I have questions,maybe you have answers. George Floyd & Karma

[Mr Brown]

Aren’t y’all exhausted?

Exhausted? I'm just getting warmed up.....

 

[Mr Brown]

The racial divide is long and deep, I think time will resolve it....it took a long time to get to where we are today, organisations such as the BLM movement are adding to the divide (IMO) it creates a racial divide in it's own design. As soon as any other "race" sees this they all say-"all lives matter too" as they all feel excluded as it feels to them as these are the only lives that matter. If any other race were to portray a saying such as "Islamic Lives Matter" or the like, they would not be looked at in favor and be shut down in a hurry.

I believe anyone regardless of who they are can have opportunities to better their lives if they apply themselves, we have very good, strong examples of this even on this forum, it isn't just because we own Hayabusas that there are successful people on this board of all races.

People can play the victim and stay in the "mud wallow" or rise above and move out of it as many have. The "mud wallow" is color blind but it is ever present. Police are always present in the "mud wallows" as more crime happens in them.

There are "privileged" people of all colors, money, fame and attitude make one privileged, birth right can be a factor but everyone in both our countries have the ability to gain higher education and therefore better jobs-there are many, many examples of people who have climbed out of the "mud wallows" and succeeded.

Sadly, we could discuss this until our keyboards wear out and there will be little done...the "big heads" have to get going and find a way to resolve this without compromising everyone.

So, what you're saying is that those who "play the victim and stay in the mud wallow" simply don't work hard enough to get out of it? Privilege by definition isn't earned, you cannot achieve it, it is indeed a birthright. Success is earned, privilege makes the earning of it easier. Everyone doesn't have equal access to higher education in the US. The very way education is funded assures that. Schools are funded based on property taxes, poor neighborhoods have less funding. Parents obviously want their kids to have better educations, so those who can afford to leave do so, which in turn drives down the value of property, lowering taxes, decreasing funding, and so on. Given that as you correctly pointed out, education is a way out of the mud wallow, why do we fund education in such a way as to all but guarantee that poverty becomes a generational cycle?

Also, to your point about police being present in the mud wallow because more crime happens there, could it be that more crime is noticed there because of said police presence? Therein lies one of the most basic catch 22 scenarios of criminological theory.

 

[Mr Brown]

As @fallenarch said earlier in this thread, BLM is poorly named, BLM2 would have been better. However, I suspect that it's not the name which some people dislike, so what it's called is less important than the goal. In my understanding, BLM doesn't seek to elevate the worth of black lives above that of other lives, rather it wants to bring the importance of black lives to an equilibrium with others as such equality does not yet exist. The house on fire analogy works well I think:

 

[Bumblebee]

I am saying that, everyone regardless of race has the ability to climb out of the "mud wallow" There are many examples of this...what they lack is the desire. A person can be the victim or start climbing, if someone has to get two jobs to afford school, it's been done before by many.

You are a very intelligent, educated man, and you earned your way to your achievements. I would certainly hope others can do so as well. I think just by our few conversations we have had, your moral compass is on cue and you would do what you can to draw them from the "mud wallows" and into their rightful place in society

As in "mud wallow" I don't only speak of the low income housing sites, slums and trailer parks but any place where people draw themselves into.

I certainly didn't know anyone of privilege growing up, the color of skin didn't give anyone I know any privilege. We were poor farmers who worked crazy hours and some of our neighbors who were poor colored farmers worked no more or less than we did to get the same result. But I will tell you this-we went over and helped those same farmers and they did the same for us time and time again without question. We went to school with these neighbors and held them in very high regard. And my dad being the "Archie Bunker" kind of guy he was stood shoulder to shoulder with anyone when it came to helping...I think he was really not an "Archie Bunker" but had the perception of being like him.

It may very well be the region I grew up in, and I agree 100% the US has a much greater racial divide towards the black community than we do here so I digress.

Police go where they are needed, if there wasn't a need for them in the "mud wallows" of the world they'd probably be else where I'd imagine...

 

[Mr Brown]

I am saying that, everyone regardless of race has the ability to climb out of the "mud wallow" There are many examples of this...what they lack is the desire. A person can be the victim or start climbing, if someone has to get two jobs to afford school, it's been done before by many.

