Last statement from a self-immolation victim
- Thread starter PandaNin
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I am not justifying child abuse but a tap (because a smack sounds much more violent) to stop the kid would be fine and called for in some circumstances. And yes the wedding ring is probably the culprit.
I was never touched as a child. My mother gave me a tap (not even a spanking really) a time or two but never a spanking nor was I ever grounded. I do not condone abuse but I have seen some kids that needs to just be put over a knee... My little cousins (9, 7, 5) are the kids I am referring to
. They do some horrendous things I would never have dreamed of as a kid. I guess thats how being a only child goes 
Then again since the age of 1 my mother was the only one raising me working 3 jobs because she never asked for child support and my father never gave any (my mother's choice)
cqt1414
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this is the thing that annoys me more than anything else. we have a class of people who are professional-system-abusers. they put forth tremendous effort to get everything for free and avoid work, sometimes these people are citizens, sometimes they are not. the amount of fraud in this country is growing and putting enormous stain on the system. all on the back of working taxpayer.
Silent Shogun
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Its becoming the norm is the sad part. People try to justify why they milk the system when it is not being utilized how it was intended.
Working as a contractor over seas i knew people coming back and going on unemployment! They asked me how much I was getting and I told them i didn't apply and they were shocked. I told them i don't take handouts unless it was a last resort. Thire response was that unemployment came from there checks they paid into. They just got done making 6 figs a year. And no matter what you pay into unemployment you are getting back 10X what you paid into it...so NO you are not "Getting back what you paid". I have seen other seasonal workers do this. They work 24 weeks out of the year then go on unemployment. Not that they can't find another job, just that they want to play. That is abuse. Unemployment should be if you can't work...not because you don't want to.
Anyways..thread jack..apologies.
Subject at hand. There are more deadbeat dads out there.....doesn't mean the system doesn't need to be reformed.
There was an article in Maxim years back about a guy who found out after 3 years the kid wasn't his. After a divorce the judge said the guy still had to pay child support since he was now the kids father by default since he was taking care of her until this point. Even though the woman was now living with the real father of the kid after the divorce. This is where it gets good. The woman left the Real father with the kids and disappeared.....The judge said he now had to pay child support to the Real father!! WTF! I don't know if this was all true, but Maxim wrote it up like a documentary. They had an interview with the guy and how he had found a National Org for Men that helps fight things like this.
Actually the Ban never crossed my mind and for me very uninterested in that. This thread however is going pretty much as I had anticipated.
OMG. this guy was actually intelligent. he did alot of research to put that paper together. i agree with most of what he is saying. unfortunately his actions and the actions he asks of us men are unthinkable. i could never set fire to anything, much less a structure with life inside. man o man.
i have an uncle that got taken to the cleaners by divorce along with a friend or 2. i truely believe that the courts still completely favor the woman. she gets what she wants, when she wants it, and how she wants it. hell the courts ordered one of my friends to change the oil in his ex-wifes car for 3 years after the divorce...wtf kinda ruling is that?
i have an uncle that got taken to the cleaners by divorce along with a friend or 2. i truely believe that the courts still completely favor the woman. she gets what she wants, when she wants it, and how she wants it. hell the courts ordered one of my friends to change the oil in his ex-wifes car for 3 years after the divorce...wtf kinda ruling is that?
If it involves the Government its will involve stupid. DCS has to find a bad guy to justify a job even if it means destroying someones home or childs life.. can you picture how this world's going to be in another 10-20 years?
Heres a situation , A family member of mine was married , his wife left him for another man. 5/6 years later she take her first husband ( my family member ) to court and wants $$$$. She told the female Judge that while married she hurt her back helping fix the car, judge said ok and ordered my family member to pay $500.00 a month for 5 years..
as a father of a divorce...i am thankfull my ex wife was as educated as me and we both came to the understanding WE BOTH WANTED TO RAISE THE CHILDREN and due to distance someone had to have them 9 months a year vs 3. we agreed that we would NOT PUNISH the non custodial parent and make them pay for the other parent getting the PRIVLIDGE of raising the kids. we both worked...if something was needed and the custodial parent didnt have the money we would ask if the other could help. otherwise when i had the kids i DID NOT EVER EVER EVER CHARGE HER FOR SUPPORT and when she had the kids SHE DID NOT CHARGE ME FOR SUPPORT. there was alot less fighting and the kids were raised with no ill feelings towards opposit parents. the system is flawed and based on old societal issues... today there is JUST AS MUCH MOTHERS WHO DO NOT RAISE THIER CHILDREN WELL OR EVEN MAKE AN EFFORT TO GET A JOB. the system needs overhauled...by god dont tell me i am inferior as a parent just because i am MALE!!!
