcveigh?? he was an american and killed 168 americans, should we just start killing all ex military?? I mean they all Might blow up a building or 2

 

[thrasherfox]

Dang people take a fricken chill.

Either sign the petition or don't sign it.

As for me.. I signed it.. I am right.. everyone who disagrees with me is wrong. And I know what the fugg I am talking about because I am close to the pulse.

Sheesh. I cant believe I started a fricken thread and I only put three lines on it and it has gotten to this point of harsh words and everyone trying to prove they are right. It don't matter, it is just a petition in support of some Marine that is over in a combat environment risking his life and being shot at so everyone here in the United States can sit on their fat A$$'s and ride their Busa's and screw Mary Rotten crotch in happiness.

If you don't want to support this Marine who is eating dust day and night, being shot at, losing friends then don't. Don't sign the petition, just forget about him, go jump on your Busa and go for a ride. No one will know, and probably no one cares.

I didn't put the fricken petition up to cause $hit.. and I didn't put it up so everyone can fricken disagree and argue

Which one of you would turn your back on a family member in need? if any of you had a son and he screwed up and was going to jail for it.. would you write him off? would you turn your back on him? would you call him names and spit on him?

No you fricken wouldn't. you might not approve of what he did, and you might tell him so, and you might even turn him into the police yourself.

But after that, you would probably stand beside him, support him and let him know you cared.

That to me is what this petition is about. It was not about innocent or guilty, it was about supporting a comrade, a son and might I add someone who is not a criminal. Someone who was probably so freaked out, sleep deprived, emotionally charged because of the environment, AND was without a doubt facing enemy combatants.

And there is no doubt at all the person he shot was an enemy combatant.

Those of you who are in Iraq and Afghanistan, I respect your comments. If you disagree and want to say something negative about this Marine, then you are earning that right and I will respect your opinions.

Anyone else who wants to slam this Marine and has never been in combat and is not currently in combat, you have not earned the right to speak badly of a Marine fighting on our behalf.

Further more, they need to get the reporters out. They shouldn’t be there. Would have been a real shame if the reporter would have accidentally ended up with a round in his head. Which is something else you all need to fricken realize, if this Marine is as jacked up as you are saying he is, we never would have heard about this story. The Marine would have plugged the enemy combatant, took the enemy's weapon, plugged the reporter, destroyed the video and stepped out of the Mosque and told his superior a sad thing happened, the reporter was shot by the enemy and he had to shoot the enemy.

Geee that would have solved all this and no one would have been wiser.

Sign the petition or don’t. then go ride your Busa in freedom.

And don’t worry people, the Marine will probably be fed to the wolves to satisfy the public scrutiny and his life will probably be ruined forever because in a split instance he might have made the wrong decision because he was in an environment most of you that are criticizing will never know.

 

[ralnsplder]

Thrash, I see your point and I know what you are talking about as well. I too am close to this. I am active army and the units over here are currently deployed to Afganastan and Iraq. There are 4 people on my street alone that have either had their family member die or come back really messed up. So yes I know what I am talking about too. My next door neighbors husband just got back from being hit with a roadside bomb, they didnt think he would walk again. another lady we know that lives 3 doors down just lost her husband 2 weeks ago. I agree and support everyone over there and what they are doing, but i have also seen what happens when soldiers get it in their head that they can kill at will. you being DOD you should remeber about 2 yrs ago when 8 service members came back from iraq to find their wives cheating and the soldiers killed them for it. There were 8 deaths at Ft Bragg alone in a 2 month period. If a cop made the same split decision and shot and killed someone just because th thought they might have a weapon, do you not agree he would have to go through the same thing? I just think what he did sends the wrong message to everyone about the united states and what we stand for. That split second decission that he made will probably cause a lot more anger against the soldiers that are still there, whick could lead to more attacks. You should know that in the military, everything that we do is looked apon and reflects the military as a whole, not just the individual. When the world looks down on that soldier they are looking down on our military and our country also.