Everyone doesn't have the same ability. It's harder for some people to get jobs than others, and now they need to get two? What about kids? Who's going to take care of their kids while they work those two jobs and go to school?
To suggest that people are poor just because they don't have enough desire to not be poor is a very dangerous statement. The same reasoning allows a woman's rape to be explained because she drank too much or wore a revealing outfit. It's called blaming the victim.
My point isn't that escaping the status quo is impossible, rather that the status quo makes it harder for some people to be successful than others.

You are a very intelligent, educated man, were you earned your way to your achievements. I would certainly hope others can do so as well. I think just by our few conversations we have had, your moral compass is on cue and you would do what you can to draw them from the "mud wallows" and into their rightful place in society

I absolutely do everything I can to help everyone be the best they can. I have a responsibility to help others as I was helped by many along the way. Part of my duty is pointing out the inequality in America.

I certainly didn't know anyone of privilege growing up, the color of skin didn't give anyone I know any privilege. We were poor farmers who worked crazy hours and some of our neighbors who were poor colored farmers worked no more or less than we did to get the same result. But I will tell you this-we went over and helped those same farmers and they did the same for us time and time again without question. We went to school with these neighbors and held them in very high regard.

How did that farm come to belong to your family? Who lived on that land before y'all? Racial privilege doesn't mean white people don't work hard, most do I'm sure. It just means that white and black hard work is rewarded differently.

Police go where they are needed, if there wasn't a need for them in the "mud wallows" of the world they'd probably be else where I'd imagine...

It's not that simple. Follow me here: Crim theory holds that crimes are committed all over the place, all the time. Some major, some minor. Police become involved with crime in one of two ways, observation or report. They have to be present in order to observe them, so they will see more where they are. Makes sense, right? So, officer A is patrolling in a neighborhood (mudwallow let's say) where cops know there's more crime, because they see more crime, and suspect B rolls a stop sign. Officer A, knowing this is a neighborhood where there is a higher crime rate uses this as a reason to stop suspect B and investigate. Meanwhile, over on the other side of the town (sparklyville let's say) officer C observes suspect D roll a stop sign. As officer C prepares to light up suspect D, they receive a radio call from officer A for backup with suspect B. Since A and B are in a higher observed incidence of crime area, officer C decides to give suspect D a pass, and goes to help officer A. Sure enough, suspect B has illegal drugs and is arrested, reinforcing the higher level of crime in mudwallow. Research indicates that people use illegal drugs at similar rates irrespective of demographics, so suspect D is just as likely to have had drugs on them. Point is that we won't know, because of the way response to crime works in mudwallow and sparklyville.

 

[TallTom]

Everyone doesn't have the same ability. It's harder for some people to get jobs than others, and now they need to get two? What about kids? Who's going to take care of their kids while they work those two jobs and go to school?
To suggest that people are poor just because they don't have enough desire to not be poor is a very dangerous statement. The same reasoning allows a woman's rape to be explained because she drank too much or wore a revealing outfit. It's called blaming the victim.
My point isn't that escaping the status quo is impossible, rather that the status quo makes it harder for some people to be successful than others.


I absolutely do everything I can to help everyone be the best they can. I have a responsibility to help others as I was helped by many along the way. Part of my duty is pointing out the inequality in America.


How did that farm come to belong to your family? Who lived on that land before y'all? Racial privilege doesn't mean white people don't work hard, most do I'm sure. It just means that white and black hard work is rewarded differently.


It's not that simple. Follow me here: Crim theory holds that crimes are committed all over the place, all the time. Some major, some minor. Police become involved with crime in one of two ways, observation or report. They have to be present in order to observe them, so they will see more where they are. Makes sense, right? So, officer A is patrolling in a neighborhood (mudwallow let's say) where cops know there's more crime, because they see more crime, and suspect B rolls a stop sign. Officer A, knowing this is a neighborhood where there is a higher crime rate uses this as a reason to stop suspect B and investigate. Meanwhile, over on the other side of the town (sparklyville let's say) officer C observes suspect D roll a stop sign. As officer C prepares to light up suspect D, they receive a radio call from officer A for backup with suspect B. Since A and B are in a higher observed incidence of crime area, officer C decides to give suspect D a pass, and goes to help officer A. Sure enough, suspect B has illegal drugs and is arrested, reinforcing the higher level of crime in mudwallow. Research indicates that people use illegal drugs at similar rates irrespective of demographics, so suspect D is just as likely to have had drugs on them. Point is that we won't know, because of the way response to crime works in mudwallow and sparklyville.

