help the marine that killed the insurgent enemy
- Thread starter thrasherfox
- Start date
thesnake
Registered
it doesn't matter worth a hoot if they were 1/2 incapacitated, had no weapon, etc.
If I walked in a room of 500 injured iraqi's, I'm all for loading them up with shells rather than one american getting turf toe. We pussyfoot around everyday. One Marine takes action and the country is up in a huff. Hell give him a medal-- he probably did more to earn his than JK did...
snakes 2 cents.
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If I walked in a room of 500 injured iraqi's, I'm all for loading them up with shells rather than one american getting turf toe. We pussyfoot around everyday. One Marine takes action and the country is up in a huff. Hell give him a medal-- he probably did more to earn his than JK did...
snakes 2 cents.
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Cool, that is a bit of clarification, however, my point is that if the opinion of non-military personel like me isn't to be respected nearly as much as vets, why in the world would anyone want us to sign a petition. I mean if we don't have a clue what we are talking about, and we shouldn't ask questions, wouldn't both our positive and negative support be thrown out? Perhaps the petition would have more value if only veterans were asked to sign it.
Secondly, as the one with the most questions and doubt about this situation, I would appreciate the acknowledgement that I absolutely DID NOT pass judgement on this marine. I just refused to automatically assume 100% innocence strictly on the basis that "ALL MILITARY ACT APPROPRIATELY". I believe it is more than likely that some military personel will abuse their power and authority, and act innapropriately. Is this one? I don't know. I wasn't there, but neither was anyone else here. So if I base my opinion on the description offered with the post, it leaves me with a lot of doubt. I'm sorry. Getting beat up for wanting facts and trying to understand what is going on isn't too fair.
You goin for some post #'s Snake?
Awesome!!!!Well, it looks like the Marine will be acquitted and cleared of the incident. No more debate necessary!
Thinker -
If you are that curious about what is going on over there check out this link, has daily reports.
You should be able to get to it from a non military system
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/media-information/news-releases.htm
I will look and see if I can find any releasble information concerning the Marine for you..
Ron
Here is another link for you..
However I will admit being it is a GOV site, they will more than likely be biased. however biased as in they will probably no post information that could be against our best intersted. But any information that is provided I would consider reliable
http://www.defendamerica.gov/
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However I will admit being it is a GOV site, they will more than likely be biased. however biased as in they will probably no post information that could be against our best intersted. But any information that is provided I would consider reliable
http://www.defendamerica.gov/
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Thinker -
I havent found anything yet about the Marine. But I have asked my Intel people to see if they can dig something up.
I will let you know if I find out anything that I can release
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I havent found anything yet about the Marine. But I have asked my Intel people to see if they can dig something up.
I will let you know if I find out anything that I can release
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That is a very interesting website. Looks like a good source for anyone wanting to follow the action on a day to day basis. Unfortunately, it only details the action and didn't have any information regarding the conclusion of the case we were discussing.
There was a lot of opinion and very little fact given in this thread. I sort of felt attacked for asking questions and not blindly falling in line. Now that the investigation is complete and the facts are out, I am very happy that the marine is innocent, and I would simply like to know what the military findings were. After 70 replies I would think that a lot of people would be curious.
There was a lot of opinion and very little fact given in this thread. I sort of felt attacked for asking questions and not blindly falling in line. Now that the investigation is complete and the facts are out, I am very happy that the marine is innocent, and I would simply like to know what the military findings were. After 70 replies I would think that a lot of people would be curious.
Here are some other informative links
http://www.marines.mil/marinel....ocument
http://www.marines.mil/marinel....ocument
Make sure you read this one. Real short and brief but is pertinent
http://www.usmc.mil/marinel....ocument
Also Pertinent
http://www.usmc.mil/marinel....ocument
http://www.marines.mil/marinel....ocument
http://www.marines.mil/marinel....ocument
Make sure you read this one. Real short and brief but is pertinent
http://www.usmc.mil/marinel....ocument
Also Pertinent
http://www.usmc.mil/marinel....ocument
EXCELLENT
The first link verifies what what several of you said, and that is that some of the enemy fake dead in order to escape or to open fire on unsuspecting marines. That is a trick as old as combat itself. I totally believe that this happens.
The second link totally validates my points in this thread. I said that the description with the petition did not give enough information, and led me to conclude that some rules of engagement may have been broken (in this particular case), and that I therefore couldn't sign the petition without more info. Then there was all this debate about whether the insurgents are soldiers, and whether rules apply to terrorists, the Geneva Convention....etc. Well it seems that our own military believes that there are indeed rules. And from time to time, situations do come up that warrant a review. So for those who thought I was an A-hole for not signing, read the following from Thrasher's link, and you will see that there are rules that apply to our treatment of the enemy terrorists, soldiers, insurgents, combatants, or whatever we call them. THERE ARE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT.