This guys thinking is right on target. to those of you who think its all mans fault and that there are more bad parent men out there then women...you are part of the problem!!! When i woman stays home and raises the kids she is considered to be a good house wife...when a man stays home and raises the kids he is a lazy deadbeat. Why is that????
women wanted equal rights but they cant handle what equal rights is all about!!!So now we have a new set of bs rules just for the women who cant really handle the equal rights! the court systems have been swayed towards females for a long time especially in divorce and family procedings. This is nothing new and wont ever stop till this country ends up in civil war.....not just for this issue but for the stupid local and national policy makers doing there own damn thing and we the people doing nothing about it till its too late.
On a further note....for those against violence.....sometimes thats the only way to get the point across!! All this peace brother bull crap is partly what got us in this trouble to begin with spineless bs!
VENT COMPLETE
women wanted equal rights but they cant handle what equal rights is all about!!!So now we have a new set of bs rules just for the women who cant really handle the equal rights! the court systems have been swayed towards females for a long time especially in divorce and family procedings. This is nothing new and wont ever stop till this country ends up in civil war.....not just for this issue but for the stupid local and national policy makers doing there own damn thing and we the people doing nothing about it till its too late.
On a further note....for those against violence.....sometimes thats the only way to get the point across!! All this peace brother bull crap is partly what got us in this trouble to begin with spineless bs!
VENT COMPLETE
Ok, a guy's dog poops in his car so he smacks him. The .Org attacks him.
A few days later the .Org defends and makes excuses for a guy who smacks his 4 year old for licking his hand and splits her lip. Well at least her gave her 3 verbal warnings!
So would it have been ok to bust his dogs chops open for licking his hand? Provided of course if he gave the dog 3 verbal warnings.
This guy is closer to a lunatic than the average cheeseburger eater he professes to be. Evidenced by the fact he set himself on fire.
I like the closing paragraph of his Manifesto.
I have three things to say to my children. First, Daddy loves you. That's why I'm scarring you for life by setting myself on fire. Second, you are my three most favorite people in the world. To prove it to you I'm scarring you for life by setting myself on fire. And last, that you are to stick together no matter how old you get or how far apart you live. Because it is like Grandma always said. The only thing you really have in this world is your family. UHHHUMMMM Minus me your father, because I'm a now a charred corpse on the steps of the Court House.
A few days later the .Org defends and makes excuses for a guy who smacks his 4 year old for licking his hand and splits her lip. Well at least her gave her 3 verbal warnings!
So would it have been ok to bust his dogs chops open for licking his hand? Provided of course if he gave the dog 3 verbal warnings.
This guy is closer to a lunatic than the average cheeseburger eater he professes to be. Evidenced by the fact he set himself on fire.
I like the closing paragraph of his Manifesto.
I have three things to say to my children. First, Daddy loves you. That's why I'm scarring you for life by setting myself on fire. Second, you are my three most favorite people in the world. To prove it to you I'm scarring you for life by setting myself on fire. And last, that you are to stick together no matter how old you get or how far apart you live. Because it is like Grandma always said. The only thing you really have in this world is your family. UHHHUMMMM Minus me your father, because I'm a now a charred corpse on the steps of the Court House.
i'm not gonna sugar coat it, my mom broke a metal broom, a leather belt, and countless wooden spoons on my ass when i was growing up. did i deserve it? usually, but that's just how i was raised. different methods work for different kids, some need a smack on the ass to bring them in line, some need a time out, it's all about your style as a parent. i'm going to do what's necessary to teach my kids how to be a healthy, happy, productive adult.I am not justifying child abuse but a tap (because a smack sounds much more violent) to stop the kid would be fine and called for in some circumstances. And yes the wedding ring is probably the culprit.