First of all my going to a venue to observe natural segregation isn't from personal experience. It's from all the sensitivity classes that require we go to understand that there are innate human tendencies that are nothing more than built into humans. Cultural origins (some men kiss men on the cheek as a greeting, but would execute a man if he were gay), physical consequences (deaf people prefer to sit with each other because they share sign language skills) etc. And yes studies have proven that it is in our DNAs to be attaracted by natural senses to whatever we segregate to. "As the song points out I like Big Butts and I cannot lie" A natural selection based on preference. We don't segregate because we hate, we segregate because we wish to seek likeness. It's easy to say that all humans are the same, we all just have different levels of melanin in our skin. To be so simple. Character, culture, age, origins etc all are part of why we segregate. You self admittedly said you segregate to other parents. How dare you be so biased against parents with no kids. You must hate them or something. See how a narrative can be formed?

So you don't like me to oversimplify using motorcycles. So we can stick with Mudwallow and Sparklyville.

We can move on to a few areas of common agreement. Mudwallow has a known and proven crime problem, while Sparklyville does not. Cops know with all empirical data collected that the majority of their budget and resources are driven mainly into the "problems" associated with Mudwallow. Would it be OK if a hobbit chose to live in Sparklyville because they don't want to live in Mudwallow?

If they did, would it also stand to reason then that they should not be subjected to a higher incidence of poor relations to the cops that patrol?

Would it also stand to reason that they would not be particularly keen on anyone that lived in Mudwallow decide to start cruising around in the streets of Sparklyville?

Lets stick with Mudwallow. Would it be better to have a cop patrol and area that he has interest in. Pick a cop that came from Mudwallow to patrol in Mudwallow. Hire 25 if that is what it takes. All from Mudwallow. They understand that community. Mudwallow would need to accept the fact that a cop from Mudwallow is better than a cop from Sparklyville. He is part of them That way if a cop from Mudwallow has to make an arrest or worse use deadly force, I shoudn't need to watch on the news how unjust that was.

I'm just saying, we have not once seen the outcry when a Mudwallow cop kills a Mudwallow citizen. Nor when a Mudwallow citizen kills a Mudwallow cop.

But those damn cops from Sparklyville, can't be trusted.



My father was a cop. In South Chicago. Back then they walked a beat. Not drove it. Walked it. I think he said it was a 14 city block square if I remember it right. At that time it was considered the center of black America. He knew every store, every alley, every bar, every face that was part of that community. He knew who made the best bread and cooked the best pot roast. He carried a gun and a billyclub. Knew how to use both. Never once had to draw his weapon, though he came close more than once. Usually from D&Ds. Those were the billyclub moments. He never had to use his gun, because there was no sense of lawlessness and the fuzz can't touch us mentality. They KNEW he could be all business. They called on him regularly. He has not one thing bad to say about how horrible the community he served was. He loved that job and the people he served. Then attorneys/politicians from out of the city/state/system came to town. Suddenly he was put in a car and had to patrol larger sections of town. They had radios now. Save money. Less cops, more patrol area. Changing the way that everyone was to view everyone else. It was not about preventing crimes by presence now. It became head to the latest crime that had been committed and try and get there in time to stop it or to pick up the pieces and try to figure out who did what. Despite them trying to explain that most citizens in his beat couldn't afford phones, (They used call boxes back then) it fell on the new deaf ears of the politicians. Prevention became a thing of the past. It wasn't the cops or the citizens that asked for that change. It was the new breed of "We tell you what to do because its about how we view fairness now".

Its gone downhill ever since. To what it is today. And I think this has been part of the systemic changes that have occurred. And the caliber of cops has become like the caliber of citizens. They aren't nearly as honorable as they used to be. Because NOONE is being held accountable anymore. Mouthpieces from the Cops Union protect cops and mouthpieces from the Organization of Mudwallow Equality Society protect theirs. And EVERYONE that are trying to live in a place like Mudwallow that aren't committing any crimes are getting REAL frustrated!!