 

[ndufan]

signed. Nothing else to say but I feel that he was there and I was not. Just a bit of film will not tell the whole story.

 

[thrasherfox]

ralnsplder -

Sorry to hear about the losses close to you.

Yes I remember about the 8 service members that found their wives cheating. But in my honest opinion that is a totally different issue.

The problem is when you are in a combat environment, you must and react a certain way.

Being in the military during war is about the only time you can kill at will. It is like hunting, but humans. and you have a license to hunt humans.

It is like any other animal on this planet, once they have hunted, it is difficult to change them.

You can in most cases raise a wild meat eating animal on kibbles and they are fine. but once you feed them meat, it changes them.

When you have killed another human being, you have crossed a threshold, a threshold there is no returning from.

You now know what it is like to kill another human being, and just like anything else, once you have done something, it is easier to do the next time.

Making our soldiers follow rules of engagement in war is not going to changed the fact that once they kill, it will not be as hard to kill again.

And if you take someone like that and bring them back to the states, they will always look at things differently.

If you take someone who has never killed anyone, and they get into a confrontation with another person, often their first thought is not to kill the person, however they want the conflict over.

A person who has killed someone will always know, and often think that they could just kill the person and solve the problem.

It is in out nature, all of us. But once you have killed in combat it brings that nature closer to the surface.

The movie Instinct with Anthony Hopkins for me hit it on the head. Everyone's safety is an illusion. We all on a daily basis walk a fine line.

You never know when someone is going to snap


5 Students Slashed in Knife Attack in Indiana

http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin....=EXCITE


Hunter Tells Police He Was Threatened
(hunter kills 6 people in the woods)

http://www.nytimes.com/2004....=EXCITE

Our society lives in a false sense of safety. Everyone walks around on a day to day basis on their little lah lah lands all fat dumb and happy.

So we have people snapping every day in the United States the way it is. What do people expect when they send someone somewhere and give them a license to hunt and kill others. It will change them forever and the person cannot turn it off, they might be able to subdue it, keep it in check, but they will always know if push comes to shove, then can end a conflict by taking a person out of the equation.

I had a wife cheat on me one time. I wont go into specifics but I had it all planned out on how I was going to remove the person from the equation. By the grace of God and a lot his love and peace from above I never did anything. But it was all planned out and to this day the guy has no clue how close he came to becoming a statistic.

As far as the hole world looking down on us (the United States).. they already do. That is why we should not have reporters there. We are going to screw up, people are going to make mistakes, it is going to happen. Why document it.. when things go bad there is a thing called damage control. I know you know that term. It is part of life and it is a big part of military life. It is difficult to conduct damage control when everything is being video taped

We are probably never going to win their (Iraqi's, Arab nations, Islam) hearts and minds. That part is a losing battle.

What will happen is we will clean up the yard, mow it, water it, cultivate it and when we are done the owner will put up a fence that says stay out.

No matter what we do Arabs will always look down upon Christians and since the United States was founded on Christianity, the United States will always be looked down upon by Islam, and by the Arab Nations as a whole. Not trying to be judgmental, just stating fact. I don’t have anything against Arabs or Islam. I just kind of wish they would stop hating us so much. It makes it difficult to be a Christian and have forgiveness in my heart when I have a group of people keep throwing the great crusades in my face when I wasn’t even there. And calling me the great Satan which I kind of take as a personal insult

They may tolerate us. But they will never embrace us.

If we do anything good over there, it is expected and we are only doing what we should be doing. If we do anything bad, we are the great Satan, and enemy to Islam.

Yes, there are bad soldiers, and I would never agree with allowing soldiers to torture, maim or just blatantly execute someone.

If this scenario happened and the enemy combatant was in a controlled environment and the video showed him on his knees with his hands tied behind his back and you see a Marine or anyone else shoot him in the head, then I would not hesitate to say the Marine should be placed under arrest immediately. And I would be the first one to do it If needed.

But I have seen the video, and I don’t think it is anyway near that cut and dry. And I tend to side with the Marine from what I know and what I saw.