I was never touched as a child. My mother gave me a tap (not even a spanking really) a time or two but never a spanking nor was I ever grounded. I do not condone abuse but I have seen some kids that needs to just be put over a knee... My little cousins (9, 7, 5) are the kids I am referring to
Then again since the age of 1 my mother was the only one raising me working 3 jobs because she never asked for child support and my father never gave any (my mother's choice)
First i didnt see that anyone on the org is defending the guys actions. i read the whole thing this guy wrote from start to finish took me about an hour to get through it and this thread. People arent defending the guys actions. they are saying how his research and thoughts are sound and actually make some valid points.
Second if you read the whole thing you will see he isnt getting to see his kids!!! the courts and their bs have denied that. This is the primary reason for him finally killing himself!!! he didnt want to live life without being able to be a part of his childrens lives.
Lastly, kids need discipline now days same as we did when we were their age! Just because the socialist pricks running the country think they should be able to tell us how to raise our kids doesnt change the fact that the youth of today are nothing like the youth of yesterday! kids today have no respect, no manners, no drive barely at all, and most of all have entirely more drug, security,and depression issues then ever before!
Lastly again, the stupid comparison you made to the thread from the other day and the responses to this one shows you didnt read barely any of either. There is a huge difference between a troll starting troubles and a very sad and disheartened father baring his souls basically begging for help.
S4L
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Don't hate the teacher hate the system. It is required by law that we in certain positions have to report such incidents. If your child went by another teacher or principle and stated the same, that teacher could have been fired for not reporting you. If you would have killed/maimed your spouse/children, god help that teacher for not reporting you. Thank your friendly neighborhood lawyer/politician.
It seems to be in this country that the mentality is: If that teacher saves just ONE life, one life, by reporting one, ten, or hundreds of parents, then his or her efforts were worth it.
Well when I read comments like "poor guy, I understand where he is coming from, his smack was probably a tap, must have been his wedding ring, if it involves govt=stupid, he's actually intelligent, his thinking is right on target etc, etc. I see excuses in defense of his behavior. The same type of way a battered spouse excuses her batterer. The guy split his four year old lip, said so and "had to leave for several hours until things calmed down" Why and what was going on in that home that necessitated that? Think about it. His wife was compelled to seek counsel and it was so out of hand that they both felt he needed to remove himself from the situation. Maybe that's what was meant by being intelligent or his thinking was right on target.
He couldn't see his kids because he split his four year olds lip! The Courts B.S. apparently was protecting them from another split lip or worse. Yeah, He said he didn't want to live without them. That's the Big Lie of suicide. Truth is he was trying to inflict as much pain and suffering on as many people as possible, trying to teach them a lesson. His choice of methods reflects that. It is not and indication of a stable mind.
I'll agree that kids need discipline. I'll never agree that four year olds deserve split lips for licking their father's hand. If that makes sense then it's logical that four year olds deserve a bloody noses for splashing water on their father's arms when in the tub and a broken jaws for not eating their peas. Unfortunately the Socialist Pricks do need to tell guys like this how to raise their families. One way to ensure depression, security and respect issues in kids is to beat the crap out of them for every misstep they make. That's driving a wedge in a family not "sticking together". Unless sticking together means covering up and dismissing his abuse. In those situations the kids are probably using drugs and alcohol just to cope with having to endure in that environment.
My stupid comparison is this:
Two guys giving their one sided stories of beatings. Both felt they did nothing wrong and didn't deserve the consequences of their actions. Certainly didn't feel they were treated fairly by the system. Yet the conclusions that were jumped to, based solely on the perpetrators version of events were polar opposites. The dog whacker was labeled a POS and the child abuser was labeled a poor, intelligent guy that was wronged by the system and his actions were understandable.
I don't know, maybe it was his extensive rant that was effective enough to deflect repulsion of his despicable act. I'm just not seeing how he is the victim in this. The four year old was the victim, along with the rest of his family, not him!!!
I'm sure he was a sad and disheartened father, but in denial of why he was in that position. Blaming the system so he didn't have to accept responsibility of his own action. Baring his soul to deflect attention away from himself and on to the evil Govt we all love to hate. It's ironic how when the system doesn't intervene to protect the kids it's a fail and when it does a poor father that splits his 4 year olds lip is some how wronged by the system. Let's not forget she was four and licked his hand. That's not discipline, it's child abuse.