I live in a place called Fairhope, Al. Most people won't know about it and that is completely fine with us. But most everyone will know about Mobile, Al. Its about 20 miles across the bay from us. My house was built originally by a black family fleeing the crime of Mobile. My next door neighbor was a Fire Chief in a suburb called Prichard. They are black. He lived here in order to raise kids in a good school system and away from the crime of Mobile. He eventually became the Fire Chief here. And has just retired. The city of Prichard declared bankruptcy and he got no pension after his 20 there. Now he can finally stop working. My neighbor on the other side of me left Mobile to get away from the crime. He is black. My most recent neighbor moved here from Montgomery. Left to get away from the crime. His name is Juan. 2 little kids. Only been here about 3 months. Just as the Pandemic started. Asked what brings him here. Wanted to get away from the crime of Montgomery.

Anyone is welcome in my community. It has low crime, good schools and a quiet clean life. But it has those for a reason. There is a reason why you see no homeless people here. There is a reason why kids from here get a better education. Better opportunity. Better outcomes. Its not about privilege or race. Its about culture and character. It doesn't require an expensive overpriced education to understand this, but yes there is an entrance fee. If you can't afford it, please don't ask us to reduce the price for you.

It requires knowing that we have a strong police force. If a cop has to come visit me (yes it has happened), they are respectful and kind and gracious. As we are to them. But 2 cars come for that "just in case" component. We pay extra for this. We welcome it. Yes I will not lie. We know what belongs in our neighborhood and what does not. Our biggest crime here is trying to keep the cars slowed down in a school zone. If anything that even remotely looks like it came from Mobile comes here to visit, it better find purpose because the cops know what the citizens expects of them.

They passed a city Ordinance here recently making it illegal for people sleeping in cars overnight on any public properties. Eliminated completely any cars parked anywhere overnight with a person in it. The only people complaining about it was the TV channel from guess where? Mobile. That ordinance still stands and NONE of my neighbors are complaining a minute about it. The homeless probably think its cruel of us to act this way. I guess we have to own that. Take a guess where the homeless are driving from. Take a guess about their demographics. Should I ask my black neighbors to be responsible for that? Or do you propose its going to be me because I am white and privileged? Let me go call my neighbors racist that don't understand Mobile's problems.

Sometimes things can be cruel. Both in Mudwalla and Sparkleville. But maybe just maybe it isn't really about race.

Damn now what can they do?

Someday we can discuss being homeless. I'll be happy to. I've been homeless in my life. I think I understand it enough. I promise you I do everything in my power to avoid it.

 

[Mr Brown]

Mudwallow and sparklyville in your analogy appear to be segregated. I never said where the people in my example live, and that was deliberate. You assumed the suspects were from the areas where they were observed, and that's not necessarily the case. Sparklyville and mudwallow are neighborhoods not municipalities in my example, they share a police force. The officers are expected to be impartial guardians of all the residents of their jurisdiction. Where they grew up ought not to matter, they took an oath to protect and serve, and that should matter.
While your anecdotal stories about your father and your town are interesting, but once again they miss the point. I'm sure there are plenty of people from your father's patrol area that would paint a less rosy picture of that time, and as you well know, your experience is not that of most Americans. The fact that the town was started by people who had the ability to leave their surroundings, many do not.
Cool stories though.

 

[TallTom]

Mudwallow and sparklyville in your analogy appear to be segregated. I never said where the people in my example live, and that was deliberate. You assumed the suspects were from the areas where they were observed, and that's not necessarily the case. Sparklyville and mudwallow are neighborhoods not municipalities in my example, they share a police force. The officers are expected to be impartial guardians of all the residents of their jurisdiction. Where they grew up ought not to matter, they took an oath to protect and serve, and that should matter.
While your anecdotal stories about your father and your town are interesting, but once again they miss the point. I'm sure there are plenty of people from your father's patrol area that would paint a less rosy picture of that time, and as you well know, your experience is not that of most Americans. The fact that the town was started by people who had the ability to leave their surroundings, many do not.
Cool stories though.

Name one city where a black person can't leave? Name one city where a black person can't live?

 

[Mr Brown]

Name one city where a black person can't leave? Name one city where a black person can't live?

Well, Tom, since you're going to continue to pretend that you live under a rock, I'll state the obvious, moving is expensive. Poor people lack the means to leave, so there's that Also, as previously noted, segregation takes two forms, de jure which is the legal aspect, and de facto which is reality. You live in Alabama, as you are well aware there are communities in your own state which make it very clear that blacks are not welcome. The fact that a man was shot and killed by residents while jogging in a neighborhood would be a good sign that folks like him aren't welcome there, but I'm sure you'll argue that it wasn't racially motivated.