So there you go… I know you have all missed my long winded posts

<!--EDIT|thrasherfox
Reason for Edit: None given...|1101350229 -->

 

[Charlesbusa]

Charlesbusa and I dissagree, but he actually hit the nail on the head when he said:

"The only rules that apply are the ones our own military/country/people uses."

Those soldiers who abused & tortured the captured prisoners got in trouble because they broke our rules.....the rules of the United States. What this guy allegedly (innocent till proven guilty) did violates our own rules as well, and that is why he is in trouble. But perhaps all the facts aren't in. Perhaps the soldier saw a threat.

Thinker62, you hit the nail on the head also

The Media is totally untrustworthy! I will stand behind the Marine unless he is proven by the military investigators to be wrong. I just hope the military isn't pressured into making an example of this Marine because of the Media attention. One problem with our country is sacrificing soldiers for public pressure. The Marine could be in the right and still get sent to prison only because of media/political pressure.

 

[Aughtsix]

I'm not so sure whether it's a question of Rules of Engagement as much as a question of Ethics, but as long as there remains any doubt I'll stand behind the Leatherneck...

God, Corps, Country.

Steve

I'll quote myself so I don't raise any hackles, but I have a couple things to add.

1) Stop these silly comparisons between law enforcement and the military. The military is tasked with winning the peace. Law enforcement is tasked with keeping the peace.

More often than not, soldiers make poor policemen and policemen make poor soldiers - or better said, policemen by policy can't do their job in the manner that soldiers do theirs. There's a reason for this.

2) He should be held against the standard of what he knew at the time - period.

There's no damn way in this mans Marine Corps I'm going to criticize or try to second guess the actions of a Combat Marine since I don't have a clue what he knew at the time and frankly, to the best of my knowledge, none of you know what he knew at the time either.

Secure your rounds people.

Steve

 

[thrasherfox]

I'm not so sure whether it's a question of Rules of Engagement as much as a question of Ethics, but as long as there remains any doubt I'll stand behind the Leatherneck...

God, Corps, Country.

Steve

I'll quote myself so I don't raise any hackles, but I have a couple things to add.

1) Stop these silly comparisons between law enforcement and the military. The military is tasked with winning the peace. Law enforcement is tasked with keeping the peace.

More often than not, soldiers make poor policemen and policemen make poor soldiers - or better said, policemen by policy can't do their job in the manner that soldiers do theirs. There's a reason for this.

2) He should be held against the standard of what he knew at the time - period.

There's no damn way in this mans Marine Corps I'm going to criticize or try to second guess the actions of a Combat Marine since I don't have a clue what he knew at the time and frankly, to the best of my knowledge, none of you know what he knew at the time either.

Secure your rounds people.

Steve

Amen

 

[Racer 222]

Not exactly sure what to post good reading on both sides. I am and will always be a Marine so I will support that young Marine in the field. He is making split second judgements that mean the lives of his comrades or his own.

It is better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6. My best to the Marine and his family. I will also pray for our enemies, as I always have.

Semper Fidelis

 

[Thinker62]

Oh Thrash, you dissapoint me with that harsh post. You are very experienced with this board and very savvy. I have a hard time believing that when you started this thread, you didn't expect to get a lot of discussion. It was only a few lines, but I think that we both knew it would draw considerable discussion. And I will tell you something else. I thought it was pretty good discussion. In fact I actually learned something and changed my stand somewhat. I still wouldn't sign it, but I not better appreciate how the soldier could have perceived a threat and reacted appropriately. For that, I thank those who took the time to describe some possible scenarios.

With that said, I must take exception to several of your statements Thrash. First you claim that this petition is only about support and not about innocence or guilt.
it is just a petition in support of some Marine that is over in a combat environment risking his life and being shot at so everyone here in the United States can sit on their fat A$$'s and ride their Busa's and screw Mary Rotten crotch in happiness.