POSSIBLE LAW OF ARMED CONFLICT VIOLATION UNDER INVESTIGATION
Nov 16, 2004
FALLUJAH, IRAQ -- The First Marine Division is investigating an allegation of the unlawful use of force in the death of an enemy combatant. The incident occurred in Fallujah, Iraq, during combat operations on Saturday, November 13.
This investigation commenced immediately when allegations were brought forward and is continuing. The purpose of this investigation is to determine whether the Marine acted in self-defense, violated military law or failed to comply with the Law of Armed Conflict. The Marine has been withdrawn from the battlefield pending the results of the investigation.
Based upon the investigation, the convening authority will determine the appropriate course of action.
“We follow the Law of Armed Conflict and hold ourselves to a high standard of accountability,†said Lt. Gen. John F. Sattler, I Marine Expeditionary Force Commanding General. “The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect the rights of all persons involved.â€
[/QUOTE]
Thank goodness the FACTS proved the innocence of that marine, and not just the signatures of a bunch of patriots who didn't even seem to care to know the facts.
Thinker -
As I mentioned before. One, it didn’t matter to me who signed or didn’t sign. I was just offering a link for people to check out in case they wanted to sign.
And your right, if anyone blindly signed it with out proper information, that is not right either.
So I never thought of you as being an a$$ hole for not signing it. or an a$$ hole for any reason
Second. as you see, I have lots of reference material that I read on a daily basis to keep up on intel.
My irritation that maybe was improperly expressed here and if I offended you personally I did not intend to. Was I had been reading so much stuff in the news paper and watching how much publicity there was and most of the media was effectively slanting the situation I felt in a negative light towards the Marine that I was getting very irritated that we have people dying every day and one Marine in a combat environment was getting so much negative publicity.
The one thing however that you did state in this thread that did bother me a little, and it was on the second page and it was very small, and really not THAT big of a deal, but your comment was
“You also describe the guy as not being a criminal, which is an assumption of innocence.â€
The only problem I have with that, is yes, I described the guy as not being a criminal and yes it was an assumption of innocence.
I believe in the United States and under our law individuals are supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
I believe the 5th amendment assures us our right to due process and all people that are brought before our court systems are classified as “suspects†until proven guilty by a court of law.
So yes, I was presuming the Marines innocents and I don’t think there was anything wrong with that.
And again I apologize if I offended you, I guess the only thing I can say is it is a Marine thing. Kind of like a family thing, if a family member is attacked physically or verbally your initial reaction is to usually defend.
The brother hood of Marines is really not understood by anyone but Marines. And when a Marine’s actions are questioned, right or wrong, my initial reaction is one of defense of my fellow Marine.
Might not be right, but as I said.. it is a Marine thing. So please forgive me if that is required.
As I mentioned before. One, it didn’t matter to me who signed or didn’t sign. I was just offering a link for people to check out in case they wanted to sign.
And your right, if anyone blindly signed it with out proper information, that is not right either.
So I never thought of you as being an a$$ hole for not signing it. or an a$$ hole for any reason
Second. as you see, I have lots of reference material that I read on a daily basis to keep up on intel.
My irritation that maybe was improperly expressed here and if I offended you personally I did not intend to. Was I had been reading so much stuff in the news paper and watching how much publicity there was and most of the media was effectively slanting the situation I felt in a negative light towards the Marine that I was getting very irritated that we have people dying every day and one Marine in a combat environment was getting so much negative publicity.
The one thing however that you did state in this thread that did bother me a little, and it was on the second page and it was very small, and really not THAT big of a deal, but your comment was
“You also describe the guy as not being a criminal, which is an assumption of innocence.â€
The only problem I have with that, is yes, I described the guy as not being a criminal and yes it was an assumption of innocence.
I believe in the United States and under our law individuals are supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
I believe the 5th amendment assures us our right to due process and all people that are brought before our court systems are classified as “suspects†until proven guilty by a court of law.
So yes, I was presuming the Marines innocents and I don’t think there was anything wrong with that.
And again I apologize if I offended you, I guess the only thing I can say is it is a Marine thing. Kind of like a family thing, if a family member is attacked physically or verbally your initial reaction is to usually defend.
The brother hood of Marines is really not understood by anyone but Marines. And when a Marine’s actions are questioned, right or wrong, my initial reaction is one of defense of my fellow Marine.
Might not be right, but as I said.. it is a Marine thing. So please forgive me if that is required.
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