 

[TallTom]

I'll state the obvious, moving is expensive. Poor people lack the means to leave, so there's that

Join any branch of the military. They can find a recruitment center. They pay to move you, house you cloth you, educate you and provide healthcare. For free. Plus a steady monthly income. If they are a minority they are also given preferential treatment for advancement in those services. If single parents they get extra $ and resources for that as well.

So what is your next proposed excuse as to why they can't leave any city that they feel they are disadvantaged in?

And I'm meeting a friend for dinner so I may be absent in this discussion for the evening. But this all still in Kindergarten. So there is plenty of time later to catch up. Or maybe while I'm driving or while she is peeing or something

 

[Mr Brown]

Unless you've been convicted of certain crimes, then the military isn't an option.

You see obstacles as excuses, which is unsurprising. These are man made impediments, describing them as excuses and knocking those who navigate around them as racist is both inaccurate and bigoted.
I really feel sorry for you, and others who are so filled with hate. You are among the most advantaged people in the entire world, and yet you're angry that black people want to be treated equally. You spend more time and energy trying to deny others the opportunity you have been afforded than it would take to better yourself further. You must really live a petty, miserable existence thinking about how to prevent others from exercising their rights as you do.
I live a happy, fulfilled life. I have a comfortable standard of living, have a loving partner and family, thoroughly enjoy what I do professionally, and am living up to my responsibility to help others live well.
I sincerely wish you the best, and if you have something new to add to our discussion, I'm all ears, but it seems all you're interested in doing is trying on the same hat different ways so to speak. It doesn't fit, and turning it around backwards or inside out won't change that. I've countered your argument every single time, with evidence you know is accurate, and you refuse to concede the points, instead moving on to something else and trying to make that related.

 

[TallTom]

Unless you've been convicted of certain crimes, then the military isn't an option.

You see obstacles as excuses, which is unsurprising. These are man made impediments, describing them as excuses and knocking those who navigate around them as racist is both inaccurate and bigoted.
I really feel sorry for you, and others who are so filled with hate. You are among the most advantaged people in the entire world, and yet you're angry that black people want to be treated equally. You spend more time and energy trying to deny others the opportunity you have been afforded than it would take to better yourself further. You must really live a petty, miserable existence thinking about how to prevent others from exercising their rights as you do.
I live a happy, fulfilled life. I have a comfortable standard of living, have a loving partner and family, thoroughly enjoy what I do professionally, and am living up to my responsibility to help others live well.
I sincerely wish you the best, and if you have something new to add to our discussion, I'm all ears, but it seems all you're interested in doing is trying on the same hat different ways so to speak. It doesn't fit, and turning it around backwards or inside out won't change that. I've countered your argument every single time, with evidence you know is accurate, and you refuse to concede the points, instead moving on to something else and trying to make that related.

Absolutely no anger at all in my exchange. Nothing triggered. Etc Etc Etc all of the other usual exit strategies. I have never suggested you live under a rock etc. Thats on you sir. No rioting from me here.

OK so we have a wrap sheet. Yes that possibly takes away that option. So next, why can't they volunteer for missionary work? Any church would be glad to give a chance to someone wanting to make a better life away from their disadvantaged city. Again, they will cover all expenses.

Your proposed excuse.....errr obstacle for that option is?

I assure you this is no exit plan. This hasn't even finished the list of options as to how they get out.

But I am about to go out to dinner so I may disengaged for a time. If I get lucky with dinner it won't be until tomorrow.

 

[Mythos]

I know I checked out on this discussion about 5 pages ago but may I make a quick interjection, please?

I'm seeing this us/them, mine/yours mentality on both sides. My view is that there's not supposed to be sides when it comes to racial background. Having sides means not equal, not the same. I think that's a problem. It should be us/ours.

The other problem is the issue of poverty, not race. Our inner cities residents (largely populated by blacks) are victims of intergenerational poverty and we're talking like up to 5 maybe even 6 generations all alive right now all living in poverty all on food stamps all can't find a job because they haven't had the values taught to them by their parents to begin with. All they have had is an anti-example of how to succeed in life. How does one get out of that? How do you help people of all colors out of that sh!thole? I was there, I got out but that's because I had parents who taught me the right way to be.

 

[Mr Brown]

Absolutely no anger at all in my exchange. Nothing triggered. Etc Etc Etc all of the other usual exit strategies. I have never suggested you live under a rock etc. Thats on you sir. No rioting from me here.