That to me is what this petition is about. It was not about innocent or guilty, it was about supporting a comrade, a son and might I add someone who is not a criminal. [/QUOTE]
Well I read it again and the guy comes right out and says that he does not believe that anything should happen to the soldier, and that is the petition you are signing....not one to support the soldier in his time of need. You also describe the guy as not being a criminal, which is an assumption of innocence.

I also have to let you know that we can support the troops and this young man AND still hold him accountable if he really did make a mistake. I have experienced the family situation that you described. I did have a very close family member commit a serious crime, one major enough to make every channel of the Chicago news. Well I supported him 100%. I helped fund his defense and attended every day of his trial in a hostile environment. My love and support never waivered. But get this right! I knew he was guilty, and even if I had the deciding vote, I would have also sent him to prison for a very long time. He screwed up, and as a man, has to be accountable for his actions. It doesn't matter that he is a close relative, and  it doesn't matter that this soldier is fighting for us. The truth is still the truth. Right is still right, and facts are what we have been talking about, not. I think that we ALL SUPPORT THE TROOPS. So I for one am insulted by all sugestion that those who don't sign "spit on him" and "go ride your Busa" comments. They were not only out of place, they are wrong. Nobody trashed the young man at all.

Then you say, Those of you who are in Iraq and Afghanistan, I respect your comments. If you disagree and want to say something negative about this Marine, then you are earning that right and I will respect your opinions.

Anyone else who wants to slam this Marine and has never been in combat and is not currently in combat, you have not earned the right to speak badly of a Marine fighting on our behalf.[/QUOTE] What the heck is that about. So you are cool if a soldier questions this guy's actions? Well if you read the threads again, I think one did. Secondly, whether we are soldiers in Iraq or not doesn't change what may or may not have happened. That is just ridiculas. And the last point again is that your claims that people here spoke badly about the marine is a bad mistake or a flat out lie. Some of us have questions and doubt. That is it. We are not the ones presuming innocence or guilt without due process. You are!

I am not angry here, but I gotta call you on this. If you don't want interaction and discussion, don't start a public thread like that.....send a PM to those you know will agree with you.

 

[thrasherfox]

Honestly.. I didn't expect the thread to take the turn it did. I received the petition in an email. I am familiar with the web site that hosts the petition, they have petitions like this often.

Yes, if a soldier who is over in the current theater questions the guys actions, I automatically give that soldier the benefit of the doubt that there is a strong possibility that that person probably knows more of what is going on, current procedures and measures than I do.

To be honest, I hold a TS/SCI clearance. I figure it isn't no big deal saying that here becuase my TS/SCI email address is on all of my unclassed email that is sent out and no one has ever said anything to me about it.

TS as in Top Secret. and I don't know squat. for one I keep it that way. I don't want to know anything, but even if I did want to know something I could learn more from watching CNN than I could from work.

And any of you in the military know what I am talking about

So with that said. A soldier who is in theater is going to know way more than anyone here. so because of that reality, I will listen with an open ear to a soldier is is in the current theater of operations.

But if a person is not in the current theater of operation, and never has been, the chances are I know more than they do.

So my comment was not meant to dig on anyone, or to put anyone down, it was just a hard truth

As for the rest. People in this thread and on other boards and other places have passed judgment on this combat Marine and for that I stand behind everything I said.

I am not angry either.. Just disappointed

 

[thesnake]

heheheh.... looks like I missed some fun while away....

 

[thesnake]

as a refresher for those with bad memories, im that liberal shidhead from MA

 

[thesnake]

ok point 1-- insurgents not in military uniform (contradiction in terms I know) are not governed by the GC



<!--EDIT|thesnake
Reason for Edit: None given...|1101433537 -->

 

[thesnake]

So forget all the tossing around of what happened and just look at what we all know:

 

[thesnake]

marines battle some scum civilians who are heavily armed.

 

[thesnake]

marines take casualties/ civ scum take casualties

 

[thesnake]

marine comes across an injured terrorist, health and intention of the terrorist cannot be know... well unless the marine has ESP.

 

[thesnake]

marine checks out terrorist to visit allah.

 

[thesnake]

what does the marine need in terms of support u all ask?