I don't care how this guy or anyone else packages it, IT'S ABUSE!!! Sad that so many can't see it.
S4L
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I actually think you are spot on Pardini. Some of what this man says, his actions, and his tone purvey a man with anger issues (among other things).
Warning signs include the downplay of a busted lip on a four year-old, which if it was as harmless as he made it out, I don't think a counselor would have been called.
His inability to mend with his wife and apparent vindictive attitude towards the court system rather than redirecting that anger and resentment towards a more constructive approach.
His "call-to-arms" attitude and setting himself on fire.
Seems a very obstinate man, though I do wonder how he and his wife had three children if this was his personality? I think it would have been discovered at an earlier point in time.
I'll probably be flamed for this, but hey its my view. I think it boils down ultimately to responsibility on BOTH parents. I think a person should more wisely handle who they are going to have children with and children really shouldn't be "oops" accidents, especially this day and age. One of the plights of man (as a species) seems to be our inability in youth to "make good choices."
Also on another note: I think the idea of abuse/hitting a child is a topic of hot debate and one that I will be on the "wrong" side of. While there is a lot of research on positive reinforcement and its merits, I don't think a lot of research, or beneficial research has went into the APPROPRIATE use of negative reinforcement, and its merits (for obvious reasons, one be the grey area and slippery slope). That is a huge issue though that will take a lot of debate. I think one of the keys here though is the use of negative reinforcement, not out of anger, but merely as a tool for teaching.
To set a simple example though, I don't like the idea of hitting, but it has its purposes. I had a puppy that pee'd on my bed three times, the first two times I didn't catch her in the act, the third time I did - one smack in the arse and she never pee'd on my bed again. I love that dog to death and that is the only time she's been popped
I also didn't draw any blood. However I felt this action was necessary in addition to the positive reinforcement of rewarding her for pee'ing outside. Anecdotal indeed, but still of relevance.
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I'm not in any way angry at the teacher. Your right it is the system. Years ago they would have called the house to speak and see what's up. Now, red flag!, and then a set of rules and actions go into place. It got scary quick and the woman from DCS and the sheriffs officer were very serious. But it only took one visit for them to see there was no violence or any problems kid related. Ironic that now the lady from DCS who came here saw the wife's spa chair and is now one of her customers.
It certainly sucks to be in that position. No one likes to be called on their parenting abilities. It's now a red flag because calling the house was ineffective. Spouses and children out of, fear, shame and embarrassment are inclined to cover up and hide what's really happening. A knock on the door and a face to face is much more revealing as to what the true circumstances are. The second red flag is when the person confronted flips out and gets pissed.
The system isn't easily understood by kind, innocent people, seems an infringement for sure. At the same time the good people can't come to terms with how, after the fact , that abuse can go on sometimes for years when Johnnie came to school with bruises, or the neighbors had previously called Child Services, he told the teacher, etc. and nothing was ever done.
Blanca, I would say the system worked in your case, like it or not. I hope it would also have worked in the event that your arguement had really lead to a trail of abuse.
S4L
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I too feel bad for you Blanca for being in that position - it would have caused me much anxiety. With that said, I actually probably would have fallen under the flipped out and became pissed category, especially if they were acting as if I was guilty until proven innocent.
I realize this would be untoward my own benefit, but I really do not like that kind of attitude or intrusion into my privacy when I know I have done nothing wrong. With that said, your logic is slightly flawed, some of the most sadistic and violent people have been the most kind and well spoken (i.e. Bundi).
I too feel bad for you Blanca for being in that position - it would have caused me much anxiety. With that said, I actually probably would have fallen under the flipped out and became pissed category, especially if they were acting as if I was guilty until proven innocent.
I realize this would be untoward my own benefit, but I really do not like that kind of attitude or intrusion into my privacy when I know I have done nothing wrong. With that said, your logic is slightly flawed, some of the most sadistic and violent people have been the most kind and well spoken (i.e. Bundi).
No doubt their are those whom are very good at slipping through the cracks. I'm not naive enough to think that any system is going to catch every psychopath. I just want to see the cracks made as small as possible, so know one has to live through he11 when all the signs were there but nothing was done.
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