OK so we have a wrap sheet. Yes that possibly takes away that option. So next, why can't they volunteer for missionary work? Any church would be glad to give a chance to someone wanting to make a better life away from their disadvantaged city. Again, they will cover all expenses.

Your proposed excuse.....errr obstacle for that option is?

I assure you this is no exit plan. This hasn't even finished the list of options as to how they get out.

But I am about to go out to dinner so I may disengaged for a time. If I get lucky with dinner it won't be until tomorrow.

Rioting? Who said anything about that? One can be filled with hate and anger but not riot. It reveals itself in other ways.
Ummm, the obvious reason for not becoming a missionary is absence of belief in God....? You're not this dense, you're really not.

 

[Mr Brown]

I know I checked out on this discussion about 5 pages ago but may I make a quick interjection, please?

I'm seeing this us/them, mine/yours mentality on both sides. My view is that there's not supposed to be sides when it comes to racial background. Having sides means not equal, not the same. I think that's a problem. It should be us/ours.

The other problem is the issue of poverty, not race. Our inner cities residents (largely populated by blacks) are victims of intergenerational poverty and we're talking like up to 5 maybe even 6 generations all alive right now all living in poverty all on food stamps all can't find a job because they haven't had the values taught to them by their parents to begin with. All they have had is an anti-example of how to succeed in life. How does one get out of that? How do you help people of all colors out of that sh!thole? I was there, I got out but that's because I had parents who taught me the right way to be.

Things aren't equal, never have been, weren't designed to be. That's the whole point. Resources are unequally allocated along racial lines. Racial stratification was constructed as a means of dominance, we as a society are trying to find a way around it while it continually reinvents itself.

Non whites are more likely to be poor, so there is a racial component to poverty. Read the latest edition of "The Declining Significance of Race" by Wilson for more on this if you're interested.

 

[Bumblebee]

Everyone doesn't have the same ability. It's harder for some people to get jobs than others, and now they need to get two? What about kids? Who's going to take care of their kids while they work those two jobs and go to school?
To suggest that people are poor just because they don't have enough desire to not be poor is a very dangerous statement. The same reasoning allows a woman's rape to be explained because she drank too much or wore a revealing outfit. It's called blaming the victim.
My point isn't that escaping the status quo is impossible, rather that the status quo makes it harder for some people to be successful than others.

It's the same problem regardless of color these days. People sometimes have to get multiple jobs to get where they need to be, I don't agree with it but it is reality. My older son did it for a few years supporting his family-we helped here and there but he wanted to be independent.

There are many people who are poor who remain so just because....opportunities are out there for the motivated ones. Not everyone remains in the "mud wallow" some escape-we need to ask them how they did it. Not just people of color live in 'mud wallows' there are plenty of other races including white people who reside in them and fail to ever leave.

How did that farm come to belong to your family? Who lived on that land before y'all? Racial privilege doesn't mean white people don't work hard, most do I'm sure. It just means that white and black hard work is rewarded differently.

Our farm was founded in 1865-don't know anything before that but Canada wasn't a country until 1867.
I suppose the same way everyone else got their farms-in debt up to their eye balls through the bank. That farm is long gone, when the old man sold it, I went to the military. Our neighbour farmers who were black and others had no less or more than we had, we would often trade equipment and people back and forth to help each other. I wasn't privy to our or anyone else's financial records so really I can't say but we sure didn't feel any more privileged than anyone else.

It's not that simple. Follow me here: Crim theory holds that crimes are committed all over the place, all the time. Some major, some minor. Police become involved with crime in one of two ways, observation or report. They have to be present in order to observe them, so they will see more where they are. Makes sense, right? So, officer A is patrolling in a neighborhood (mudwallow let's say) where cops know there's more crime, because they see more crime, and suspect B rolls a stop sign. Officer A, knowing this is a neighborhood where there is a higher crime rate uses this as a reason to stop suspect B and investigate. Meanwhile, over on the other side of the town (sparklyville let's say) officer C observes suspect D roll a stop sign. As officer C prepares to light up suspect D, they receive a radio call from officer A for backup with suspect B. Since A and B are in a higher observed incidence of crime area, officer C decides to give suspect D a pass, and goes to help officer A. Sure enough, suspect B has illegal drugs and is arrested, reinforcing the higher level of crime in mudwallow. Research indicates that people use illegal drugs at similar rates irrespective of demographics, so suspect D is just as likely to have had drugs on them. Point is that we won't know, because of the way response to crime works in mudwallow and sparklyville.

I'd say that will all depend on what is going on at the time...if a police officer is assigned to a high crime area, he will naturally be more on the 'edge' than an officer who is not. My best buddy is a cop (32yrs now) and he started out patrolling a very high crime area (mixed races), they always assigned more patrol officers to that area as it won't if a crime will occur but when..

In your analogy, I don't believe it matter if officer A/C is white or otherwise as officer safety is probably the deciding factor. Race wouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor as to which call becomes priority.

Do cops make up things to pull people over "just to check" sure they do? Is it right, nope. Do I agree with them doing it, nope.

 

[Bumblebee]

I absolutely do everything I can to help everyone be the best they can. I have a responsibility to help others as I was helped by many along the way. Part of my duty is pointing out the inequality in America.

As I expect you would being who you are...and you have been a good ambassador.

 

[Mr Brown]

As I expect you would being who you are...and you have been a good ambassador.

I appreciate your saying that.

 

[Mr Brown]

It's the same problem regardless of color these days. People sometimes have to get multiple jobs to get where they need to be, I don't agree with it but it is reality. My older son did it for a few years supporting his family-we helped here and there but he wanted to be independent.

Certainly poverty is an issue, but when you take into account that non white folk are more likely to be poor, race is still relevant.

There are many people who are poor who remain so just because....opportunities are out there for the motivated ones. Not everyone remains in the "mud wallow" some escape-we need to ask them how they did it. Not just people of color live in 'mud wallows' there are plenty of other races including white people who reside in them and fail to ever leave.

Opportunity is reduced for all those who reside in the mudwallow, social closure theory does a good job of explaining why. I didn't take your terminology to mean any specific race, no race is completely immune from poverty.

Our farm was founded in 1865-don't know anything before that but Canada wasn't a country until 1867.
I suppose the same way everyone else got their farms-in debt up to their eye balls through the bank. That farm is long gone, when the old man sold it, I went to the military. Our neighbour farmers who were black and others had no less or more than we had, we would often trade equipment and people back and forth to help each other. I wasn't privy to our or anyone else's financial records so really I can't say but we sure didn't feel any more privileged than anyone else.

I was referring to the native inhabitants of the land where your family's farm was located. It seems that Canada has a difficult history with indigenous folk. While I'm not well versed in Canadian law, I do know for a fact that in the US there were legal methods in place which prevented blacks from owning land, even if they could afford to do so.

I'd say that will all depend on what is going on at the time...if a police officer is assigned to a high crime area, he will naturally be more on the 'edge' than an officer who is not. My best buddy is a cop (32yrs now) and he started out patrolling a very high crime area (mixed races), they always assigned more patrol officers to that area as it won't if a crime will occur but when..

In your analogy, I don't believe it matter if officer A/C is white or otherwise as officer safety is probably the deciding factor. Race wouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor as to which call becomes priority.

Do cops make up things to pull people over "just to check" sure they do? Is it right, nope. Do I agree with them doing it, nope.

Your buddy's experience is a self fulfilling prophecy to some extent. As you know, people tend to see what they're expecting to see. Cops are no different.
I agree race of the officer is far less important, I've held that position from the outset. In my example I left race out because it's a description of how a system functions rather than how it's applied.

 

[Mythos]

@Mr Brown when I went to a black neighborhood in River Hills north of Milwaukee to do inhome care I saw nothing but large numbers of black Americans living a highly successful and comfortable life. I don't know what resources they had that the inner city people lacked but I suspect it was a great family that instilled high values and had high expectations for their kids. I still found it peculiar that nearly all of the successful black people I knew lived in neighborhoods comprised of other successful black people. Nothing wrong with that but it looked like self chosen segregation.

Non whites are more likely to be poor, so there is a racial component to poverty.

I have seen this. It's mostly black people but it's also Latinos and Hmong and it does include a percentage of white people. The Hmong I have known have been quite successful. Many Latinos seem to do well by and large. Poor inner city whites admitedly have been so few I can't make a judgement. Look at family values among each of these groups. There's a correlation there. I have known black students who were highly successful in a very tough environment and I suspect it was because they came from excellent families. Lots came from atrocious family environments and those were the failures, sadly.